Grassroots organization will save us.
I think it’s more like the people who say things like “I’ll never vote for a transphobe like Gavin Newsom” when that makes you a Republican.
That obviously does not make you a Republican
if Burnie succeeded in anything, it’s getting the party to at least pretend to be leftist on paper occasionally. accepting the top candidate before the primary is a mistake. make them earn your vote.
Libs are too chicken shit to do that. They’d rather just harass anyone with the mindset of “earn my vote or you don’t get it”.
Hillary Clinton was up 17 points two years out, there’s plenty of time to fuck this up
Dems suffer greatly in finding the greatest shitbags possible who aren’t officially republican.
I’m still livid about the fact that last primary, I literally skipped over Gavin Newsom, researched every single person running in the primary, and crossed off every single name that was worse than him.
He was one of three names not crossed off. Out of two dozen.
Vote Blue No Matter Who means they don’t need to find a good candidate, and are free to ratfuck as much as they’d like during primaries. After all, the alternative is a republican, what are you going to do, convince 70 million other people to all vote for the same third party?
VBNMW is Blue MAGA. Treat them as such.
I prefer the more tactful, progressive in blue states (even third party vote if they don’t get the primary), but blue in red states to slow them down there.
I wouldn’t say anyone should be loyal to newsom,but we should be pragmatic during elections. And remember there are more races than just president.
We should support our progressive candidates to go independent if they have to.
Sidenote: Does anyone else feel like people are coping hard trying to pretend the country and system is as normal as ever? Like keeping their heads in their work or schooling. Or something else they can dive into. Instead of facing the broken-ness? Or is that just me?
Head in the sand. They’ve had it there since the election. If they just weather the next 3 and a half years, everyone will join together and just vote to fix it and our benovalent left will step in to selflessly serve us, unwind all this mess and make sure it can never happen again.
They don’t realize that this will be the point in history they look back at hundreds of years from now and try to figure out what happened. UK is going nuts, EU is going nuts. Privacy is under attack, speech is under attack. We’re all sliding into China’s model of control, but we’re not even getting the socialist advantages.
The U.S. has been taken over by fascists who are not so slowly dismantling everything that was good about the government and strengthening everything bad. We likely already don’t have anything close to a democracy anymore.
Yeah but theres a centrist neoliberal in Cali who has jokes!
yay
I won’t enthusiastically pledge allegiance to that homeless eating ghoul on Nov 3 2027.
I might, MIGHT, begrudgingly vote for the bastard. (If he promises Universal Healthcare) And if he wins I’ll shit on him as much as is warranted. We already know he sucks. He is going to suck immensely. This is known. But we’ll just have to see how it shakes.
2 years is plenty of time for democrats to get the message ‘i will not vote for anything but a progressive proven to run on progressive policies.’
I hope so. The problem is the Democratic Party would rather lose again than fight for universal healthcare, federally mandated maternity leave, national carbon tax, childcare programs, ending genocide, etc. ; and the democratic voters would rather “vote blue no matter who” than lose to the Republican Party again. So we end up with these establishment corporation oligarchy-asskissing candidates.
if that’s the case then nobody should vote for any democrat. because at that point they are not controlled opposition, they are just controlled. and the facade will have run its course and actual action would hopefully follow
It’s funny because Kyle Kulinski called it a couple years ago that the dem party would probably coalesce behind Gavin Newsom even though he’s still just a corrupt neolib.
Because.
Because he is a corrupt neolib.
The hostages are excited to choose their brand of chains.
If Newsone wants your vote he has 2 years to come up with better policies. Lol but he’s not going to do that. If he wanted your vote he’d rep your positions but he wants to rep other interests.
Yeah. Newsom trolling Trump is funny as hell. He is still a piece of shit, though.
Grade A shitposter
I’m laughing. But I haven’t forgotten hes a transphobe
Not a Fascist piece of shit though
Gavin is a continuation of the same type of Neoliberalism that made people apathetic enough to let Trump win.
Neoliberal control of the left leads to fascism
I wish people could really understand this.
Neoliberalism leads to fascism. Not like in a cartoonish they sit around in some fortress of evil planning a Nazi takeover.
Neoliberalism all over western society has shown itself ineffective at meeting people’s needs.
Neoliberalism wants free markets and limited governments. This leads to capital gaining a huge amount of power because the government categorically doesn’t want to regulate them. That power eventually turns to exploitation of the citizens and capture of the government.
Exploited citizens with an ineffective government get frustrated with a system that’s not meeting their needs. This is the dry tinder in which fascism catches fire, a charismatic person shows up and says “give me unlimited power and I can fix this quagmire you are in” and a lot of people go “fuck it, it can’t be worse than this” and you get a fascist dictator.
Neoliberalism leads to fascism not because they are the same but because neoliberalism creates the perfect environment for fascism to sprout and grow.
I would argue that fascism is more of a response by the elites to prevent citizen’s frustrations from becoming revolution. While fascism certainly uses populism to get power initially, it does not rise organically from the people, but is rather imposed by the ruling class.
I think we’re mostly agreeing, but it’s important to explicitly point out that fascism is a tool of class warfare. This explains why Democratic leadership is mostly just standing by and watching - they are also members of the elite (or are bought/controlled by the elite), so they are terrified that regular people will demand change that removes them from their high tower.
I agree with you there.
I think that’s part of the issue with neoliberalism, since it doesn’t care to reign in the abuses of the elites.
It’s interesting how the frustrated masses though are so ready to pick someone that’s clearly on the side of the ruling class.
I think that’s the part which might be more prominent in western culture right now. This paradox where people’s lives are made worse every day by businesses, businesses jacking up their rent, businesses gouging prices, businesses invading their privacy. And they finally have enough and go “we need someone to come in and run this country like a business.”
It’s amazing to watch millions of people have legitimate complaints and be completely unable to identify the source of their misery, so much that they hand it even more power.
Even more astounding to me is the large segment of the population who know that Trump is fascist and trying to become a dictator, yet can’t even be bothered to show up at a protest for two hours on a Saturday afternoon.
Literally all of my family and friends except for my partner (I’m so lucky there) fall into this category. Only two friends have attended a protest with me. One was clearly there just for the experience and the other was complaining the whole time that the protest won’t do anything.
You know who has been showing up in my area? The fucking boomers. It really feels like my generation is still waiting for mommy to fix the world for us.
Okay so what do we do.
It’s a good question.
Here are some facts we have to accept about the world first
- as long as authoritarians point their abuses inwards there’s no amount that causes the international community to put a stop to it, especially not against the United States.
- those with authoritarian power rarely surrender it willingly
- institutions do not historically stop fascism
So we are already down the road, whether we collectively want to admit it or not.
Here are some things you can do that might lessen some damage but are unlikely to stop the train
- vote for neoliberals. Go for it, it’s better than the alternative. But if putting neoliberals into power stopped fascism, then electing Biden in 2020 wouldn’t have been followed with trump in 2024
- protest, at least the peaceful do nothing protests that are allowed here. If your protest doesn’t make those with power worry then it’s almost really a protest but a state sanctioned pressure relief.
I would consider myself further left than any party and I hear people that share my views say that you should organize and build community solidarity. These are nice things, we should care for our neighbors and through tough times community can be a major source of strength. Not super likely to topple fascism but could make living through it better.
I see 3 scenarios where fascism fades into, well not really the background but the middle ground.
- Trump dies. He’s an old sick man, if he dies there will be plenty attempting to take the mantle up. Apple is still Apple without Steve Jobs but there not really a Steve Jobs replacement.
- Trump starts stupid wars. Stupid here being war with NATO, like trying to take Greenland by force. A war with Iran is also stupid but unlikely to turn people against him.
- Sustained general strike. This could actually work but the people of this country dont seem to have it in them.
I think we should also understand that the ability to maintain an authoritarian state has improved since Hitler and Mussolini. Hungary, Turkey, the Russian Federation are all examples of effectively authoritarian dictatorships wearing the trappings of democracy to some degree.
America has long been a nation bought by lobbyists to do the bidding of the wealthy. It’s not too crazy to think that we end up just zombie marching along with just enough trappings of democracy to say “it’s not too bad yet” for a long time. We have the national guard occupying US cities while a masked police force abducts people off the streets and illegally traffics them to other nations to be imprisoned without due process and disappeared. There are many red lines that have been crossed that could have been when people stood up, but everyone is waiting for something. That thing might never come.
I pose this question to leftists a lot. I rarely see a realistic take, so thank you for taking the time to type out something that isn’t the usual performative or delusional nonsense like “Creating a new party, one which recognizes xenogenders and native American LGBTQ issues, issues which hard-working Americans really care about” or the other extreme which seems to involve young people not thinking they’re going to live to 40 anyway, so nothing matters, retreat to fantasy and their discord servers.
I would maintain this:
we should care for our neighbors and through tough times community can be a major source of strength
Actually has a LOT more power to topple fascism. And I am speaking from my experience actually talking to people who have done it, it always starts in neighborhoods, in towns and counties (or the foreign equivalents they had) and this is also such a threat to the forces of capital trying to gain power through fascism that it’s the one thing they are knowingly or instinctively working hardest to squash down, with substitutes for social interaction, luxuries and conveniences that let us order everything we need from home, suburbs and single-family homes, etc.
But I am doing my best to drive this home to liberals and leftists broadly. They need to hear it the most, because the Right has already done this to fantastic effect. This is why they are pulling in lonely guys and every social reject, they give people a sense of belonging and community because their entry requirements are almost non-existent as long as you buy into the latest narrative.
Sustained general strike.
You are right, nobody has the heart or drive to do this to the degree that would be required to actually stop the gears. America is the heart of the world still in terms of economic and military might, it would take a LOT to get enough people to work together to grind it to a halt.
BUT, we can cause pain. Look at Target. Look at Las Vegas. Imagine doing this on a large enough scale that corporate lines start stalling even a little. And it takes doing the hard thing and smart thing right now, which is saving money. I know so many suburban families who claim to live paycheck-to-paycheck and never factor in their coffee shop trips, their new phones, their movie and entertainment subscriptions, their new video games, their new shoes, and so on. While there are necessities for families to function, not many people really cut back where it hurts. Many are already at the edge of their means, and I don’t mean them, I mean the middle-ish class suburbs that make up America’s money-basket that the mosquitoes feed on. Just get enough people to cut back on spending and you start taking the money out of the hands of the oligarchs and Musks of the world.
Now is a really, really good time to quit vaping, pot and alcohol. That little background voice that says “We will quit and get healthy someday”? Now is the time to listen to it. We may need the physical health too, depending how bad it gets.
Community connections will be required to get us through a general strike. A strike is not something to go into lightly or without proper preparation, so start now.
P. S. In leu of a non-existent labor union, here’s https://generalstrikeus.com/ Sign a strike card and spread the word.
Join a Marxist organization and build a socialist revolution. Communists are historically the most effective weapon against fascism.
Or, if you don’t like roleplay, you can get involved in your local and county elections, push candidates that lean towards social reform and socialist platforms, even if slightly, because that’s literally the best we can fucking hope for, so every time you kids splinter off and decide to start like, saluting Soviet flags and shit, you’re just wheeling the whole cart backwards.
Joining socialist organizations doesn’t mean abandoning local politics. If anything, it means getting more involved.
Exactly. Fascist-lite isn’t all that better than Fascism itself, especially when it inevitably leads to the other.
So when the other side uniformly votes for a full Fascists who do we vote?
With our hearts, a third party candidate?
Someone who is not a republican or democrat probably
And so the Fascists win again because we don’t have a Perfect Candidate 😖
Yes, and we should have organized for it 20yrs ago
Looks like those apathetic people were wrong, but like everyone else they’ll never admit it
You still think everyone is gonna just randomly do what’s best.
Awwww
Americans are stupid animals and Democrats are too dumb to appeal to stupid animals, that’s why they lose.
Yes go after the dems for being complicit with thr Trump regime and also being shitty people themsevles who are intentionallh suroessing the left wing candidates.
But im also enjoying the petty trolling of Trump and dont mind giving Newsom a little bit of approval for it.
Absolutely vote for whatever your personal issue is in the primary. Make your voice heard and let the candidates know about it.
Come general election, you vote against the Nazi. I don’t give a fuck if the Dem doesn’t like your issue, I’ll even donate to change their mind, but damn well show up and vote for them.
Nah, we need to let the DNC know that conservatives are unelectable in the general so they don’t ratfuck they way through the primary again. Saying it now, I will not vote for republican-lite
The way you do that is by winning the primary. If progressive candidates can’t win the primary, they can’t win the general. That’s what makes a candidate like Zohran in NY so important. At the end of the day though, if a progressive fails to take a seat, then a corporate dem is still better than any Nazi.
If progressive candidates can’t win the primary, they can’t win the general
Nah, the DNC has a million tools to control the primary, from not announcing winners to banning mail-in voting during a pandemic to giving debate questions to their preferred candidate to the way questions are framed.
We know this because they’ve done all hat and more.
But even if they didnt ratfuck progressives, the primary system gives undue importance to electorally irrelevant states. There was no way South Carolina was going to vote blue, but it largely decided it in 2024.
Bernie would have won in 2016, and would have trounced Trump in 2020 instead of Biden scraping by the skin of his ass, entirely because low-information believed democrats support free healthcare, not rounding up their neighbors to ICE camps, woman’s healthcare, etc, who were then disillusioned.
Come general election, you vote against the Nazi. I don’t give a fuck if the Dem doesn’t like your issue, I’ll even donate to change their mind, but damn well show up and vote for them.
Unless he’s Zohran, then we clutch pearls and support the corrupt creepy predator guy.
I’ve heard this brought up a lot. First of all, fuck Cuomo. Any rational person should be supporting Zohran over any of the other candidates.
But also, is there an actual worry about the ticket getting split or non-votes and allowing the Republican to win? That’s essentially what “vote Blue” is about.
Also, progressives have one candidate that is obviously better than the alternative, even if they don’t like both. Moderates aren’t necessarily convinced. It’s just a different argument.
Although, if they are and they still just don’t like them, I’m 100% telling them to get off their ass and vote to stop the nazis.
is there an actual worry about the ticket getting split or non-votes and allowing the Republican to win
Nope. The Republican candidate is perennial loser and insanely racist vigilante Curtis Sliwa. Nobody thinks he has a chance, including himself. He’s purely in it for the PR and donations.
That’s essentially what “vote Blue” is about.
Nope. That’s their excuse to force “electable” (read: right wing and corrupt) candidates on voters who would much rather have someone who’ll faithfully represent their wants and needs but scared of getting someone even worse.
Adams the fascist cop (but I repeat myself) won his primaries by a fraction of a percentage (after a full court press propaganda campaign on his behalf by both major parties and all NYC-based MSM) and they were immediately falling over each other to declare him “the future of the party”
Mamdani beats the establishment favorite in a surprise landslide and they’re all pretending that he’s a communist terrorist that somehow snuck in against the will of everyone.
The “Vote Blue No Matter Who” is in fact about keeping Republicans out of power. I’ve been telling people to vote blue no matter who in reference to Mamdani, who is supported by the vast majority of state and federal democrats and trouncing all other candidates combined in polls including the Trump supporting third party Cuomo.
The reason there is a perceived rift is because monied powers such as Israel and China WANT there to be a rift.
If that’s what it is about it failed. We need to move on.
Yeah, it is failing, because people aren’t doing it, and the result is Republicans keep winningm
That’s not going to change unless the DNC changes first.
I mean some are, and their support of Cuomo is worthy of condemnation. But it’s worth pointing out ‘vote blue no matter who’ cuts both ways and 100% it means Mamdani.
Broadly I hate the whole ‘party’ system and getting stuck with a ‘team sport’ mentality, but at least for now, for the national races I have to be pragmatic and steer into the skid of party politics. The local/state level I can afford to be more nuanced as for now, neither big party is as scary locally as the GOP is federally.
but at least for now
For now can last longer then any of us have been alive. Have you considered raising your standards?
Status Cuomo
Lol, clever.
Sure, but Gavin Newsom might very well also be a Nazi. If you’re from California, then you’re probably aware that he’s not exactly defending the the sanctuary state that he’s been charged to lead. He’s also kind of giving mayors carte blanche (and State-level support) to “clean up” homeless encampments, and he’s publicly stated that he doesn’t believe that “trans athletes should be allowed to compete against girls” in and interview with Charlie Kirk, and then recently doubled down on that.
So what do you do when both Candidates want to fuck the world?
Obviously the fascist party is accelerating things quickly, but the Democrats aren’t doing anything to slow it down. Just as in every single case of a fascist takeover ever, the liberals enable the fascists. They keep trying to shift to the right to “capture voters” which literally has never worked, but they keep trying. Why?
One person thinks trans people shouldn’t be allowed to compete in sports.
The other person thinks that trans people shouldn’t be allowed to live.
Please help I can’t figure out how these two are different
There is no difference. One side is just more honest
I can’t believe this is such a hard thing for people to understand.
I’ll take the side that dishonestly gives trans people their rights except for sports.
Do you believe he would stop a red state from enacting and enforcing anti trans legislation?
If the answer is no, he is not functionally different.
That might make you feel good to say. But also it’s a lie.
Also, I don’t have any confidence one way or another on what he would do. Neither one would surprise me. And yes, that’s a problem.
I mean yeah if you close your eyes everything looks the same
I’m willing to give up my non existent dreams of Basketball Stardom to ensure my survival
i can’t believe after the dissolution of checks and balances and the ongoing kidnapping of hispanic people nationwide we’re still having this conversation.
obviously newsom is actively awful. but calling it “both candidates want to fuck the world” is so narrow-minded knowing everything that is happening to america every day right now.
it’s frustrating to be an american and be given two choices who both suck. one choice sucks so much more. not playing along in this fucked up democracy puts american people in danger.
I don’t think “sucks so much more” is all that accurate though. Both candidates do want to fuck the world.
Where were the checks and balances when the Democrats were Drone-Striking kids? Where were the checks and balances when the Democrats were mass-deporting people? Where were the Checks and balances for torture programs, killing americans, giving our tax money to their rich friends, building out surveillance programs, backing a genocide, etc?
Yes, one side is worse, but the supposed “opposition” is doing everything they can to get as close to the worse side as they can.
There are no small wins anymore. Harm reduction is important, but it’s also important to understand what is happening right now. That’s all I’m saying. The Democrats will not be your salvation, they will be your slow demise. The Republicans will be your quick demise. People need to take to the streets, not the ballots. If you can’t see that, then you’re still living in the past. Listen to yourself: “compete dissolution of checks and balances” but you still think we can reform it all better?
C’mon, you don’t seem to be that out of the loop. Surely you get it by now? I don’t think you deserve to have a master
not the ballots
Go to the ballots and vote for who you want. Will it be sufficient, dunno, but it is absolutely needed to put in at least that effort.
Historically non-democratic means of overthrowing a previously democratic systems do not end well…
I’m not sure you understand my position. I’m against the Democrats and the Republicans. I don’t think voting will be our solution. I’m pretty sure that I never said we can reform it, and I think we’re gonna have to tear it all down and start over.
Responded to the wrong person. Sorry about that
Their comment reads like they responded to the wrong person.
i hope your clean hands can bring home all of the people ICE disappeared
You mean the organization that Obama and Biden supported, and used to disappear people?
not playing along in this fucked up democracy puts american people in danger.
Yet playing along seems to have led to fascism. Voting clearly is not enough, we have to take action outside of the system. Our fucked up electoral system could not be relied upon before and it definitely can’t now with a fascist in office doing everything he can to rig it in his favor. We need more people to become disillusioned with our electoral system because it is dead now, and believing in the fantasy that we can vote our way out of fascism isn’t going to do anyone any favors.
- i am pragmatic enough to understand how to do my best to reduce the harm done on my innocent countrymen
- i can do this while supporting grassroots initiatives to change the power structure.
what’s the outcome of mass disillusionment? are the Cool Socialists ready to replace the electoral system? because to me it seems way more likely that the Worse Fascists will benefit the most from mass disillusionment.
I also support harm reduction and I practice it at the ballot box, I just don’t think there is anything to gain by hammering people over the heads trying to sell them on harm reduction. It’s completely ineffective at inspiring people to the kind of mass coordinated action that is required.
what’s the outcome of mass disillusionment?
Disillusionment is effective at inspiring action, provided you can get people past the apathy stage. The fact is people are being disillusioned - for good reason - and fighting it is counterproductive. So long as you’re focused on trying to pull people back to the center for the sake of harm reduction, you’re ceding the populist narrative to the fascists.
are the Cool Socialists ready to replace the electoral system?
Absolutely not, which is why more people need to organize, and before they will be willing to organize they have to become disillusioned with the system.
because to me it seems way more likely that the Worse Fascists will benefit the most from mass disillusionment.
They will if we don’t meet people where they’re at like they’re doing.
and then recently doubled down on that
Wait seriously? I was really hoping he would do the opposite and call it a “lapse in judgement”
And because there are way more fascist friendly neoliberals than there are progressives it will never be someone you actually want to vote for.
This has been the pattern for my entire life and expecting this stupid country full of idiots to change is a recipe for disappointment.
Isn’t that how democracy works? You try to convince the greatest number of people to agree with you, and if they don’t, you lose? You can try to change the center of the curve, but if you’re way over in “property is theft” land, and the greater number of people are in “healthcare should be cheap if not free,” then that’s going to be the policy that wins. You can be upset that more people don’t agree with you, but that’s what primaries are for.
Yes which is why I hate it and want to leave.
Except everywhere is like this because humans are unnecessarily complicated.
Except the left has policy that directly improves the material conditions of people. Free Healthcare polls overwhelmingly better than “means-tested subsidies for insurance through 50 different marketplaces where you have no idea what you will pay at any point”.
The people don’t have coherent ideologies, but they know healthcare, rent, school are too expensive and wages are too low.
Yes, that has also been the case my entire life and yet it never, ever happens and it never, ever will.
It never happens because the right-wing dems oppose it more fiercely than they oppose republicans, and yall pledge to vote for them 2 years out anyway.
Unless we replace the entire government too to bottom with progressives it is literally never going to happen.
Our system of government is designed not to change so it takes a hyper-majority to do anything or consequence.
Do you think the republicans haven’t done anything of consequence? The US executive is literally one of the most powerful executives of any government, except like the gulf monarchies, France, and a few others.
To be more accurate: Democrats and progressives can’t get shit done because they still care about the rules.
Our system of government is designed not to change so it takes a hyper-majority to do anything or consequence.
It must be nice to be so oblivious to current events.
You’re right. If you play by the rules you can’t get shit done and the left insists upon it.
Your heuristic is easy to beat. A Nazi just needs to run as a Democrat, hide their true feelings until the general election, and they can trick you into voting for them every time.
You must be working for Fetterman
Well they can trick you into voting for them the first time, anyways
This goes every possible way and is a weak argument.
There’s nothing stopping a Nazi from lying and pretending to be a progressive canidate either.
You made an unwinable scenario
Nah i’m done playing this no sensical game. If I vote, it’s for PSL and any other third party option. Not like voting for a Dem in my state of Missouri will do anything so might as well vote for who I actually want to support and stop doing the “hold your nose and vote for the slightly less bigoted fascist”.
I used to think the same until Georgia flipped blue for Biden.
It’s possible and better then the alternative. Hell if your vote even just helps flip a house seat it is a drastic improvement
deleted by creator
Our federal institutions were staffed, the secretary of Health didn’t think vaccines caused autism, Elon Musk didn’t get to do whatever the hell he wanted to our government, burning a flag wasn’t a punishable crime, the national gaurd wasn’t policing our cities, we didn’t place a tariff on all of our allies, the department of homeland security didn’t have a budget of 160 billion dollars, we didn’t have El Salvadorian Gulags, I could keep going.
I never said the Biden administration was perfect. It wasn’t. Everything you said is true, what you decided to ignore is we have all of those things you listed still and now we have even worse things added on top.
It’s actually really fucking funny that everything you listed as being bad has recived increased funding or became a priority under Trump. Like if these are things you’ve identified as bad then obviously you should want less of them and not more. Now we’ve enabled a monster that is committing significantly more evil acts, because we couldn’t stomach the other guy.
This attitude is why Missouri will always be red.
I hate when people cannot see they are part of the very problem they’re trying to solve.
Look at the numbers of the last election. In the Senate race, Kunce (who was actively advertising himself as a conservative running on the Dem ticket) would have needed every third party vote plus an additional 331,000 votes to beat Hawley. Why would the people here want conservative light when they can have the full thing?
Harris would have needed every third party vote plus an additional 508,000 votes. Again someone that was trying to win over the “moderate conservative” by partying with Republicans on stage in an awful attempt at “bipartisanship”. Showcasing again people here don’t want conservative light. Plus, as someone who worked with the public at the time and was constantly told people’s political opinions when I didn’t’t want to know, they all saw her as a socialist/communist even with all the surrendering she did to the conservative party. Literally would have lost nothing in the public eye if she had gone full progressive instead of “moderate conservative”.
The people I talk to who don’t vote, even the ones that probably would have voted conservative if they did, don’t have any faith in our current system representing them. These random people I worked with or dealt with at work who, as far as I’m aware, aren’t terminally online want someone who would actually represent them. Internet libs can screech about leftists “purity testing”, but that’s how the average person works also. They don’t like their options and know that Missouri has been red for 30 years, so why bother when the decision is made for them.
Politics are either practical or vanity.
So you’re actively going to help the worst fascist, even using your own opinion of the democratic politicians. That makes you an enemy.
No, this is bullshit thinking and it has to stop! The Democrat politicians are the ones actively supporting Trump by sucking so much.
You can support diet fascism, but you but you don’t get to call it anti-fascism. And if the left is your enemy, what does that say about you?
And why is this even a conversation now? There is literally no reason for anyone to care about the 2028 election. I mean hell, in all likelihood you won’t even get to have real elections in 2028 at this rate, so now in 2025 go do something about it.
I’ll even donate to change their mind,
That… makes no sense.
Giving politicians money to change their mind is straight up how Dems operate. They’re barely even shy about it.
Yeah but you need a lot of zeros and commas on that check for them to give a damn
Less than you’d think, but hey - they didn’t say how much they were gonna spend.
Less than I think is still more than I can spare.
But, hey, good to know that our politics are hopelessly corrupt and can be purchased for mere hundreds of thousands of dollars and not millions.
I’m sure those poor millionaires are happy about that.
Tens, actually. But yeah
To be clear, I was and am one of the ones saying the people who didn’t vote out of protest or not bothering contributed to the current regime.
But yes, right now is exactly the time to start going after the Dems. Now is the time to support progressives. Now is the time for shitting on the Chuck Schumers and try to push them out of office. There is little those on the left can do to persuade the current regime, but on the off-chance there are legitimate-ish elections next year or in three years, either shifting the Dems left or replacing them with a viable Left Party is the thing we should do right now.
In other words, now is not the time for the lesser evil.
But later when there’s another shit-neolib candidate is?
Yes. When you end up with only two choices, not choosing means “both are equally bad.” So do everything you can to get better candidates before that point. Or uproot the entire system. Or whatever. Beforehand.
Check this…there are other candidates. But I know how y’all feel about voting your conscience…
If you don’t want it to be Newsom, you have 2 years to organize and make it someone else.
Putting the onus on me to find someone is all well and good, but are you really OK with settling for Newsom?
Why don’t we look together for someone more palatable?
Why don’t we look together for someone more palatable?
And we should. I often talk about this on Lemmy. But many of my fellow lemms and lefties here would rather just skip out on the work it takes yo build a movement. Then they wonder why they aren’t seriously represented.
Owning my shit…what I’m working on involves burning this fraudulent system, reeducation, and ditching private property and capitalism. Your next blue fool will never be a step towards that. This neoliberal fauxmockracy is most of the problem, not the popular fools they put on ballots.
Your next blue fool will never be a step towards that.
Its rather privileged of you to not see why harm minimization is important. In many casese that is all that will be possible.
Like I said in my comments, building a movement takes time and even agreed with you that we should work together, yet you hit me with this dismissive reply. I’m already trying to work with you and you’re shutting down before starting. Do you wonder why you don’t have any coalition after decades?
I live on and off the streets and have my entire life. I love that privilege. It’s awfully privileged of you to make assumptions about myself and my day to day conditions. Could we perhaps stick to the issues? I want actual material conditions to improve. Point me to a blue fool who’s worked towards that in my lifetime (c. 1970). Gavin ‘criminalize homelessness’ Newsom? Yeah, I’ll work on my own ‘harm minimization’ thank you. The system is working as designed but you keep working on reforming the blue chews! I don’t expect to form any coalitions with them because I’m not trying. In my opinion ‘the left’ starts at a rejection of capitalism which is antithetical to these corporate owned neolib figureheads. But I’m just an old poor with no safety net, what do I know?
The material conditions are that the revolution isn’t happening simultaneously. Even as our progressive movement grows not everyone will have one to vote for. A blue fool is still a lot better than a red one.
I don’t expect to form any coalitions with them because I’m not trying.
Well I rest my case, but remember that next time no one wants to work with you on any given topic and your wondering why no one has a platform you like (even in part)
I DO NOT THINK WORKING WITH BLUE MAGA-LITE IS A SOLUTION WORTH PURSUING. I KNOW WHY I THINK THAT. I’M NEVER GOING TO BE SETTING AROUND WONDERING. The Revolution has been in the works since 1776, it’s beginning to culminate. Either vote or revolt, I never thought ’d see any progress in my lifetime so things are looking awesome in regards to that. Sorry y’all fucked everything up so much. Vote harder.
Wait, wouldn’t it just be way easier to spend that entire time insufferably bitching about everything and criticizing everyone’s faults and then just voting for him in the end anyway?
don’t you mean, not voting at all?
Isn’t it likely in your opinion that if it isn’t for whoever you decide is best it’s the same thing?
No
That’s good. The Dems won’t be getting any more of my votes
Yeah the difference is the people who vote for Trump will kill me with their vote out of stupidity, and/or maliciousness. Those who do not vote will kill me simply to feel superior to those who vote.
Those who do not vote will kill me simply to feel superior to those who vote.
They are privileged to not need a sense of urgency or get respite. Its easy to keep your sense of purity and wait around when your not under siege.
Right back at you self righteous punk, stop preaching and get to work
