Sorry, I liked your comment and wanted to reply. But forgot to.

Communism (or more specifically Marxist-Leninism) is entirely built on the self interest you’re trying to recredit as the cause though. Its built on the collective interest of the working class against the ruling class.

My comment was not about failures or mistakes of socialist experiments after revolution or resistance. Vietnam is a good example. It has all but entirely lost its working class dictatorship since it’s revolution.

My comment was about how people ignore what militant communist factions are most successful at doing. They never attribute the Marxist-Leninist means of resistance as “communism” and only attribute to “communism” failures or criticism after revolution is obtained. Which is what you just did. Pointing to failures that Marxist-Leninist would also criticize and critique.

Imperialism of today (and of recent vietnamese history) is the subjugation of a nation of people under capitalist exploitation and occupation.

There is no “goal of communism” that is not fundamentally about overcoming that class struggle first and foremost.

And saying “of course they’ll fight against Imperialism” is niave. The ruling class of Vietnam worked with the Imperialist in order to maintain their privileged positions. And country after country without large ML resistance factions have failed to or have been unable to resist. Its is why Imperialist side with existing right wing factions within the nations they exploit. They share the same class interest.

You’re attempting to (or more likely unknowingly) remove class analysis so as not to credit the very means that give resistance groups the historical and militant resistance measures to overcome Imperialism. And there is no “second place” in that contest. It’s Marxist-Leninist factions in first place and there is no second place.

You can absolutely be critical of the different systems of governance that come after that battle is won. And a fundamental part of Marxist-Leninism is about criticizing those failures and learning from them in order to maintain a working class dictatorship under constant Imperialist threat (see Cuba).

And countless ML literature and has been written critizing the very things you brought up as failures. But that’s not really this conversation. Though I’m willing to have it.

The point is that Marxist-Leninist means of Imperialist resistance are THE means in which nations like Vietnam overcome Imperialist occupation. Not attributing that resistance to ‘communist’ is just ignoring the history of the last century. It is what communist (Marxist-Leninist) factions do.

Those are the types of measures that have been attempted for generations. It’s how we got here. There is no hope changing a system from within that is designed to serve the interest of the wealthy. That system will only ever offer temporary measures when it feels it is within its own interests to maintain itself. Social security and Medicare were not some idea FDR came up with to help the working class. They were fought for a pressured for by socialist, communist, and trade unionists literally taking up arms and threatening capitalist production. These social programs were an offering to prevent the actions that threaten to tear it down. They were an offering to the working class to prevent full revolutionary change.

But, here we are again. Hoping for another FDR without any of the material threats to capital. An entire generation of workers uneducated in the history of working class struggle focused only on working within the system and criticizing those that rightfully point to the need for organized (and often militant) labor.

Nothing will ever be offered by the ruling class without a threat to its structures. Nothing will improve without organized labor having the means to defend themselves from the state violence that will be used when change is being demanded to the system.

There is no tax reform that fixes these inherently contradictionary interest between the ruling and working class. Because there is no reason for that tax reform to be offered in the first place.

The electoral systems in this country is a means in which the ruling class defends its own collective interest. It is impressively good at doing so too. Even at times realizing that offerings to the working class are needed to maintain it. But that is only ever if it feels threatened. None of them feel threatened today.

So whether you’re a Marxist revolutionary, a socdem, or just a progressive dude that wants everyone to have healthcare. You need to learn what history tells us. History tells us that even simple reform of the system does not come about without that system feeling fundamentally threatened.

It is why even capitalism “reformist” like yourself should be in support of any form of working class struggle. The sweaty anarchist kids trashing ICE vehicles aren’t hurting progress. The protestors blocking roads and impeding capitalist production are not hurting progress. They are your leverage and should be encouraged and supported fully if you want even a crumb of reform to be offered.

Edit: I’m not comparing the mostly unarmed and unorganized movements of today to the past. But sadly, the sweaty anarchist kid today is where working class militancy starts and ends. It is mostly non existent and entirely unorganized. It’s why the ruling class feels no need to offer even the slightest reform.

Unfortunately, Fascism won because it’s controlling our country. Pointing to fascist and calling them out for cheating will not make fascist stop being fascist.

I’ll be honest, I haven’t looked into the election stuff much because I see it as an effort that goes nowhere. Even if I think it very likely.

Like, we’re black bagging people and shipping them to foreign countrys prisons. Like, if we can’t rally people around resistance to that then how are we going to make people care about election results in a system most people feel like has never worked in the first place?

Fascism is here BECAUSE this “democracys” structures are meant to serve the wealthy and ruling class. That’s how they were written since this nations foundation. This time it was just in your face so plainly because they realized they dont need to pretend anymore.

The people of this country don’t need election investigations to understand that the system is not democratic. They’ve felt that their entire lives in some way or another.

Trump made the ruling class of America realize they didn’t have to keep pretending the systems were democratic. Literally spitting on the ballots is not what brought us here. Its just the point we finally reached.

It’s intentional. The same reason that headlines say IDF troops are “murdered” but Palestinian children “die”. It’s the use of language to manufacture consent.

To you and I it’s probably become painfully obvious when reading headlines. It even, unfortunately, plagues good journalist in non-independent media who have their titles changed before publishing. So much so that you’ll have actual substance of the article explaining the opposite of which the title implies.

But, it obviously works on the population at large even if they aren’t really fooled by it. Sometimes all you need is to pacify the outrage of a population enough. I think that’s what their trying to do with Maxwell. I don’t think they’re stupid enough to even believe the MAGA voters will fall for this narrative. (Some will, but those are primarily those with cult brain rot or more importantly financial incentives to exploit the cult brain rot).

I think they are absolutely unafraid of any popular resistance. These people are protecting pedophiles for Christ’s sake.

I use to keep thinking that each new steel beam will be the one that breaks the camels back. But I’ve been thinking that for too long now.

Adorable

Absolutely. Sorry, I’m so close to this that I just forgot to explain. These are the things my coworkers and comrades got fired for speaking out against.

I would appreciate it you reread the first quote and the response you have in your above comment.

You quoted me explaining that supporters of fascist AREN’T all aware or even intend to support racial supremacists. Then told me, in not so few words, “I can’t be supporting fascist. I’m not not a racial supremacists”.

Can you see how you’re ignoring what I’m talking about and the point I’m making? If you can acknowledge that I’ll respond to the rest of your comment if you still want. But you opened your comment basically telling me that you are ignoring what I said.

Supports a genocide too. I don’t know if I count in that 9000 statistic. But a lot of us have been fired for speaking out against it too. Fuck Microsoft.

They literally went as far as restricting emails with the word “Palestine” in them. Would take sometimes hours to arrive or not at all. Anyone that spoke out had their entire profile wiped within hours of being fired. This is the equivalent of a Facebook social media profile. You can go back a really long time and see past employees profiles and posts. Not when you get fired for pointing out a genocide though.

They are actively supporting and enabling a genocide; and may history judge it’s leadership.

Do you think fascist think they are bad guys? No, they justify their material actions in the same way you are. Most supporters of fascism aren’t going to think “I’m doing this for the white race”. No, they justify the same material actions through other means. And people like you fall for it. They do this until their support and power is so strong they can claim their true beliefs.

When you say things like “caring capacity of the planet”. Like, that’s actually a realistic threat. I’m going to call it out for what it is. Just absolute pseudo science and anti-human shit.

Dude, the planet is going to become inhospital in most places for human life within the next century or two. Any talk about population is a mask for fascist to decide which people are allowed to live in hospitable places. And who they decide will die. You’re falling for some really dumb shit pretending to be scientific when looked at in a vacuum.

Eco-fascist stand their as a solution to the “hard truths” of climate change. Masking themselves as scientific and reasonable. They are not offering solutions for humanity. They are offering solutions for who they view as human and “leser than”. But they’re not gonna say that. They’re gonna say the same thing you are saying.

I understand you likely don’t believe in eco-fascist goals of eugenics. But that doesn’t mean you aren’t using their exact same playbook in what you are saying.

Even if your falsehoods were correct. They are meaningless unless your material goal is fascism and deciding which groups of people are allowed to have children (and really that just means which groups are allowed to live). Seriously. Follow this to its logical conclusion. You are verbatim using eco-fascist talking points.

There is not a gray area here. The intentions will not save people from the material events that will unfold to suppress a groups population.

They don’t make up their talking points to convince other white supremacists. They make up their talking points to fool people like you into believing they are “hard truths”.

If you find yourself often being called “fascist” and think “all these leftist just call everyone a Nazi”. Then I hope you come to the realization that what people are saying is that you are repeating fascist talking points.

Fascist don’t care if you believe in their race supremacy. They just care that you are just convinced enough to believe enough of their truths to not stop them.

I think you’d benefit from from listening to this short video.

https://youtu.be/0YFdwfNh5vs

Listen and maybe try to understand why the people that support “strong borders” aren’t exactly the same as you supporting “hard truths of population”. These are the same fascist goals. They are flexible in their lies and fooling you in the same way they fooled those idiots saying “build that wall”.

Eco fascism is just the version of fascism meant to bring well intentioned liberals to support their ideology.

I’ll assume that’s a joke. I will in good faith hope someone isn’t actually as stupid to believe that. But this thread has sucked all the humor out of me. So forgive me.

Does this type of conversation not exhaust you? Like, clearly I clarified that I had no intention to target the commenter in my initial comment. Can that not just be a misunderstanding on your part or a clarity problem in the comment on my part?

Like, you’ve had the purpose of the comment clarified to you. The point was to explain why I was concerned with the language.

And now you’re here taking screenshots and highlighting something I am not denying I wrote. I am explaining to you the intention behind the word I wrote.

Ironically, not offering me the same charity I offered to the initial comment when I ask for them to clarify what they meant. You could have been an adult and done that. But here we are.

I swear “debate lord” culture has rotten the brains of a generation. This isn’t a YouTube click bait video my friend.

There is no audience for our conversation even. No one would bother reading this deep besides you and me.

You are allowed to say your initial response was in bad faith (it was) and I’m allowed to say that I should have made my initial comment more clear (it could have been better).

But at this point you’re talking to one person (me) and trying to convince them they meant something they didn’t. That sounds exhausting. I know what I meant and what the intention of my comment was. I was the one who wrote it.

You called human-beings a virus. An ad-hominem is when you insult someone in order to not address their argument. Pointing out your language of calling humans “viruses” to be fascist is not ad-hominem. It’s directly addressing the language you used.

If you’re gonna point to logical fallacies you might want to know what they actually mean.

Now. I could have misunderstood what you meant. You were not really clear. But that language is literally eco-fascist.

Maybe Google their talking points. Because you’re repeating them even if you don’t intend to.

I can’t tell which is worse; your reading comprehension or the irony of you saying I’m the one jumping to conclusions.

Maybe reread the initial comment I made. I asked for clarification on what they meant because I DIDN’T jump to conclusions. Then I clarified why I was asking because that language around “population” is often used by white supremacists.

I never accused that comment of such things and they followed it up with a clarification. We had an adult conversation and didn’t make a childish comment like you did.

Maybe go read it. Because it seems like you might need an example of how to actually communicate with people around sensitive subjects without just straw manning what someone is asking and saying.

You can misunderstand my comment. That’s fine. That can happen. But you’re doubling down on your misunderstanding now and pretending that that’s what I “secretly” meant. You are being childish.

You’d make a great eco-fascist.

That’s not what I said at all. But, if you want to be serious. Even what you’re pointing to is not a simple issue and white supremacists do use “aid” and “education” as tools to reduce populations of “undesirables”.

It’s about self determination and independence first.

Those who come with wheat, millet, corn or milk, they are not helping us. Those who really want to help us can give us ploughs, tractors, fertilizers, insecticides, watering cans, drills and dams. That is how we would define food aid.

-Thomas Sankara

Western powers rarely have good intentions for their “aid” and is more often than not a tool to keep populations in the third world dependent on and subservient to capital.

But I don’t know why I bother even mentioning that because you don’t sound like the person to have an intelligent conversation with anyway given the conclusion you jumped to from my comment.

Fair enough. That’s why I asked for clarification. I agree. I think I misinterpreted what you said as being a nod at people that say “reduce the population” while ignoring all of the problems with capitalism.

Argue for? Sorry, trying to understand what you mean here before I jump to conclusions.

Population control is not a solution. There is no way in which that doesn’t involve Nazi level eugenics shit given our current world powers. I don’t think people ever really walk through the material steps to this in their head.

Well, not entirely. There are cases for which a person utters the wish and it is not counted. “I wish for a million wishes!”

The standard is for the genie to explain the exceptions but not count that as a wish.

Now, it could decrement the count after this check. But just decrementing the count before verification would be sloppy.

But, then again, basic verification would also include checking that wishes_remaining <= MAX_WISHES.

Which, I think is a pretty standard check for genie’s. Given that that constant has remained at 3 since their beta days and exceptions are thrown for violations of this rule.

Nice comment. Thanks for confirming I’m talking to someone with complete brain rot.

Do you have to refine them in the game? My generation learned a lot about this stuff from a combination of RuneScape, WoW, and Elders Scrolls.