This is a worry for me. I opened an ebay.co.uk account in 2004. You had to pay for purchases via Paypal. I had all sorts of problems using Paypal and customer care was lousy. I started looking into Paypal and decided it was unethical. I opted out. Ever since, I have been looking for more ethical financial services. When I cannot find them, I just do without stuff.
Right now, I have allegedly ethical bank accounts with Co-Op Bank (UK), Smile Bank (UK) and Triodos (EU). I have a savings account with a community-run credit union (UK) and a prepaid debit card account through my trade union for online purchases (UK). This is good enough for UK-based activity. But I often need to send money abroad e.g. to charities in other countries or to support podcasts or creatives based abroad. I am asked to fund via USA resources like Patreon and I refuse. I want an ethical alternative.
I want to see each nation (or groups like the EU) create its own local resources and make them compatible with other nations via some exchange service that guarantees secure, quick, ethical transactions. I am glad EU is starting to do this, it is decades overdue. I guess UK will drag itself forward eventually but only after we get a government able to live in the here and now instead of the C20th like Starmer does - I suspect he has not had a new idea since 1995. He’s younger than me but his mental processes make him seem like my grandfather. Oh, for some young people in government!
P.S. Hello, Media Storm, UK prize-winning investigative journalism podcast. You are great but I cannot fund you as you use oligarch-owned Patreon and communicate only via oligarch-run Instagram or gmail - if you read this, set up some UK-based, ethical comms or funding account and I will set up a monthly subscription. I will email you about this using mediastormpodcast(at)gmail.com but I resent it.
The problem is the dollar. While international trade is in US dollars, US can dominate global economy. But Trump is trashing dollar and promoting crypto. How long will the dollar remain default currency? I think when dollar loses its value, USA economy will crash harder than any crash in history. Wheelbarrows of dollars will not buy matches. Will another traditional currency replace the dollar or is dollar’s fall a sign that the old system no longer works for any currency. How does economics function after money fails? Are we all going to have to use crypto? How does that work? I hope some expert in economics has worked out a plan. I doubt they have though, this is all unchartered territory.
When the same happened to the Zimbabwe currency - I have a friend who keeps a trillion dollar note in his wallet - they switched to US dollars. When the US economy crashes out something similar will happen.
I hope. Maybe Euro, maybe PRC’s renminbi. We’ll see.
I just wondered, give how US dollars is world’s ‘reserve currency’ (since 1944 Bretton Woods pact), how its crash might affect the whole of global trade (it must hurt more than failure of a national currency like Zimbabwe’s since it is a reserve currency and has a special role in the world). Will we get another reserve currency or has the world economy changed so much that we will get a new way of doing business with no reserve currency or multiple competing reserve currencies? I think we are in uncharted territory so its hard to predict…
I really hope that the EU introduces a global payment and banking system that is agnostic. I don’t want to be under MasterVisa’s thumb, and would prefer to keep the bulk of my money as Euros instead of American Dollars. Problem is, as an American, I can’t readily use Euros in my daily life.
Here’s hoping the EU can strike up a solution with Blue States, so that I don’t need to ask Musk for permission to buy anything.
So Europe is now saying what China and Russia have been saying for years? They gonna join BRICS next?
We got UPI in india and it’s amazing. You use it and feel like the rest of the world is living in the past.
Every country except US has an equivalent system tho.
The us has like 3 equivalent but not interoperable systems. They are all controlled by the same 2 people
Don’t let the Christians get up in there and dictate what you can and can’t buy with it
Christian conservative takeover of America is real
Yeah, that is what happened to DLSite. It sells Japanese media such as hentai, so Visa & Mastercard put a universal ban on their products, no matter the category. It is a 1st Amendment violation IMO, since they are gatekeeping an entire culture.
I can easily see MasterVisa banning European or Canadian merchants for the sake of a Trump Regime.
Please let’s think this ALL THE WAY: it is pointless to look for alternatives to the customer facing part if the backend still runs on US software.
We need European alternatives to the 2 American duopolies: Visa and Mastercard / Android and Apple.
Android is open source so any European company can just fork their flavor the same way Huawei did.
And there are alternatives to visa/mastercard but their local to each country: Cartes Bancaires in France, Girocard in Germany etc.
We also have MobilePay here in Denmark, Swish in Sweden, Bancomat in Italy.
But I am still dubious there is proper sovereignty in the whole stack each one of these run on.
Isn’t CB in France still running through visa/MC?
Nope, they just integrate visa/mastercard for international payments like most other European providers.
That was true, once upon a time. “Carte Bleue” is part of Visa Europe (which has been reintegrated into Visa. Inc in 2015) since 2010.
I’d love to see it.
Cashless payment is fucked. Using a phone to pay with? Sorry, only google wallet or apple pay, and in most cases only visa or mastercard. It’s only recently that that Danish “Dankortet” is getting support in those apps. Bit fucking late, but US led companies don’t give a fuck.
Samsung have their own wallet app, too. There are also a number of alternatives to Visa and Mastercard, but unfortunately, they are not as widespread or are limited to a particular countries banking system. In Canada, we have Interac, for example.
Yeah, but at least here in DK the banks have to “support” those wallets. And as far as I know, none of them do, it’s just Apple or Google. For reference the biggest bank in Denmark, “Danske Bank” also support Garmin Pay, but that’s for smartwatch NFC pay. (Also those products aren’t for plebeians like myself.)
I heard that Norwegians managed to open the Apple Wallet, so the iPhone can have an app that does it without Apple’s stuff :)
Yes it’d s called GNU-Taler, Chief
Try it, you might just like it ;-)
I really like the concept of Taler.And I hope it goes somewhere.
If anything, I’m really glad how Europe has stepped up and started cooperating more as a consequence of US actions these past few months.
The Chinese jokingly call Trump “Comrade Jianguo”, because of how his trade war has made China become more independent and stopped relying as much on American companies.
In the same way Trump’s latest tantrum seems to be good for the Europe.
Look into Wero. Only a couple countries and people to people payments for now, but should take off quickly as a universal Euro payement method
That’s the Trump bump! And it’s only been eight weeks.
Or is it hump 🤔?
Soon to be the Trump depression, but probably only for America.
If it is, it will be crippling. There’s enough misery on that country as it is; I don’t want to see people suffer even more. But then again, maybe a systemic shock rattles the building enough.
It’s about time.
I would love to have an EU bank card. Hope we get one soon.
Deny the money changer profit.
Take market share away from these parasites.
Too bad about crypto.
This is the exact kind of situation it was meant to deal with: finance independent of bad entities. But it’s such a dumpster fire…
I don’t think there’s a purer example of social media engagement hype, predatory capitalism, and disinformation ruining something neat so quick.
There is GNU Taler which is quite cool, but thats not really ready for use yet sadly.
Oh yeah, that seems really cool. The core premise is much more practical.
Yeah, money that expires is very practical
What?
Their very own FAQ says:
How to avoid digital cash expiration?
Taler e-money is issued with a validity period. One month before the expiration date, your wallet should automatically exchange any digital cash that is about to expire for new digital cash with an extended validity period. However, if your wallet is offline for an extended period of time, it may be unable to do so. Ensure your wallet is regularly online to avoid losing money due to expiration!
Their very own FAQ says:
How to avoid digital cash expiration?
Taler e-money is issued with a validity period. One month before the expiration date, your wallet should automatically exchange any digital cash that is about to expire for new digital cash with an extended validity period. However, if your wallet is offline for an extended period of time, it may be unable to do so. Ensure your wallet is regularly online to avoid losing money due to expiration!
Jesus, that sounds like a catastroph waiting to happen.
Depending on the length of the period and when that period starts.
People get sick, people get jailed, all kinds of events happen that can incapacicate you for extended periods of time
It really depends on the cryptocurrency in question. Some coins are much more credible than others. Lumping them all in together is like saying that the Japanese Yen and the Lebanese Pound are the same.
social media engagement hype, predatory capitalism, and disinformation ruining something
I mean, it still works for getting around Visa and Mastercard. For instance it can be used to make donations to various media piracy groups. It’s just that it’s so useful to scammers and many people see the technology as a whole as being one ‘brand’.
It’s more than a perception problem now, it’s a culture one within the crypto community (as far as I can tell).
Even if you treat the most prominent crypto as a utility, the sea of hype and speculation will affect you.
Maybe. I feel a bit out of the loop on “crypto community culture” because I understand that much of it largely exists on Twitter nowadays, and I don’t go there. Still, it is a functional solution for a money equivalent of encrypted communication.
Or Discord! And investment TV! It’s so cultish, it’s unreal.
I think this should be distinguished between “pure” crypto enthusiasts, in it for the utility, not speculation, which are probably like pink elephants now.
AI has a similar divide, where like 99% of the hype is on Twitter and TV with AI bros, but there are little niche communities messing with open weights, locally runnable models in a much more grounded way. /r/localllama used to be a hub for this (and there is a little branch on Lemmy), but unfortunately it seems to be getting strangled by Reddit enshittification .
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Doesn’t work when the valuation goes up and down like a yo-yo. You need same currency.
Unlike fiat currencies most of the credible cryptocurrencies have increased in value over the past 10 years.
Stablecoin is a thing. So is a system to control inflation.
The more pressing issue to me is the core premise: a totally anonymized but publicly recorded financial system makes no sense, especially when the user generally won’t grasp it. It’s just begging for thieves and scammers, and that’s what it got.
Monero exists. https://www.getmonero.org/
But if you can’t get rich, no one wants to buy it or use it. This is the conundrum of crypto.
Yeah, and that toxic idea has completely poisoned the well.
But you can use the technology behind it
Afaik, not really.
CBDCs & IPFS are a thing (even GNU-Jami uses it too)
GNU Taler seems to be a good thing to look into. Not a crypto currency but a payment system which preserves anonymity of the buyer.
Yay GNU Taler is very promising, but I fear banks prefer proprietary systems.
It may become widely used if there’s strong customer demand for GNU Taler, or regulation requiring an open electronic wallet. Most banks would probably be dragging their feet.
Money changer will always go this route hence why laws must be put in place to promote this.
Practically EU can’t compete with US payment networks but I think going open source would permit them to actually compete. Not sure if there is sufficient political will to get it done.
EU governments wasted decades of spending on EU and us mega corps… Same way Germany wasted decades to fund Russia…
EU using all that tech spend on open source and actually using that open source could really fuck american corpos while giving us an out from dystopia they are building
It has been a while since this appeared; I wonder if it picks up steam. Now or never?
