do you think any woman would pick a bad man if she could tell he was a bad man on sight?
Er, yes actually, I think there’s an outright fetishization of this. It’s one of the things that drives the enduring multi-generation popularity of the Joker & Harley Quinn characters.
Beyond the simplistic “I can fix him!” trope (which is a reflection of behavior that real people exhibit) there’s a kind of strange attraction that some individuals have to a person who does not generally display affection - they want to win affection from that person because it feels exclusive, it feels special, and that makes them special.
It’s part of why you see some people go back to the same bad relationships, the same abusive partners repeatedly (there’s also the sunk-cost fallacy).
You might say, “oh, but that’s just a few unhealthy people”, but I don’t think that’s true. These behaviors exist as tropes in our media because they are relatable to many audiences - which means that the behavior is fairly common, everyone knows somebody who acts that way.
Yes it’s a massive trope in media, we’re all taught it from a young age. DA is complicated the coercive control is a really hard thing to break.
Well, yes certainly there is evidence that domestic abuse behavior is often repeated by children who grow up in that environment, but that’s kind of an extreme example of what I’m trying to describe.
There’s an attraction to the “bad boy” figures. It’s deeply interwoven with the cultural experience of romance, and it’s more subtle than obvious examples of physical violence. If you are a woman who has felt attraction to Steve McQueen, or John Bender (Judd Nelson) in The Breakfast Club, or Han Solo, or if you were on a “team” for the Twilight series (or you liked 50 Shades of Grey), etc… you experienced this.
Aggressive behavior is frequently associated with perceptions of strength and dominance (not in the D/s kink sense, but in the being in control or leadership sense) which are generally attractive.
So to bring it back to the original, I don’t think it’s valid to simplify this issue down to just “bad men” being deceptive. Certainly that does happen, but reality is far more complex than that and framing it this way paints the women as only helpless, foolish victims, which robs them of their own agency.
The truth is that women do in fact pick “bad men”, not in ignorance or because they were deceived, but knowing full well what they’re getting into (when your parents don’t approve of your boyfriend and that just makes you want to keep him more)… this is bound up in thousands of years of human culture. There is absolutely need for change, but… It’s just not as simple as the idea presented in the original post. People are far more complex than that, in their emotions, in their desires, in their relationships.
Hey, I wanna be respectful and ask before I give my two cents. I’m a supportive dude (read I was raised by not a terrible influence) but I didn’t want to insert myself into conversations where my opinion isn’t welcome.
Is it alright if I chime in? (Totally valid to tell me to fuck off, I respect the need for certain zones of exclusion)
Hi Yiddish! Your name made me smile. We are women only so please don’t comment again ❤️
🫡
Edit: lo ciento
Personally I’m extremely leery of echo chambers, so my opinion is yes, if you want to contribute to the discussion in a constructive way then do so.
After all, the only way to learn and grow beyond your own individual experience is to gain from someone else’s experience.
Counterpoint:
99.44% of Lemmy groups are male dominated (even the ones ostensibly about women). I don’t think the one single group that is women-only is about to turn into an echo chamber.
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Thanks for your input! Can you explain to me why you’ve focused on men in a thread about women’s safety?
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Thanks zero, just be careful not to derail things. Few adult men are murdered by adult women, but the rate is far higher for us.
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That’s not backed up by data zero, the murder rate is just higher for women.
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It’s really just two words long. Which one of them was causing you difficulty?
Tbh this popped up on my main page so I haven’t seen any rules and don’t make a point of checking the instance.
People forget this about lemmy. Instances are federated and your threads could randomly pop up on the Main feed of any instance, it’s not like reddit where it’s more clearly separated. In most cases the person likely has no idea that they are on an instance that is supposed to be woman only.
If you want to be exclusive then make sure to defederate your instance so it’s fully isolated
And now that you know the rule you continue posting.
And you wonder why women have issues trusting men.
Thanks for understanding Zero have a lovely sunday 😊
Snowflake.
Why so fragile?
Wasn’t most stuff they mentioned about women?
And not just in dating. There’s a cognitive bias when people look to adopt a dog. The most assertive/outgoing dog in the litter/group will walk over to check you out. People say “oh! This one likes me!” Nope. You just picked the most hyper dog. Guess who’s going to be a complete handful once you get them home.
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Hey mate! Just FYI had to delete your comment as it’s politics.
My bad
Not your only bad, mind:
There’s a better reason to delete all of his comments. They’re his comments.
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You mean someone who identifies as male and posts in a group whose first rule is “Women only …”?
Yes. Yes he is. He’s another man who’s either illiterate or so calmly arrogant he thinks rules can’t possibly apply to his pearls of wisdom.
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People also have a tendency to think they are better than they are. No lying is required to be bad :(
Oh, that’s insightful.
Or! And hear me out… Those men could just not be shitty.
Controversial haha
IKR? Sometimes I feel like I’m loosing my marbles because the conversations (like this one) are so far away from the ones we should be having.
Obviously, this person was right in calling out the problem, but I really hope we can have more discussions about root causes and solutions that don’t involve the victim/survivor just choosing better.
Edit: I didn’t mean to be critical of the discussions in this post. I was just thinking more generally
This is a clash as old as time. An argument between “the world should be like X” and “but the world is like Y”.
When I was younger I was on the idealistic (should be) side. A few decades of watching people get mangled by how life actually is, however, has me on the side of “be aware and be ready” (is) side.
The scars are on the inside.
I get that
One of my huge red flags is a man who hits all the high notes without any hints of flaws. This tells me it’s rehearsed and practised because I’ve never seen a perfect human being in my life, any gender, race, social class, etc.
Yep!
It’s always “pick better men” but also “give every guy a chance”. He’s just socially awkward, don’t fault him for that. Yeah he’s maybe stomping over your boundaries, being too touchy and ignoring you when you say no, but he’s nice and you should date him so he has a chance to learn how to be a good boyfriend. Oh, the nice guy you dated who didn’t take no for an answer when he asked you out so you gave him the chance he begged for turned abusive? Well, should have known better.
These are great points! I’d also add weird men being described as “must be autistic” which is just ableist. If a guy is creeping you the fuck out, then that’s not autism.
Pick better men but be perfect at it and never accidentally turn down a good dude. Just, be the perfect middle at all times, or you deserve whatever bad thing happens to you. Wear makeup but don’t care about makeup or look like you’re wearing it. If you can’t get a raise, it’s because you’re not being assertive, but if you don’t assert yourself perfectly, you’re a bitch who doesn’t deserve a raise or a job. Etc, etc. It’s that same tightrope and if you can’t walk it, no one will give you a hand when you fall.
Seriously.
Is it just me, or are the guys who say ‘don’t stick your dick in crazy’ the same ones bleating about how ‘if women would just sleep with incels, just once…’
I’m not defending the act of refusing to accept reality when a woman says no, but the problem is a lot of women find that behaviour charming. The sad thing is I’ve seen it work for guys before, and not because the woman feels sorry for him.
“The rug pull” is why I just gave up. Casual or nothing at this point. Feelings are a middleman.
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So many cases I remember of friends and even family members who got with a man who outwardly seemed really nice but turned out to be incredibly abusive. people think “bad man” has a look but that’s absolutely a myth
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I just got out of an extremely abusive relationship and I really don’t want this stuff showing up on my feed,how do I stop that please?
Hi rancid I’m really sorry you went through that and really glad you survived. Unfortunately the only way to do it is to block our community, I’d also suggest blocking !witchesvspatriarchy@lemmy.ca !feminism@beehaw.org and consider blocking the news/politics comms as well.
For something less extreme you can filter out keywords, but this is not a perfect technique; stuff will occasionally slip past until you add a new filter for that. Blocking is the only permanent solution, but it’s a pretty broad hammer.
