Crappy writing <3
To be fair (while much of the writing is definitely shitty) they wanted to keep him in the school non-stop at this point because the people out to get him were becoming more prevalent and his enemies more powerful. So the intention to keep him safe.
But she probably could have directly said that. Most of the problems in the book could have been solved or entirely avoided if Harry would have listened to what he was told by Dumbledore and others
If Harry wasn’t a self entitled prick there would be no books.
Lmao truly though. I read these books again when I was much older and was just consistently pissed off at him lol. I know he was a kid but holy hell lol. He got a lot of people unnecessarily killed even
I know shes a bigot and hates trans people, but i do think people are overlooking the fact that this was a kids series. This wasnt meant to be read and deconstructed and analyzed by adults.
When I read the books as a kid I really enjoyed the world. Some things made me pause or think, but for the most part it was a fun adventure. When I read it again in college, I couldn’t get through the first or second book because of how poor I found the writing.
But again, it is a children’s book. I dont reread Famous Five or Noddy anymore either. I used to love the Redwall series, but when I went back to read a couple last year I found I couldn’t get into it as much as I did when I was 10.
Are they the best books or even the best kids books in the world? Definitely not. Is she a brilliant writer? Definitely not. But were the stories engaging and fun and did they give a lot of children an intro to reading and fantasy? 100%. They became popular because even kids who hated reading enjoyed these stories. She might be a miserable awful person now but that doesnt change what these books did for a lot of good people too.
Great teachers are constantly, and exponentially victims of overbearing administration. School administrators tailor to the worst, most immature parents who (I hope) don’t realize they are causing a situation where kids can run rampant and completely ignore their education. We do that because the school administrators aren’t there because they like kids or see the value of education. They are there because they have a high paid job that they don’t really need to work at if they can placate a small handful of very vocal parents and mostly keep up on paperwork and meetings. Those parents are going to figure out just how shitty they’ve been when their children get to college… College does not have to give a fuck. We’ve known this for a while. We keep removing rights from the teachers so that administrators don’t have to deal with any harsh situations. That might be specific to Ontario but honestly the sheer amount of people working in education here while people in need get denied access to the MANY programs we have makes me think like they’re just ignoring us and then bragging about having summers off and going home at 3pm.
I am not being harsh toward teachers. Quite the opposite. It’s those involved in education that have little to no experience in it that are clinging to cushy administrative jobs that I take big issue with.
What was her problem? She was badly-written.
“the ones I spied for weeks”
Words hard, apparently.
Genuine question from a non native English speaker here: what’s wrong?
We would usually say “the ones I spied on”. English is the only language I’ve ever spoken and although it sounds weird to not include the word “on”, I really dont see why its necessary either.
It’s supposed to be “the ones I spied on for weeks”.
“only reason the doom is not doomed”
he am good word man
I can empathize.
I’m a native speaker and sometimes even my words refuse to English right.
I think that’s just how British brain rot wording works. They all talk this way. Read some of their news paper headlines.
unlike those American headlines
Those last two are definitely intentional.
This implies that the students are insured in some way and that the legal system of the wizard world recognizes the same legal guardians of the muggle world AND that wizardy insurance companies are okay with students learning dangerous spells that can result in serious injury without guardian’s explicit permission, but does not approve of field trips to safe villages without explicit permission. Or that the crazy, racist, homophobic and transphobic J. k is also dumb.
100% this. The Dursleys have zero clue what’s happening there, and everyone knows they don’t care. These kids get into mortal danger every year and they don’t tell the Durselys about that.
Meaning that Rowling probably got screwed out of a field trip when she was 9 because of a lost permission slip, and this is her resentment embodied.
She didn’t want to undermine parental rights for, you know, reasons.
I did wonder why they needed permission from the people forced to let him go in the first place
In all seriousness, this is what happens when you write novels without doing any world-building and just put down whatever seems “fun”. The are sooooo many things in that series that make no sense once they are superceded by later plot devices. Rowling didn’t think any of it through ahead of time and gave almost no thought to internal consistency with previous content when she wrote new things.
It’s honestly a terrible series in most regards and it’s kind of disappointing how popular it became.
Also she a trans-hating bigot. Fuck J.K. Rowling. Can’t forget that part whenever discussing her or her work.
Yeah. There’s a fan-fic I read recently (also the only HP fan fic I’ve read) called “Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality,” which is set in an alternate universe in which Harry is raised by perfectly pleasant folks with an understanding of the scientific method, and arrives in the wizarding world and immediately starts deconstructing all the bizarre nonsense going on there. It’s very well done, but it’s really hard to recommend precisely because it does refer back to a ton of the stuff that’s developed in the books, so I had to keep looking up stuff I didn’t recall, and I don’t really want to devote brain space to that stuff. (Some of the “rationality” stuff has aged a little bit poorly through the replication crisis, too, though I’m a bit more forgiving of that since it talks so much about updating your beliefs.)
But for anyone who did read the books back when and was frustrated at times by the characters behaving so irrationally, it’s kinda cathartic in that way. For those who are interested: https://github.com/rrthomas/hpmor
By an author who is also crazy and problematic, though in a very different way than Rowling.
Oh, I didn’t know about that, but it isn’t hugely surprising.
I guess I should have mentioned this, but there’s a lot of stuff in the book that kinda seems like coded libertarian stuff, and it even flirts with pro-authoritarian stuff. It’s not a book I would recommend to kids or deeply uncritical people. That’s part of why this thread seemed like a safer place to mention it.
This is what I tend to say to people about Harry Potter as a series. It was the first series like it to become popular, and that’s its only merit. Overall it’s very tame and bland, but it got lucky and became popular. I didn’t like it because it was too same-y. After book 3 or so, I don’t care about Harry Potter anymore. Explore someone else that’s more ordinary. It makes a much better setting for derivative works, which to me as someone who writes textbooks of lore for RPGs is more important than just making a series sell well.
Rule of cool supersedes making sense. Yeah there’s a ton of nonsense, but you called it yourself, it’s fun. That’s all that matters.
Yeah, I enjoyed the movies I saw as a kid, but it’s so painfully mediocre watching it now. And that is before factoring in the garbage human who wrote the books.
Fun and atmospheric. Kids love it and that’s ok.
The issue I have with this line of reasoning is that there are equally whimsical, better written series that just didn’t have good fortune to pop off the way HP did.
It’s marketing. And cover art. And simple timing of fads. It sucks. And it funded a horrible person through pure happenstance
Horrible person?
I never met her actually. What’s she like in person?
Don’t need to meet a person to know they’re a horrible person. I know Orban is a horrible person. I know Chris Brown is a horrible person. I know Trump is a horrible person. And I know that anyone who defends them is a horrible person, for ignoring their horrible views and actions.
deleted by creator
Funny, I need to meet them first. Maybe you just like doing it more.
None of us have met you, and yet…
And yet you see a golden opportunity to indulge. Grasp it!
there are equally whimsical, better written series
Which ones can you recommend? I mean, my reading list is already too long but…
If we’re talking ‘young adult’ (which I think is a silly book classification group), the Enchanted Forest Chronicles by Patricia C. Wrede always gets my top pick—shorter, sassy, fun, with well-written female protagonists. (All her books are pretty good, really.)
Another of my top choices in the Fantasy YA category are the Tiffany Aching books by Sir Terry Pratchett. Great fun and Sir Terry’s wonderful brand of biting wisdom.
If you like the ‘kids go to boarding school, have magical adventures, save the world’ formula, Mercedes Lackey did a pretty good series called the Shadow Grail. Although the kids are older (and more sensible) than the Harry Potter protagonists.
The Castle Books by John DeChancie are another fun romp of a series. Younger me loved the idea of a castle filled with 144,000 portals to adventure. Although the technology in it is a bit dated—at this point in time, rather humorously so.
Gail Carriger’s book series are all a good read; my favorite she’s done so far is the Finishing Series. Not as much magic as other books on this list, but still a well-thought-out system. Her books are really more steampunk-fantasy with a sprinkling of magic on top.
China Mievelle doesn’t really write series, per se, but all his books are fun and well-written, with interesting twists and ideas. I’d say they are the very definition of whimsical.
If your requirements are ‘good books by authors as awful as JK Rowling’, well, that’s tougher, but fortunately David and Leigh Eddings decided to throw their hats in the ring! Horrible child abusers, but their writings are genuinely good, way better than what Rowling writes.
There are some great recommendations in other replies already!
IMO the best YA content right now is actually coming out of Japan (where they’re called Light Novels)
Some series worth checking out:
- Re:Zero - Starting Life in Another World from Zero
- Spice & Wolf
- Ascendance of a Bookworm
- World End - What Will You Do at the End of the World? Are You Busy? Will You Save Us?
- Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?
Don’t let the titles fool you (especially that last one). A silly title will often lead to a deep and complex story only loosely related to the title.
The first three I named are some of my absolute favorites.
And this is just the fantasy stuff. If you’re looking for sci-fi or rom-com, or something a bit heavier/darker, there are plenty more recommendations I can provide :)
Discworld
IMO there isn’t a whole lot in the kids/young adult space but The Magicians by Lev Grossman is good (and one of the few cases where the TV show is better than the book)
Not books, but the Misfits and Magic TTRPG show from Dimension 20 is everything that HP isn’t. It’s fun and whimsical and the characters are lovable and the writing is great and the world building is astounding and it never misses a chance to take the piss at the many problematic aspects of HP it’s satirically lampooning. I think the first episode is free on YouTube.
More than fun. It’s whimsical.
She’s a terrible person. I read the books to my kids but they are puarated so she doesn’t get a penny. Same for the movies.
What happens when your kids want to buy merchandise from a store? When they get older and decide to spend their own money on DVDs? What about the racism and misogyny these books teach to children?
If the worst you have to worry about your kids’ interests is whether they spend their allowance on things that somehow benefit an asshole person you are really very lucky.
Personally, I only prevent the one single worst thing that I can think of happening to my kids. As long as they don’t become Hitler, I’m happy. My son murdered and raped a family of 4 last week and is in prison, but I don’t think I need to worry about that because he’s not Hitler.
Sad you were down voted, because you perfectly summarised the awful place “it could be worse” inevitably leads
When they are old enough to make their own decisions they can. I’m able to seperate the art from the artist, without introducing them to hateful commentary that they aren’t able to properly process yet.
Not showing them Harry Potter does not mean they won’t be exposed to the media or the merchandise through friends and shops.
It would take a saint’s patience to stop the book at every racist moment and explain why it’s wrong.
Why not skip the books then? The movies were made by hundreds of awesome people while the books were written by just her. The movies cut out a lot of the controversial stuff too.
Because reading the books is a good educational experience for kids. I don’t allow them watch the movies until the books are read. Movies can miss nuance and have less information and world building. There is racism and bigotry and horrible things happening in life. I explain it to my kids at appropriate times.
When I first discussed the holocaust(very broadly), for example, they didn’t understand why someone would hate others for religion only, as religion is not important to us. Nor was it a good reason to not like someone from their understanding. They understand simpler concepts like absolute good and absolute evil. Goodies and baddies. More complex topics like themes in Harry Potter books being problematic is beyond their understanding completely.
Other books with good themes but problematic authors or themes include Enders Game, starship troopers, religious texts. Authors include Neil Gaiman, Sylvia Plath, Virginia Woolf, Dr Seuss, Enid blyton, Shakespeare, Stephanie Meyer, etc etc
That doesn’t make the books useless. Rhoal Dahl has problematic parts. Rhoal Dahl was also racist. That doesn’t mean we skip Charlie and the chocolate factory.
All true, though i still found it fun to read when the books came out. At that age my critical thinking skills were not as developed yet, and since that age group is the intended target audience the popularity is not that surprising.
Yes, I liked it too but I’m not under the false impression that’s it’s a genius work. It’s a kids book that kids like and many adults enjoy too.
She’s a hateful awful person. Many people are.
I mean, I totally get it. There is just better stuff out there and it sucks that she got lucky when otherr, better authors don’t
My theory, the first three/four books were written well enough, but the movies carried the rest of the series. She came really close to game of thronesing it too, but apparently average fans didnt mind the dieing baby voldemort in an all white train station ending.
Books 5-7 were awful in my opinion. I hated Harry through the entire last book, which I can’t imagine is intentional.
Book four was great. It was downhill from there as she couldn’t maintain the level. She also couldn’t keep it consistent. However, people were co paring it to literature. It’s kids books.
Way back, years ago, and if memory serves…
There was short story about Harry Potter in a Disney Adventures magazine one month and I think that was supposed to be all there was as far as the story. The popularity of it may have had JKR rushing to build a more in depth story and throwing anything in it that seemed whimsical and fun to a kid, regardless if it made sense.
The doom is not doomed.
Awesome guitar riff starts in the background
Im pretty sure its because they were trying to keep him on campus to keep him safe and used that as a bs excuse and he didn’t realize it until later cause he’s a kid. Idgaf about Harry Potter, haven’t picked up a book in 20 years, but I remember this.
Spot on. Sirius Black escaped an inescapable prison for the sole purpose, it was widely believed, of murdering Harry. The permission slip was just a convenient excuse to keep Harry protected.
RE: idgaf, you’re allowed, you know. You can love the art but dislike the artist. Or like the artist if you wish. I’m personally indifferent to Rowling but consider the Harry Potter series to be clever and highly entertaining. I find it much more engaging than The Silmarillion.
Also, people are too eager to cast judgement on each other, and too often forget that people have layers, like onions. Or a parfait. My dad was a Fox News, AM talk radio, Facebook propaganda cult follower whose politics were buggered beyond repair. He occasionally spouted racist or bigoted or otherwise insensitive bullshit. He was also a model father and husband, selfless, generous, kind, soft spoken, and loved by everyone who had ever met him. To know how eager much of the world would be to cancel him for his political beliefs breaks my heart, and I’m grateful he was horrible with technology, well-shielded from the summary judgement of social justice warriors.
She literally funds transphobic hate groups the fuck you mean to egear to cast judgment.
if my parfait or onion has a shit flavored layer in it, I’m throwing the whole thing into the trash
especially if that parfait then uses it’s vast wealth to make more of the world shit flavored
I find it much more engaging than The Silmarillion.
That is understandable. Silmarillion is like a collection of extended footnotes and a cosmology rulebook.
talk about reaching deep to find that strawman
Yes, as there was a killer on the loose, suspected to be super crazy and in the area. In which case, would it be safe for the other kids?
It’s not logical whichever way you look at it.
It’s because they thought Black was going for retribution on Harry so they probably figured that he was largely laser focused on him. Though he did blow up a bunch of folks in their eyes so that logic doesnt really hold water.
TLDR: Rowling dumb and doesn’t even think things through within the same book.
Yes, but they also thought he was a crazy psychopath, on top of blowing people up. So, still not the kid friendly environment that would be suitable, if logic is used.
But they are kids books, so it’s not a big deal. However, she’s not a genius author. She struck it lucky. Like many, she thinks it’s merit based, now that she’s a billionaire. And she uses that big brain to trample on the rights of others. If she wasn’t a billionaire, she’d be the crazy psychopath she wrote about (who in this case turned out to be a good guy in the books; she wouldn’t ).
But as an extra layer, weren’t Dumbledore and Co in on Sirius being framed? I thought it was low key known that Sirius “being a bad guy” was just Ministry propaganda or whatever.
His legal guardians do not consent to him even attending the school in the first place, to the extent where he needs to be broken out to attend every year. But no field trip.
He liked a pro trans meme once.
You’d think a woman who can literally transform into an animal would be pro-trans
She would have been if she wasn’t written by a massive piece of shit.
looks like the magic world’s lawyers were just as bad as their muggle counterparts, tbh.
way worse, in fact, when one reads about all the wizengamot proceedings.
The plot demanded a reason for him to stay behind.
Nearly. The story meant it made sense for him to remain safely at school. The plot had to take that in to consideration.
You and your reasonable explanations! We came here to be mad about the author!
