• eskimofry@lemmy.world
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    19 hours ago

    This post and several comments agreeing with this I feel are made with some level of ignorance on “Civil Disobedience”.

    Minimizing participation in the orphan-crushing machine but also debating politics on available platforms are not antithetical. Debating online is as important as doing the rest of the things that are perceived as “real” worthwhile pursuits. For instance: How can we pursue a cure for cancer if the political climate ensures scientists are scorned and distrusted? If evangelising about the “real” problems you care about is labelled as politics then can you really make progress without “political” action such as boycotting, protests and civil disobedience?

    In the same vein, doing the small things in protest is the stepping stones to doing bigger things. It works the same way for any pursuit. Why shouldn’t I practice discipline with my disdain for all the evil in small ways while also pushing for more?

    Jeff Bezos makes billions of dollars, But He didn’t get the $100 from me this year. Sure that sounds like a waste of time and energy for not much impact. But It didn’t cause me any hardship. But believe me that $100 had either a compounding effect on my own wealth this year or to some people i gifted essential food to. That impact was felt a lot more by me or one of the people i gifted food or essentials to.

  • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Cutting out the middle man does not involve technologically regressing.

    Cutting out the middle man means stepping up and learning how the tech you use in your daily lives actually works. The only reason some tech bro can step in and ruin your life is if you let them keep you ignorant through convenience.

    You want to cut out the middle man? Use, and support, open source. Fight to make everything that requires a server, be a server that you own in your own home (or is federated and in your local community). Use, and support, repairable technology… And actually repair your technology!

    • ameancow@lemmy.world
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      Cutting out the middle man does not involve technologically regressing.

      But then how can you performatively sit in Starbucks with a mechanical typewriter and then post it on social media so everyone knows how progressive and anti-establishment you are???

    • kadu@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      does not involve technologically regressing.

      The fallacy that technological progress is inherently good is simply flawed. You could say “instead of relying on Spotify, and instead of “technologically regressing”, learn open source alternatives and host your own Jellyfin server!”

      But what was wrong with “technologically regressing” exactly? A MP3, CD or even tape recording player will: always work, sound great, require zero user friction, never receive updates or security flaws, not depend on a convoluted self hosted setup.

      Do you want to listen to music or impress Lemmy? There’s absolutely no argument to be made that requires accepting all tech simply because it’s tech.

      • infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net
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        2 days ago

        It’s also a fallacy that technology always progresses. If technology from 25 years ago serves you better than technology from today, it’s the superior technology.

      • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Technological progress isn’t inherently anything. It’s just technological progress; an inevitability. Fighting against it is like fighting the laws of the universe, if not outright stupidly phobic.

        What defines the “goodness” of technology is how people choose to use it.

        Everything more said is just pointless philosophical fluff.

        • kadu@lemmy.world
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          Technological progress isn’t inherently anything

          Exactly. So arguing that “you shouldn’t technologically regress” is meaningless.

          Fighting against it is like fighting the laws of the universe

          Not only is this not applicable to the argument at hand, given there’s no law of nature that makes a CD player implode just because Spotify exists, but this statement is so bizarrely wrong it’s almost hard to take the rest of the discussion seriously.

          • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Exactly. So arguing that “you shouldn’t technologically regress” is meaningless.

            Did you lose track of your own argument?

            You assumed that I meant technological progress is inherently good. I said technological progress isn’t good or bad, just inevitable. That does not mean that technological regression isn’t inherently bad.

            And yes, the CD player did implode, figuratively, because Spotify exists. :)

      • ameancow@lemmy.world
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        There’s absolutely no argument to be made that requires accepting all tech simply because it’s tech.

        False dichotomy and a stupid comic strip making a stupid point all the way down.

        If we cared about this issue we would be pushing for the installation of representatives who want to ban planned obsolescence and systems that require you to have the newest, most expensive vehicles, appliances and gadgets. Our current entire government is subservient to and employed by companies that make billions on this manufactured consent to always “needing” to spend our labor on useless junk.

        To say nothing of the inherent, massive problem that we made it legal to buy and own politicians.

        • kadu@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Yeah no. You just didn’t understand the comic and made a stupid point. It happens.

          • ameancow@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            Okay, ya’ll kids keep arguing about “devices” while millions of people are forced to buy the newest phones so they can get their email and attend job interviews, while mountains of money get poured into politicians who are affording their fifth homes because Samsung pays them in wheelbarrows of cash to keep consumer protection agencies neutered or destroyed.

        • kadu@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Calling somebody using a retro MP3 player “Amish 2.0” is as moronic as calling you a tech bro neuralink implanted Musk boy just because you’re defending technological progress. Both would be equally ridiculous statements, but the difference is, you actually wrote the moronic comment.

        • Jaded99@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          These technology phobes are the next generation who will be scammed out of their pension fund, inheritance or investments just like current boomers who refused to advance along with the world, and they deserve to be hacked, scammed, robbed because they refuse to keep learning.

          Learn or get left behind.

    • ameancow@lemmy.world
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      The idea that we can even DO anything about capitalism at this point is a forgone fantasy. Not to say we shouldn’t keep trying to push for a better, more equitable world until the time becomes more ripe to do away with personal gain above others, but we don’t get there all at once. There will be no revolution, nobody is coming.

      But if we were to work together and firmly, decisively push actual, selected representatives into power who are committed to getting MOTHERFUCKING MONEY OUT OF POLITICS, that would bring a thousand miles closer to that ideal world we all want. Other countries have done it, but our problem in America is we have a population way too comfortable and atomized to ever band together and do this critically important thing.

      I don’t have a way to reach enough people without some kind of massive disaster that forces people off their couches and makes food out of reach.

        • ameancow@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          No, but keep enjoying feeling superior for knowing we need to do more while not doing more.

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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            18 hours ago

            You have absolutely no idea what I’m doing. Not sure why you’re confident that your plan for symbolic victories is superior.

  • merdaverse@lemmy.zip
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    2 days ago

    Is this supposed to be satire? How is print media owned by massive conglomerates, flip phones with no OSS firmware, handwritten letters delivered by a literal middleman, avoiding the middlemen??

    • Octavio@lemmy.world
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      They’re not defining “middleman” in the traditional sense of an intermediary in an economic exchange. The first panel introduces a new definition of the term as a tech bro attempting to insinuate himself into the process of communicating with others. The remedies offered would indeed seem to preclude this type of middleman from interfering with the process.

      • Zexks@lemmy.world
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        No they wouldn’t. All of those products involve middlemen servicing content.

        • Octavio@lemmy.world
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          Again. It’s not saying there’s nobody else involved in the chain. It’s saying tech bro enshitification doesn’t have a way in. That’s the only problem it’s claiming to solve.

          For instance, you don’t open up a paper book and have an AI window pop up on the page and offer to generate a summary of the book. You don’t take an ordinary pen to a sheet of paper and after two paragraphs have the pen say, “Subscribe to ink services to continue writing, start your free trial today?”

  • qaz@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    We don’t need to go back to handwritten mail, FOSS is the way to go.

    • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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      3 days ago

      Writing someone a letter is a very personal thing and you’re creating a memory. Something tangible, concrete, also weighs in on reality. Looking at a piece of paper with your handwrite makes you understand you’re commiting to something.

      I’m a FOSS loon but the craze of making everything digital is absurd. I’ve listened to people criticizing others for using paper and a pencil to take down a memo, note or even journaling, when they can do it on their phone.

      Is existing so dreadful nowadays? Does the notion of leaving proof of existence scares?

      • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
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        Its nothing to do with contempt for the media, or not wanting to leave evidence of my existence or anything like that, its just that I got shit to do.

        • TeamAssimilation@infosec.pub
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          Yeah, handwriting sucks. I used to type my homework in a mechanical typewriter, holy cow even that sucked. Going from that to an electrical typewriter that could hold a line in memory was amazing, but still nothing compared to a proper word processor. Wordstar in MS-DOS anyone?

          I still like to sketch my ideas from time to time, but all my permanent notes are stored in Joplin, encrypted, in local backup, and synced to the cloud. I can’t afford to lose them, and I can’t afford to lug around with me a heavy suitcase of papers.

          I’ve seen young people wishing for simpler times, kids using Polaroid cameras, hunting retro consoles that were already ancient when they were born, longing for music that was way before their time, etc. I get they’re disillusioned with the current state of things, but romanticizing the past is not a healthy way to cope with the horrible today.

        • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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          3 days ago

          I don’t doubt you have a busy life. And that is not the subject at hand here.

          What should concern us, collectively, is that we are constantly being pushed the notion that we do not have enough time and that tech is always the solution, when it is not.

          I’m going to take a risk and say you write faster than you type and reaching for a pencil is quicker than launching a program.

          • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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            I’m going to take a risk and say you write faster than you type

            Even my 80 year old mother in law can type faster than she writes. Come on.

          • KubeRoot@discuss.tchncs.de
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            I most certainly don’t write faster than I type, and sending an email or a chat message certainly doesn’t take longer than finding something to write with and something to write on. There is a big factor of habit and lifestyle - I don’t usually write stuff down, so I don’t have prepared/assigned tools for that, but I use my computer a lot, so I do have software installed and tools/commands memorised.

            And, frankly, out of many possible options, plain text is something computers are really good at - there’s basically no risk of running out of space, it’s indexable and searchable, it’s editable, and it’s very universal.

            Things do get a bit more complex when you include formatting, and a lot more complicated when you start adding annotations or illustrations, or even just more freeform writing styles, but there’s still a major factor of habit - I don’t know what my note taking would look like if I had a habit of pen and paper, but I know I’m very comfortable with using tech for that, and it works great for me!

          • qaz@lemmy.world
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            I’m going to take a risk and say you write faster than you type and reaching for a pencil is quicker than launching a program.

            Maybe for you, but opening KWrite takes only 5-6 key presses and I type much faster than I write

            • Turret3857@infosec.pub
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              3 days ago

              Not to mention the fact theyd be expecting me to write well enough to be able to reread it later. Even if I wrote it at half my typing speed I still would not be able to make that shit out.

            • saigot@lemmy.ca
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              3 days ago

              And not just you, short hand used to be ubiquitous before the computer, now it’s all but extinct.

          • mang0@lemmy.zip
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            I’m going to take a risk and say you write faster than you type

            I have a very hard time believing this. From some quick googling, it seems that experienced writers can do 40 wpm, which is really slow in comparison to an (even an inexperienced) typer. Also, typing has no risk of being unreadable, unlike writing (e.g. doctor’s written notes).

            and reaching for a pencil is quicker than launching a program.

            Maybe if your computer is really slow.

            • boonhet@sopuli.xyz
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              An inexperienced typer might be slower than 40 wpm. I’ve seen people type maybe 10 words per minute using only index fingers and looking for every letter. An inexperienced touch typer is maybe 40-60 wpm range though.

              I do up to around 140 wpm which many people think is lightning fast but then there’s people who can do 250 and I can’t even comprehend being that fast. Goddamn Sean Wrona.

              Just to give some perspective.

      • Echo5@lemmy.world
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        A guy I worked with, not even super closely, left me a handwritten card when he moved on saying it was a pleasure working with me. I did not expect it and almost certainly didn’t deserve it but I still have that card somewhere.

        • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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          Weren’t those a thing to admire? Chicken scratches on the ground could be more readable.

      • Wolf@lemmy.today
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        There is something to be said in writing a handwritten letter for someone special once in a while. But I’m so glad that I can just pick up a phone and call my brother who lives in another state and chat with him (no long distance charges). If it’s something better said in writing there’s email and texts.

        There’s also the aspect of text’s that are more personal that no one really talks about. You can just check in on a friend to see how they are doing without really having any other reason to contact them. I know I appreciate it when that happens to me.

        I guess you could write someone a letter asking how they are doing, but if the answer is ‘not good’, by the time you receive the reply days have passed and you probably missed the opportunity to be there for them when they needed it.

        This isn’t even considering the environmental benefits of not having to A) produce paper, pens, envelopes, stamps and B) physically deliver the letters.

        There’s a lot of things about modern tech that you could criticize, but I don’t think more/better options for communication is one of them honestly.

  • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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    3 days ago

    We’re techy enough nerds to know there’s another way to be free of billionaire influence while still keeping some resemblance of modern communication: self-hosting.

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          All your friends are on a group chat and they will periodically mail you the updates. Sure, why not?

          • Ŝan@piefed.zip
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            3 days ago

            Ðe peer group really is a concern. And OSS kind of stinks for normies much of ðe time.

            I got ðe family on Circles, and my SIL (ðe one with ðe toddler) loved it… until it lost all of her posts for ðe family, and ðen shut down.

            • A_norny_mousse@feddit.org
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              3 days ago

              We (mostly my brother and I) convinced our octogenarian parents to switch the whole family group to Signal, many years ago. It works nicely. What saddens me though, is that Signal will never replace WA for most people, it’s Just One More App for them.

              • FackCurs@lemmy.world
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                2 days ago

                WhatsApp is just one more App for me. There are two people I wish I could convince to use signal but cannot…

          • merc@sh.itjust.works
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            2 days ago

            So do I, but I wouldn’t recommend it for everybody. Hosting your email has sucked for decades. For a long time the issue was incoming spam. That never really went away, but now in addition to that you get a constant barrage of people trying to crack into your server. Plus, you get the fun of trying to convince the big email gatekeepers that you’re still legit. And for that one they change the rules constantly and on a whim.

      • msage@programming.dev
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        3 days ago

        My family and immediate friends are all on my Matrix server.

        I have my own dedicated public server, so I can selfhost anything I want. And I do selfhost a lot.

        • JumpyWombat@lemmy.ml
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          I selfhost since so long that some of my domains could vote, but I still need some “mainstream” channels to be reached by several people.

          If we can argue that close friends will put extra effort to contact you on whatever you use, it’s also true that your landlord, the plumber, the chick you picked up last night, won’t give a shit and simply consider you a lunatic 99% of times if you tell them to use anything non-mainstream.

            • JumpyWombat@lemmy.ml
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              Yeah, but Matrix has bridges for almost anything.

              But then you are simply using Whatsapp with extra steps.

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                I don’t, but if the need arises, you can.

                At least you don’t have to use their app on your device, and it just talkes on the server.

      • dutchkimble@lemy.lol
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        Good luck self hosting something to message

        Dude, it’s pretty easy to set up matrix on a docker container

        your contacts

        Fuck you’re right

        • msage@programming.dev
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          Because fuck centralized software.

          And there aren’t many good option, there is only one, and Signal still required phone number for some reason on my phone so I could not give a fuck about it.

        • JumpyWombat@lemmy.ml
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          You’re asking the wrong guy. I don’t think it makes sense either even if I’m a (moderate) self-hosting guy.

  • AusatKeyboardPremi@lemmy.world
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    I see a few comments about self hosting stuff to escape the clutches of big tech, and while all that is effective to a high degree, it is beyond the abilities of the general populace.

    Besides, I am also of the opinion that not everything has to be digital or smart.

    I relish writing and receiving letters, it is tangible and indicates commitment. Fortunately, postal system isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

    I like reading newspapers and it was sad to see all shops in my neighbourhood stop selling them during or after COVID. It was equally sad to see a lot of magazines not survive that period.

    I miss my old TV that was simpler to use and started quicker than my newer smart TV. It does not matter if I disconnect the latter from the internet, it takes its time to load up. Besides, I don’t see any perceivable difference in picture quality from the distance I watch from.

    Older laptops, though heavier, were more repairable. In certain aspects, they are better than modern ones: more tactile keyboard, nicer screen ratio (4:3). Of course, the newer laptops decimate the old ones when it comes to performance and screen quality but that is just technology progressing.

    I could keep going on with a plethora of product categories. But across all my points, I wish some companies could continue offering such products, at least to a customer base that is willing to pay more just to support the existence of those products.

    • boonhet@sopuli.xyz
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      I was with you until 4:3. You should be locked up.

      On a more serious note: Framework laptops. More repairable than the laptops of yore, minus the soldered CPUs which seem unavoidable in laptops now.

      • AusatKeyboardPremi@lemmy.world
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        lol.

        To rile you up a bit, I wish I could say it is a subjective thing but 4:3 is the better option for laptops.

        More vertical screen estate, given one would mostly be doing their reading, writing and browsing – activities that are traditionally vertically oriented.

        Even most websites just centre their content and leave behind swathes of white/empty space on both sides.

        Anything beyond those activities, one should be using a bigger screen (desktop or a TV)^^^.

        Jokes(?) apart, Framework laptops are the best option for folks like us as it ticks the most boxes. But it is not available in the country where I live, and I don’t want to import it as it would be meaningless without its broader ecosystem. FWIW, I have dropped them emails every year requesting them to expand their presence in more countries.

        Till then, old ThinkPads. They are cheap, have enough spare parts on the market even after almost 2 decades, and even come with the kind of keyboards and screens that I like. :-)


        ^^^This, unlike the text above it, is a subjective thing

        P.S.

        I always wanted to use superscript, subscript and horizontal line. Thanks to you, I got to use 2/3. :-)

  • A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.world
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    I am and probably always will be a tech enthusiast, but as time goes on I find myself more and more looking for old technology to avoid planned obsolescence, anti-repair bs, telemetry & tracking, lack of consideration for quality of life…

    This is not how things were supposed to be. But this is how things will be if we don’t do something about oligarchs and certain CEOs.

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      I always say, it peaked about 2010, maybe earlier. Then innovation stopped, and surveillance REALLY took off. All they have left now is your data, and ads, because the iPhone was the last actually innovative useful device.

      Its not worth innovating in late stage capitalism when you can make everything a subscription and gouge your customers for life while making your product worse and worse.

    • explodicle@sh.itjust.works
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      3 days ago

      Technology can develop in various directions. This is exactly what it looks like when technology is developed for consumerism. Buy more now, it doesn’t need to last, stimulate the economy. Rent what you can, everything else as a service.

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      It is really weird, isn’t it. I’ve always been a major enthusiast for Tech. Always wanted to get in on VR when it was first evolving, as I could see how else could use VR. I bought oneof the first iPods cause I messed with one and realized it was a game changer for what we had at that time. Now, I find myself cautioning people on the use of AI and home automation. I feel like I’m turning into a Luddite.

  • Zink@programming.dev
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    That’s exactly what is so nice about FOSS based systems. You can use technology but without the tech bros and the corporate enshittification.

    • Novaling@lemmy.zip
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      FOSS is great and I love it but we do have our own idiots/FOSSbros, even if it’s not about corporate enshittification.

      Saw a post on wafrn (rip on maintenance rn) complaining about FOSSbros and was confused, until they gave an example of this blog post where some asshole was shitting on the author for having criticisms against distros for not being easy and friendly for blind/visually empaired people. The blog post is line-by-line breakdown of that guy’s comment.

      Original Comment

      Okay, first of all, it’s GNU/Linux, not “Linux.” You keep saying “Linux” like it’s some magic OS that fell from the sky, when in reality it’s just the kernel. The real operating system—the one that gives you your shells, your coreutils, your compilers, your sanity—is the GNU system. By not calling it GNU/Linux, you’re erasing the work of decades of free software pioneers who fought tooth and nail so you could sit there whining about things not being shiny enough. You sound like the kind of person who installs Arch and then blogs about how hard it is to use a terminal. News flash: it’s not hard—you’re just lazy.

      Second, the whole “Linux isn’t built for people” line? Give me a break. You want an OS that’s “built for people”? What people? Consumers? Passive clickers? People who treat a computer like a Netflix vending machine? GNU/Linux isn’t built for users the way Apple or Microsoft defines users—as data sources for ads, or potential subscribers to whatever crapware-as-a-service model they’re shoving this fiscal quarter. GNU/Linux is built for users in the sense of users who use their brains. If you’re allergic to learning, maybe this ecosystem isn’t for you—and that’s fine, just stop trying to dumb it down for the rest of us.

      You’re mad because you don’t “feel welcomed”? Look, freedom isn’t about making you feel hugged while your system silently phones home and installs DRM. GNU/Linux is about you owning your machine. It’s about writing a shell script to replace some bloated GUI monstrosity because you can. It’s about reading the manual and understanding your stack, not begging for some dev to “just make it work like macOS.” You’re not being excluded—you’re being challenged. If you don’t like that, maybe stick to using ChromeOS with your Google account tethered to every bodily function.

      And don’t think I didn’t notice you never once mentioned freedom in your post. Not even once. Not a single nod to software freedom, user control, or the social contract behind all this code. That tells me everything I need to know. You think this is about convenience, when it’s really about liberation. This isn’t about your fonts not rendering or your Wi-Fi card needing a firmware blob. This is about you refusing to confront the responsibilities of being in control.

      You want GNU/Linux to “love you back”? That’s not how this works. GNU/Linux isn’t Trump, trying to flatter you while stabbing you in the back. It’s not some product that wants to manipulate your emotions to get you to upgrade. It’s a tool, and it assumes you’re smart enough to wield it. If you want love, get a dog. If you want freedom, open a terminal.

      So we do have the “FOSS is always easy and gets the job done, if you can’t handle it you’re an incompetent toddler who just wants big tech to make your life easy,” tech bros. Like that “smart guy makes fun of disenfranchised people for still participating in a society” comic.

    • Sundray@lemmus.orgOP
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      2 days ago

      What a fantastic post, thank you for linking it!

      Seriously though, I do think that it’s interesting that this comic and that essay seem to take up opposite positions*, but in each case they attract more contrary comments than ones that agree. I suppose no matter what you post, any given person is more likely to comment on it if it pisses them off than if it confirms their beliefs. It’s a good thing Lemmy doesn’t reward engagement, or else we’d be up to our eyeballs in ragebait, eh?

      *Unless you read the whole thing instead of bouncing off the first paragraph.

        • Sundray@lemmus.orgOP
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          2 days ago

          Sure, but where are the comments disagreeing with the disagree-ers? It’s all attack, no defense.

          • FiskFisk33@startrek.website
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            2 days ago

            fair point, but to get there you must go to the comments to begin with, which I believe might be less likely you do when you don’t have something to say.

      • HailSeitan@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Yes: We need structural remedies, not individuals opting out. But please tell me what your implied “gotcha” is supposed to be.

    • infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net
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      That’s just false, and is also not the message of the article you linked.

      The articles point is not that avoiding enshittification won’t make a difference in the amount of enshittification you experience: To the contrary, it affirms that it likely will! The articles point is that personally avoiding enshittification isn’t an effective way of combatting the ubiquity of enshittification in society, ie “consumer activism” and “voting with your dollars” cannot create system change.

      Most everyone here already knows this, and I imagine you also understood the article just fine and don’t need me explaining it to you, but you botched the paraphrase in your link thus seeding a lot of potential confusion and frustration absent some clarification. This is intentionally a thread about personally avoiding enshittification, and that does not imply a rejection of the desire to also end it oestebsibly by other means.

  • MudMan@fedia.io
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    3 days ago

    That last panel hit me like a truck because… yeah, that’s what people think happens when they do their little personal choice things to pretend they matter.

    They really buy like a paper book once and go “ah, yes, Bezos is fuming right now” while he makes another billion.

    We have lost all sense of how to influence society and all ability to gauge scale. For all the folksy traditionalism in this (which includes driving a gas guzzler from the 70s, apparently?) the Internet has created this entirely disproportionate sense of our footprint on the world and this strip is as much a result of the hyperconnected dystopia as everything it’s complaining about.

    In my experience this is extra bad for Americans who, frankly, didn’t need that much of a push to go from their individualist, self-centered perception of society to this vision of sitting on a couch listening to a walkman as activism.

    • Cypher@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      I’ll buy something other than a ‘gas guzzler’ the second I’m not required to trade away my privacy to go electric, and can disable every single last beep, ding, screech and other unnecessary sound some stupid fuck thought was a good idea.

      • bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works
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        You’re doing a lot more to save the planet by driving an old car and fixing it than buying a new one that gets 5 mpg more. People are dumb about this. Reuse is the most important thing. Buying a new prius is FAR worse than keeping on driving a 99 grand prix.

        • Cypher@lemmy.world
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          Unfortunately my government is also stupid about this and they’re going to raise my registration costs every year to get me to replace the car I drive under 5,000km annually with an electric car.

          It would take driving my little car another 60 years at this rate to produce as much pollution as building a new electric car that won’t last 10.

      • iii@mander.xyz
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        3 days ago

        Oh how I long for the day someone invents a car without a touchscreen.

        • scytale@piefed.zip
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          3 days ago

          I’m a fan of big screens myself. What I’m not a fan of is putting everything into that screen. I want the screen for the infotainment system only. All hvac and essential controls should still be physical buttons and dials. And of course, ditch all the tracking and data collection that comes with the car.

      • QuarterSwede@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Honestly that exists. Just bought a BMW i3 (their first electric) and you can disable just about everything, even the sound it makes to alert pedestrians, the infotainment warning screen everyone hates, and seat belt chimes, through an app and a BT OBDII dongle. The 2014-2017 models all have 3G cellular antennas so they mostly don’t work anymore (3G is totally gone in my area). It also has buttons for climate and their great iDrive infotainment controller. It’s a fantastic quirky electric at dirt cheap prices.

        BUT, your point stands since that’s 1 out of how many electric vehicles? Yeah, sucks.

    • JumpyWombat@lemmy.ml
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      3 days ago

      We have lost all sense of how to influence the world and all ability to gauge scale.

      Absolutely correct!

      I believe in “voting with your wallet” and I do little sacrifices to respect my ideas, but I’m conscious that I’m just one step above people clicking on petitions online in terms of impact.

      • whosepoopisonmybutt@sh.itjust.works
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        3 days ago

        I think the point is that we’re deluded to think that voting with our wallets does anything. You still work. You still buy. You still support the system. The one step you’re taking only gets you partway from the couch to the refrigerator. It doesn’t get you out the door and into a protest that would actually make a difference.

        • JumpyWombat@lemmy.ml
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          You still work. You still buy. You still support the system.

          Of course, because I’m no more 16 arguing that a revolution is the solution.

          • whosepoopisonmybutt@sh.itjust.works
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            3 days ago

            Indeed, you are thoroughly pacified. Your objections and moral outage quelled and your sense of significance sustained by the illusion that simply buying from a different conglomerate will have any impact.

            Any suggestion that your impotent protest is inadequate must surely come from a childish fool.

            • JumpyWombat@lemmy.ml
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              3 days ago

              Ping me when you changed the world with whatever you are actually doing behind that keyboard 👋

              • eskimofry@lemmy.world
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                It’s so hard for people to agree that we should be doing something. Instead you argue that you are not going to do anything just out of spite all because OP personally may not be doing anything but their words are a bit preachy. If OP was a hypocrite but they still said the right thing why would you deliberately disagree? What would motivate you to act?

                • JumpyWombat@lemmy.ml
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                  we should be doing something

                  Ok, let’s dive into it. What does “doing something” exactly mean? I’ve been into this since before I could vote, so I saw quite through it.

                  “Doing something” means a lot of different things for different people. Signing a petition, going to a march, writing on a wall, you name it. For some people “doing something” means sitting all day discussing about socialism and revolution in a living room. For others it is more biking together with Critical Mass against oil on weekends. There are those seeking small daily actions like recycling, and then there are the activist jumping on a boat with Greenpeace to save the whales, and the terrorists doing anything from damaging something to placing a bomb.

                  What does it mean for you “doing something”? Once you determine that, determine how much of that something would be adopted by the general population and what level of change could that reasonably achieve. I’ll anticipate the result of you exercise: the bigger is your something and the smaller will be the adoption, but the product in terms of impact will be always “very small”.

                  Take Occupy Wall Street to make an example. I loved the whole thing, I love the work of David Graeber, and it was a massive success, but what did they achieve in practice? The expression 99% entered in the general culture and there may be a bit more awareness of the problem of billionaires, but looking at cold metrics it was like a big storm, then the sun came back and a few days later the last puddle evaporated.

                  you argue that you are not going to do anything just out of spite all because OP personally may not be doing anything but their words are a bit preachy

                  Who said I’m not doing anything? OP said “You still work. You still buy. You still support the system.” to which I replied that I’m no more a naive 16 years old who shouts fuck the system and dreams to live off-the-grid avoiding the rat-race… and then goes back home to have dinner with mum.

                  If you are an adult and you want to go for it, be my guest! You may become Greta-Thunberg-famous, and people will follow you on social media. You will convince some people that, I don’t know, we should buy durable and reparable things to save the planet and fight consumerism. You will have an impact, albeit very small, and that will be a massive achievement if you dedicate your whole life to that.

                  Just, please, stop with idiotic replies accusing people to be enslaved in the system because it’s an insult to anyone who is currently looking for a solution for cancer, saving lives as a firefighter, building houses where people will live, growing crops, and even keeping up internet so people can praise the revolution against the machine from their bedrooms.

                • JumpyWombat@lemmy.ml
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                  3 days ago

                  Masturbating, I’m masturbating.

                  Wow! Do it in public fully naked with the reasons of the protest tattooed on your body. You may hit the news and reach lots of people!

                • RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works
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                  I must be imagining all the Governors in the northern states begging us Canadians to start visiting again. Voting with you wallet does work if enough people get on board.

    • A_norny_mousse@feddit.org
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      3 days ago

      The comic is hyperbolic and not in a good way. “They wouldn’t like it” - yeah, if millions of Americans did the same. And it isn’t even necessary to go pre-digital or pre-internet to “cut out the middleman”.

      I agree with you on most, but this:

      which includes driving a gas guzzler from the 70s, apparently?

      is hyperbole on your part.

      First of all, by-default internet connected cars haven’t been a thing until relatively recently (10 years max I guess). And then, gas guzzling does not necessarily correlate with age. Cars consuming less than, say, 5l/100km have existed since at least the 80s (1st hand experience, and the car was already 20 years old at that point).

      • TeamAssimilation@infosec.pub
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        Your comment made me remember how 25 years ago it was unthinkable, even illegal, for a company to spy on you without consent. Tech isn’t the problem, regulation has also become a joke, that’s what gave tech bros free reign, as long as they make loads of money fast so rich investors can concentrate even more wealth.

      • MudMan@fedia.io
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        I guess the car thing comes from the use of “pre-computerized”. Cars have had computers in them much longer than they’ve been connected to the Internet by default. I guess my mistake was taking the panel at its word there.

        Also, man, I appreciate the alignment, but the “millions of Americans” really made me feel icky. Beyond the moral and political refusal to give Americans primary decisionmaking power on these things, these trends and companies are global. Even in the US you probably would need tens of millions to make a dent, but some of these userbases are in the billions. Millions of Americans decided Facebook was for old people and left it and it’s still the biggest social media platform on the planet by some margin. That’d be the collective inability to gauge scale in a dystopia of global monopolies I was talking about.

    • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
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      this is it. guilliotines exist. is organizing against corporations, or actually understanding the tech we use so hopeless for regular people that they feel have to maintain 1980s shit just to be rid of it?

    • merc@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      Also, it’s getting harder and harder to live without modern devices.

      Try living in the modern world without a cell phone. It’s hard to do almost anything without one. If you get a flip phone that can handle text messages you can get a bit further, but it’s a matter of time before that’s not enough.

      And sure, you can listen to cassettes on a walkman. And maybe you saved some tapes from 40 years ago, and maybe they still work. But, how do you get more music? Sure, you can probably find a place to order tapes online. But, then they want to verify your account and that means texting a verification code to your phone and…

      As for print media. Sure, you can still buy paper books. But, if you want a real newspaper, good luck. There are a few that are still around, AFAIK you can still get the NY Times in print. But, I really doubt you still even have a local newspaper, let alone a newspaper that prints on paper.

      • MudMan@fedia.io
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        All but one of the major papers where I’m from have a print version. I imagine that changes in different countries.

        But… yeah, point taken. Over here you can’t even not have a Whatsapp account. Some businesses and transactions just… assume you do and default to it for communication.

        An interesting wrinkle is that some of that legacy media is part of this loop, too. You can, in fact, buy new tape players and tapes and you can put new music into them. It’s all just very expensive trendy, hipstery small run collector stuff that costs a lot of money and sells to privileged people with a nostalgic desire for posturing. Which does put a lot of where this message ends up in context, I suppose.