Pickup trucks - aka cars without visibility of their surroundings
But they need their guns in case a fascist government takes over and becomes a police state threatening to take away their rights and liberties.
Waitaminute…
They who have guns want the police state.
It’s all the lefties who haven’t listened to Marx who don’t have guns.
Are there stats for kids killed by these monstrous pick ups? Dodge Ram, hummers etc
I don’t know about lifted pickups in general, but the NHTSA recorded that there were 39,345 traffic fatalities in the US in 2024. So OP’s chart is missing a few lines.
- Traffic Deaths: 39,345 (in 2024)
- Killed By Police: 1,365 (recorded in 2024)
- Medical Malpractice Deaths: 250,000 (estimated annual)
- Preventable Deaths due to Illness: 44,000 (lowerbound annual estimate)
- Malnutrition Deaths: 6,762 (in 2022)
So, yeah. Our politicians, capitalist overlords, and a fucked up for-profit medical system are killing us all either by inches or just outright, at the rate of a combined hundreds of thousands per year. But ermahgerd, gunz!!!
But…but … but they need those guns just in case a weirdo tries to take over the government.
Or if a pants shitting reality TV ‘star’ goes full revenge mode when he becomes president.
Or if a child rapist, who is also a Russian asset, but who’s also the best friend to a proven and convicted human trafficking paedo blackmailer strolls in and overtakes the Whitehouse and takes his KKK mask off and hops in to being a full on fascist dictator!If any of the above ever happened you’ll be glad that the Gravy Seals™ had all those guns to stop it all.
Not that the above could ever happen. Imagine that, imagine if one of those things ever happened? Wow, Impossible!! Just impossible.
…hey, wait a minute!!!Unfortunately, Democrats (see: CA, WA) have been straight up banning guns instead of focusing on safe ownership.
Regardless of your political affiliation, you should be very concerned about the federal government using official state militias (Nat Guard) against the states and questioning straight gun bans.
The federal government should step in for state overreach, and the state government should step in for federal overreach. If the federal government is co-opting the state militia (and while some states have non-National Guard militias, some don’t), what’s the purpose of the second amendment?
Don’t wanna be a conspiracy theorist, wouldn’t it be a genious idea to split the oligarchy party into seemingly two distinct parties, with one side arming racist hillbillies and using propaganda to control them, the other disarming minorities and anyone left-of-center. Gun control is propaganda.
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”
-Karl Marx
There should be extra concern by now that Trump wants to “recruit external people to assist law enforcement” …
Effectually he’s raising his own separate militia so he can put them in action anywhere he wants and not be limited by the law where the Military/National Guard can not be used on American soil.The law isn’t exactly stopping him now
Right. And no one has raised their own militia to start the civil war. So guns or no guns, what’s the difference?
Also would be nice if people in the military didn’t follow illegal orders, like they are supposed to do. And turned their command on those issuing the illegal orders. Should take some notes from South Korea when they had that thing like a year ago with their president.
I mean we’re not at the point where we’re being forced yet. DC isn’t a state so… curiously, California didn’t do anything but i don’t know if they have a state militia
I used to oppose private weapon ownership over the time i have come to see that it is indeed an important tool to defend against totalitarian takeovers.
It is by no means a sufficient tool by itself, and people can manage to overcome a totalitarian government without in some historical examples, but often this meant a lot of bloodshed and ultimately gaining weapons through overrunning police/military sites or defecting army units.
What’s safe ownership and how can Democrats advance it legislatively?
- Fuck the Democrats, they don’t do what’s good for the country. Why the Hell isn’t Trump being impeached again and again and again?
- Safe ownership should not be a partisan issue.
I got downvoted elsewhere for suggestions.
Essentially, don’t outright ban guns but make it really hard to own one.
Option 1) Restrict 5.56 and other non-common hunting rounds: 1a) If you want to shoot recreationally? The ammo must be bought and used at the range. Any unused ammo must be returned to the range. Up to the range whether or not to keep a “cache” for members so that they’re not wasting too many rounds 1b) The individual state distributes those rounds and keeps records.
Option 2) Random safety checks 2a) The state enforcement may show up at your house at any time. You are required to rreport to the state when you will be gone for extended periods of time. If you didn’t previously file out of the country, you are allowed a small amount of missed calls. The state shall verify that your ammo is stored separately from your firearms and are properly locked. If not, any firearm not safely stored is confisticated. 2b) Every serial number must have a name associated and in a database with your name and address. You must report when the guns move and they must be with you at your primary residence except when you are on vacation. This is also subject to random checks. If you are found to violate this, any firearms not following this will be removed. Yes, I am outlawing storage lockers.
I fail to see how you think those draconian home inspections are going to be more politically tractable than banning assault rifles. I appreciate you taking the time to explain your (clearly passionately held) ideas, but I don’t think we’re looking at this issue at all similarly.
Sources for gun bans passing?
https://www.atg.wa.gov/firearms
I legally own and possess one or more firearms that I cannot sell or buy more of in Washington State due to changes in the law in the past five years. They “grandfather” you when they write these laws because they know it causes less uproar when they blatantly violate the Constitution. Which means all those guns are still around.
I vote Democrat because I’m not a Nazi but sometimes they make it hard, like when over half of ALL gun deaths in the US are from suicide (sOuRCe: gunviolencearchive.org) and all they can come up with is ban, ban, ban, and they just don’t give a shit that all those people wanted to die and maybe we should be trying to help people want to be alive.
Meanwhile, suicide by gun doesn’t require an assault rifle or a standard capacity magazine to accomplish. They don’t care about that, either, even though it literally accounts for most gun deaths.
I suppose a handgun ban and gun buy back program would reduce suicide deaths considerably. You down?
You know what would actually reduce suicide deaths? Economic reforms to stop the spiraling inequality and rise of oligarchs that makes working-class people despair in the first place. But that’s the one thing the Democrats appear absolutely Hell-bent on withholding from us.
How about people STFU about guns and start being down with that instead?
We lose 50k plus people to gun violence every year. That is close to a million Americans dead in the last twenty years. It is now the number one killer of children.
This doesn’t even take into consideration all the wounding, threats, violence, rape, etc. that is perpetrated because of easy access to guns.
Providing mental health service at no cost would be a great way to handle suicide, but it would still not solve the actual gun problem.
Providing better economical distribution and opportunities would improve crime rates, but it would not solve the problem of gun proliferation.
So you don’t really have an answer other than clutching your guns.
WTF is the point of even replying if you’re going to ignore every single thing I wrote?
Providing mental health service at no cost would be a great way to handle suicide, but it would still not solve the actual gun problem.
This is the most ass-backwards hot take I’ve ever read. “Addressing the root cause of the problem would not solve the problem; we must myopically focus on a symptom of it!”
Tools are not the problem – they can’t be, by definition, as they are inanimate objects with no agency. The violence itself is the problem! How are you failing to comprehend that?
Edit: I think I’ve figured out how to explain it in a way you people might understand: arguing that access to guns makes people kill is exactly like arguing that women wearing sexy clothes makes people rape. Your argument really is just the liberal counterpart to that sort of right-wing nonsense, and equally defective.
What part of number one killer of children are you not getting.
You have no answers because the only way to reduce child death is to remove guns from the equation.
What part of a million Americans dead in the last twenty years at the feet of gun worshippers is not getting through.
Your only solution is more guns, guess what we already have more guns than every woman, man, child, and baby in the US. How many more guns until we are safe?
The problem is violence is worse because of easy access to guns. Guns are literally the problem and we can see this in every country that does not have a ridiculous problem with gun proliferation.
Worse it is not just our problem. Mexico’s gun violence is also directly linked to proliferation of guns in the US.
There’s a couple things that are objectively true everyone needs to recognize for this discussion:
-
the prevalance of guns in america contributes to increased violence
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a significant part of this is a cultural issue, other countries have incredibly high rates of gun ownership without these problems (these rates are still significantly lower than the US)
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suicide makes up the vast majority of gun deaths, we shouldn’t combine these with other gun violence because they have different root causes
This doesn’t even take into consideration all the wounding, threats, violence, rape, etc. that is perpetrated because of easy access to guns
I’m not sure we can say this is because of easy access to guns, I can find major cities in the US in deep red states with lower violent crime rates than similar european cities.
I can also find cities in deep red states with higher violent crime than similar european cities.
Does gun prevalence play a role? absolutely, but it’s a complex issue and it’s just one of many many factors.
Providing mental health service at no cost would be a great way to handle suicide, but it would still not solve the actual gun problem.
It solves about 2/3 of it. But more seriously, banning guns wouldn’t solve the gun problem either.
We have more guns than people, a significant chunk of which are completely untraceable. You can manufacture a gun at home with about ~$300 worth of equipment.
So you don’t really have an answer other than clutching your guns.
I’d bet the person you were responding to has one if you’re willing to actually listen to them.
I am glad you can agree to reality as many people here cannot.
Crime rates belay the reality that most crimes are not prosecuted and even fewer end in conviction. It is estimated over a million women have been threatened by firearms.
The number of abusive relationships where one partner is afraid to leave because the other partner has threatened death with a gun is enormous in the US. Guns help perpetrate a ton of suffering that has nothing to do with convicted criminals.
If you grew up in an poor urban area you would know what it is like to duck for cover when you hear loud sounds. Countless millions of people live in fear everyday in the US because of gun proliferation.
Cherry picking crime rates when the laws are not enforced at all or are not applied evenly is not really proving anything in my opinion.
Would a ton of abuse, murder, suicide, and crime not happen without guns? The answer is an astounding yes.
Lastly the person has no answer because they believe guns are the solution to crime, fascism, and whatever other random problem they want to apply it to.
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You know what else would considerably reduce suicides? Universal mental health care
It’d be more effective too by actually addressing the root of the problem instead of just putting a bandaid on it
Americans are desperate to come up with any other explanation than their beloved toys being the cause.
Guns make suicide easier, they don’t cause depression.
Regardless of what we do with guns we need to address mental health.
The problem is definitely gun proliferation.
I agree universal mental health care would be helpful but I don’t know of any countries that actually provide this.
Off the top of my head:
Ok. You mean the ban of specific guns or types of guns. I do agree that assault weapons bans are troublesome, mostly because the people deciding what makes a gun an “assault” weapon don’t really know what they’re talking about. That said, I do think there are weapons that the average person should absolutely not be able to purchase. At least, not without formal training. Beyond this, guns in general are still available, and if legislatures pass these kinds of laws, they can be rescinded with the next election if the population wants that. While it’s not ideal for gun enthusiasts, it’s not like they don’t have all sorts of alternative options.
if the police can legally use a weapon on my dog, I shouldn’t be barred by any laws from owning that weapon too. this is the wrong direction to approach gun violence from
Unfortunately, Democrats (see: CA, WA) have been straight up banning guns instead of focusing on safe ownership.
https://theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1848971668/
Because most gun owners don’t want to be on a list. And they should absolutely be tracked. Even if the only way to get ammunition is at a range, where you have to leave all unshot ammunition at the range, or from the state directly.
Yeah, it’s just too bad that there’s no way to prevent this.
deleted by creator
HB1240 from 2023:
Liberals using a mental health crisis and late stage capitalism to be like:
Hey @miss_demeanour@lemmy.dbzer0.com, you forgot to include:
- Fatal automobile accidents
- Bullying
- Child abuse
- Food poisoning
- Diseases
- Cops
- Stress
- Work-place accidents
- Indoctrination
- Knives
- Ropes
- Parks
- Toilets
- Sinks
- Lockers
- Bleach
- Floor Degreaser
- Printers
- Flags
[You can add more by replying to 🧵]
Accidental drowning is one of the main causes of death for children.
- More children ages 1-4 die from drowning than any other cause of death.
- Drowning is the second leading cause of unintentional injury death for children ages 5-14.
- Every year in the United States there are over 4,000 unintentional drowning deaths. (An average of 4,345 unintentional drowning deaths occurred each year from 2018–2021)
I hate that you have to specify “unintentional”
- chatgpt (seriously why)
- dolphin rape
- being a billionaire with a submarine
- being a ceo
- falls
- falling boulders (I know of at least one that happened.)
- tripping over your oxygen cable.
6400 kids (10-24) successfully kill themselves every year in the US, and 2 MILLION attempt to
Bad timing for this meme. I do not trust the cops, esepcially not now. Correct course of action is to disband the police and create well-regulated militias (regulated by the people themselves, not the state). I see you’re from dbzer0, you should know that cops aren’t to be trusted.
Also: Dems really need to drop the gun issue if they hope to win an election, going “Beto O’ Rourke” every election isn’t helping.
Context: The moment where Democrats lost Texas Gubernatorial Election: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QR4mNrW0AlE
Correct course of action is to disband the police and create well-regulated militias (regulated by the people themselves, not the state).
The vast majority of people in smaller, more rural areas are 100% happy with what’s going on.
What you’re suggesting would mean that any time you’d drive through a new municipality/town/village, you’d have to learn a new set of rules and laws. You’d end up with “legal” lynchings in some smaller communities. It would be absolute chaos.
Nah, I’d rather not be toothless when fascists knock on my door to take my family to a camp because I protest and help LGBTQ people with gun safety and survival training.
I don’t understand how you people think asking politely to MAGA or racists or fascists for your right to exist is the to go about this. This is how we are here in the first place; they don’t respect you and prefer you to be incapable of fighting back
I’ve gotten to this point too. One thing that frustrates me to no end is the liberal commentators I hear “pointing” to things. Admitting that fascist policies are taking over. Admitting we don’t have any rights anymore.
But none of them have the balls to actually say what the only means of resistance is now.
Hell, they don’t have to even say it directly. But they should be screaming about what DOESN’T work.
The time for non violent protests and voting are at an end in terms of their effectiveness. The purpose of non violent protests and supporting left wing candidates now is not hoping those will “bring us back”. We are not going back peacefully. The purpose of them is to bring about organization and class conciseness.
Maybe it’s what “libs” need to hear to try to get them out doing something. Maybe they aren’t ready for reality. But I just don’t think we can afford people thinking that the system that existed before can be restored. And it shouldn’t be restored. It’s the system that got us here.
Faux News: “Terrorist with mental issues shot dead in their home after pointing weapon at officers.”
If only gun safety legistlation wasn’t invariably gun ban legislation. No thanks Democrats, I’m trying to actually survive fascism, not do everything in my power to be completely defenseless against it.
But guns… are bad.
So your mind is changed now, right?
And then everyone clapped?
Private sales don’t require a background check in most states. NICS is not available to private sellers. It is a crime to knowingly sell to a felon or otherwise prohibited person. But if they don’t tell you, and the FBI refuses to let you check, you aren’t committing a crime.
We need private access to NICS. Buyers should be able to conduct a check on themselves, and provide sellers with the means to verify that check. With the means for private sellers to know their buyer’s status (without reliance on FFL dealers or other commercial entities), private sellers can be immediately prosecuted: “I didn’t know” is no longer exculpatory.
Unfortunately, every proposal for such a measure is quickly shut down by Democrats.
Democrats want “Universal” background checks, which are completely absurd: If cars had “Universal” checks, you’d need to go to the DMV before you could drive your buddy’s car home from a bar. Their regular efforts to promote UBCs while shutting down private access to NICS tells me their intention isn’t public safety, but harassment of gun owners.
You realize that if the fascists come to your door a gun won’t save your life. Hell it’s the fascist who are going to come for your guns. People have said the Democrats are going to do it for decades and there are still more guns than people in the US. The fascists will have dozens of rifles, an armoured personnel carrier, and dozens more personnel, ready and willing to be deployed once they get into a fire fight. They will have professional training whereas you will have Call Of Duty.
Have you ever actually encountered a gun owner who was under the impression that they’d be able to fend off a military force with their single rifle?
Like seriously, think for a moment. Be honest with yourself. Have you ever actually derailed someone with that stupid fucking question?
well 🤓 it worked on reddit when I was surrounded by high iq people who also agreed with me so I can’t imagine why it would be detached from reality
Shrugs I’d rather choose to fight and die than piss myself in a corner crying about how hard it is.
You raise a valid point.
The solution to the problem you describe is through exercise of Article I, section 8, clauses 15 and 16. Congress could and should mandate additional training on those people described in 10 USC 246, for the specific purpose of recognizing and engaging fascist “insurrection”.
The several states have similar powers, and could act independently from Congress to do the same.
The solution to the problem you describe is certainly not “lay down arms in the face of the enemy”.
Your telling me the country with more guns has more gun deaths, wow impossible to predict.
This is statistically meaningless, you want to look at the violent crime rate overall, the murder rate overall, etc.
Like I can guarantee Minnesota has more freezing deaths than Texas. That doesn’t say anything about if freezing deaths are a major issue or not. We need a statistical analysis of total murder rate not raw numbers
You’re saying the US doesn’t have a higher homicide rate than other high-income countries?
No, I’m saying it does and that’s the stat that matters
And there’s probably a reason for that. Hmm, I wonder what it could be?
I’m not disagreeing lol, guns absolutely play a part
What’s killing our children?
A slave economy that stresses everyone and drives them to hopelessness. A carefully engineered school to prison pipeline. A broken culture that encourages anyone with the slightest bit of authority to mercilessly persecute those below them while ignoring any crimes committed by those above.
We have had guns for hundreds of years, guns aren’t the problem … hopelessness and aiming them at the wrong people is.
I suspect a conservative might believe that the “gay lifestyle” kills people through AIDS, and probably believe trans people are groomed and their suicides are a result of that, so they might view LGBTQ+ rights as leading to deaths, if I had to guess
Yeah. And they probably view guns as a way of protecting children, too.
I see a lot of posts that just completely don’t understand the conservative mindset at all, and imagine that explaining things to them like one would explain things to a leftist is going to work. There’s just too much inferential distance for memes like this. Sigh :/
you get it exactly, this kind of meme if anything works against our political goals, by re-affirming conservatives in their mindset and alienating them by failing to provide a rhetorical “bridge” that allows them to see things differently
like you say, expecting them to respond as though they already agree with you (and as if you can just shame them into agreement) is entirely the wrong approach
If you extrapolate from FBI data, 90%+ of gun deaths come from handguns. Banning handguns is a hopeless endeavor - there are two Supreme Court cases from 2008 and 2010 that effectively cement handgun ownership as a constitutional right.
You could try a couple pages out of the California playbook with the handgun roster and ammo background checks to make getting them and using them kind of a pain in the ass.
I honestly don’t know what you do otherwise to make dent otherwise.
