I mean, if you’re reading any religious text from the premise of critical scrutiny and reason, you’re obviously not going to find any revelation. I suspect @zloubida@lemmy.world has a very different way of reading scriptures than you.
Not saying either of you are wrong, but you’re talking about so different things without really meeting in the middle that the whole debate is kind of moot.
Back when I read the Bible it was not with critical scrutiny in mind, I was actually seeking to understand it, But I can’t just shut off my brain, and if you don’t there are very clear problems, the four guides I had access to were unable to explain. Like why it is legal for a slave owner to kill his slaves, as long as they don’t die within a day.
My point is there is no rational reason to believe any of the fantastic claims of the bible. And doing so is demonstrably harmful, just like holding other forms of false beliefs without reason are in general.
I am now of the strong conviction that we shouldn’t have a state religion, and religion shouldn’t have special privilegies.
The fact that the Danish folkekirke was allowed to discriminate against women until recently is abhorrent, WHY was that allowed when we had clear regulation that forbade it?
They are AFAIK still allowed to discriminate against people based on sexuality, and there are stories about priests denying marriage based on sexuality or because they have been divorced. Since it’s a state church, their services are public services, but as an institution it does not abide by basic rules against discrimination.
Other churches are AFAIK also allowed to discriminate based on sexuality or gender, despite it’s clearly illegal, why?
My point is there is no rational reason to believe any of the fantastic claims of the bible.
I don’t think the other commenter ever claimed that or even thinks that. I think most religious people know perfectly well that religion is not a rational thing, but rationality is not the purpose of religion.
I agree with you that organized religion can be very harmful and we should work for a secular society, but dismissing religion because of facts and logic is like disproving mathematics via the word of God - its simply entirely different domains and perspectives.
dismissing religion because of facts and logic is like disproving mathematics via the word of God
Wow really? Superstition is equal to facts and reason based on evidence now?
Goddam and it’s the 21st century!
That’s exactly the mindset that makes religion harmful.
I never claimed people can’t have faith, what I claim is the illegal practices should not be legal, and it shouldn’t have special privileges.
Superstition is equal to facts and reason based on evidence now?
I never said such a thing and I don’t think you understood what I wrote. Try reading it again, and I’ll rephrase:
Dismissing religion from an atheistic point of view based on facts and logic doesn’t make sense, because religion is not about facts and logic.
Disproving mathematics from a religious point of view via the word of God is equally absurd, because mathematics does not deal with faith.
You’re trying to apply facts and logic to religion which is obviously a perspective that will not work (not saying you have to try to make it work or that religion makes sense, but just that criticising the Bible from this perspective doesn’t make sense).
Dismissing religion from an atheistic point of view based on facts and logic doesn’t make sense, because religion is not about facts and logic.
Again they can believe what they want, but where religion and “secular world” intersect, we cannot bend to religion when it’s contrary to more modern standards that are based on way better knowledge than primitive iron age standards.
You’re trying to apply facts and logic to religion which is obviously a perspective that will not work
Only to show where it does harm to others isn’t validated.
Any religious person that removes such practices can have my blessing.
But for instance the belief in a life after death, which there is absolutely no reason to believe is true, can be very harmful for the individual believers themselves.
I mean, if you’re reading any religious text from the premise of critical scrutiny and reason, you’re obviously not going to find any revelation. I suspect @zloubida@lemmy.world has a very different way of reading scriptures than you.
Not saying either of you are wrong, but you’re talking about so different things without really meeting in the middle that the whole debate is kind of moot.
Back when I read the Bible it was not with critical scrutiny in mind, I was actually seeking to understand it, But I can’t just shut off my brain, and if you don’t there are very clear problems, the four guides I had access to were unable to explain. Like why it is legal for a slave owner to kill his slaves, as long as they don’t die within a day.
My point is there is no rational reason to believe any of the fantastic claims of the bible. And doing so is demonstrably harmful, just like holding other forms of false beliefs without reason are in general.
I am now of the strong conviction that we shouldn’t have a state religion, and religion shouldn’t have special privilegies.
The fact that the Danish folkekirke was allowed to discriminate against women until recently is abhorrent, WHY was that allowed when we had clear regulation that forbade it?
They are AFAIK still allowed to discriminate against people based on sexuality, and there are stories about priests denying marriage based on sexuality or because they have been divorced. Since it’s a state church, their services are public services, but as an institution it does not abide by basic rules against discrimination.
Other churches are AFAIK also allowed to discriminate based on sexuality or gender, despite it’s clearly illegal, why?
I don’t think the other commenter ever claimed that or even thinks that. I think most religious people know perfectly well that religion is not a rational thing, but rationality is not the purpose of religion.
I agree with you that organized religion can be very harmful and we should work for a secular society, but dismissing religion because of facts and logic is like disproving mathematics via the word of God - its simply entirely different domains and perspectives.
Wow really? Superstition is equal to facts and reason based on evidence now?
Goddam and it’s the 21st century!
That’s exactly the mindset that makes religion harmful.
I never claimed people can’t have faith, what I claim is the illegal practices should not be legal, and it shouldn’t have special privileges.
I never said such a thing and I don’t think you understood what I wrote. Try reading it again, and I’ll rephrase:
Dismissing religion from an atheistic point of view based on facts and logic doesn’t make sense, because religion is not about facts and logic.
Disproving mathematics from a religious point of view via the word of God is equally absurd, because mathematics does not deal with faith.
You’re trying to apply facts and logic to religion which is obviously a perspective that will not work (not saying you have to try to make it work or that religion makes sense, but just that criticising the Bible from this perspective doesn’t make sense).
Again they can believe what they want, but where religion and “secular world” intersect, we cannot bend to religion when it’s contrary to more modern standards that are based on way better knowledge than primitive iron age standards.
Only to show where it does harm to others isn’t validated.
Any religious person that removes such practices can have my blessing.
But for instance the belief in a life after death, which there is absolutely no reason to believe is true, can be very harmful for the individual believers themselves.