• altphoto@lemmy.today
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    5 hours ago

    We’re like Pokémon! Everyone everywhere wants to catch us. At home they really want to send people to Guantanamo. Abroad they need to exchange us for people kidnapped in el Salvador.

      • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        He also can’t. Proclamations of war are made by the legislature. (Congress). If the President sends troops in a supposed emergency they can go without legislative consent for 90 days and must be recalled at that time without the legislature’s approval. It’s stupid, because 90 days into a conflict we have troops on the ground and an immediate evacuation only hurts us economically and global appearance some worry about. Not to mention the troops lost/injured, casualties left with those attacked and Congress not agreeing to keep them there is an admission that it was wrong, so not paying restitution would hurt international relations as well.

        To me it comes to, if he orders troops on the ground, an immediate Congressional impeachment would be needed, and the Senate to remove him, or they will vote in favor of staying in the fight to “save face” and not care how many innocent lives die or are thrown into poverty, starve, are raped, wrongly imprisoned, tortured, and the damages it will cause to the mental health of a whole new generation of our soilders and people of other counties around the world.

          • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
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            4 hours ago

            The funding comes from Congress… So either they approve it or are forced to approve it which they would have to recognize they no longer exist as an entity if the executive branch can write their checks for them.

            So to save face, they would have to approve or impeach. Or completely give up the guise that it is a Republic. Their votes are public record. So the executive branch could make them up, post them and threaten them not to say anything… but I doubt many of them would go through with that and not vote to impeach unless they are truly pro dictatorship. Some of them think they are pro dictatorship, but when you gather hundreds of people spending their lives/career trying to work their way up in power and someone says they are going to dissolve their positions/power and their chances of rising or having any say plummet… they would be powerless if they chose to follow… Greed and self preservation would make them not want it.

        • Zenith@lemm.ee
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          3 hours ago

          Americans are always about how we hate the government of a country but not the people, at least this American is and all the Americans I know are, I know it’s not literally universal. To say “I hate the Iranian government but not Iranian people” seems pretty reasonable if you hate the Iranian government but for them to turn around and basically say “well I consider all American entities, including completely powerless civilians free game” is fucked I’m no matter how you look at it. Like wtf more do you want from me? I vote against this, have for decades, I protest against this have been since W was in office, I donate money and energy to war torn countries, I’m absolutely against bombing any country why exactly am I considered fair game?? Fuck anyone who lumps entire countries of people into a single hive-mind that serves its leader, a fraudulent one no less

          • the_wiz@feddit.org
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            2 hours ago

            Well, do yourself what you would expect other people in a rogue state to do. How many cries of “the Russians should overthrow the government!” were there?

            Or to bring in a parable: What would you have expected from the average German citizen in 1939?

    • Zorque@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      It used to be that non-combatants weren’t considered legitimate targets. Ain’t progress fun?

      • Anomalocaris@lemm.ee
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        10 hours ago

        tell that to all the civilians in Guantanamo and Gaza.

        if the first aggressor doesn’t give a fuck about rule of war, it can’t complain about them

        • matlag@sh.itjust.works
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          8 hours ago

          Or Ukraine’s civilians. Or the 500k–2M dead civilians during the war against Iraq. Oh, sorry, those were “collateral”…

          Usually citizens are not considered fair targets. They’re just targeted all the same.

          Iran does not have the military capabilities to fight off Israel, let alone the USA. So they will most likely use terrorist attacks, targeting civilians, because that’s the best hope they have to end the war: when the people back home get serious about ending it as they’re taking losses.

          Unfortunately, and as usual, the very important people who decide to keep going or stop are also the least likely to see their life at risk. And in this case, they also happen to not give a flying fuck about civilians lives.

          • vga@sopuli.xyz
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            4 hours ago

            So they will most likely use terrorist attacks, targeting civilians, because that’s the best hope they have to end the war: when the people back home get serious about ending it as they’re taking losses.

            Remember what happened the last time a major terrorist strike happened in USA? That’s the number one way to get ordinary civilians of a democracy to support an actual war almost 100%. It’s the kind of strategy that makes Pentagon say “yeah lol be my guest let’s see what happens”.

      • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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        11 hours ago

        Americans have only ever pretended to care about non-combatants when it’s convenient. President Obama even invented the term ‘enemy combatant’ so he could pretend his drone strikes were killing fewer civilians.

      • BarneyPiccolo@lemmings.world
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        10 hours ago

        In the history of the world, it has only been a very short window during the late 20th/ early 21 st century that civilians were not considered fair game in war, although they get slaughtered anyway. Even with civilians being off limits, as recently as WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and the Middle East, civilians have been targets either by design, by atrocity, or by proximity.

        If there’s a war, don’t think you’re getting off the hook just because you’re a civilian. During war, the old adage “If your not with us, you’re against us” becomes weaponized.

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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        8 hours ago

        Well, it used to be that they were too. Have you heard of all the cities in Europe that were effectively destroyed during WWII?

        It comes and goes, usually whenever it’s useful. It sucks, but war is horrible. If civilians don’t want to be targets they should pressure their governments to not be in them. Yes, sometimes it’s worth fighting, but sometimes it isn’t.

        • fishos@lemmy.world
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          8 hours ago

          “War is terrible”

          Wow, such a great take. You should be in charge. Any more deep insights?

          • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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            5 hours ago

            Lol. You’re following me around now to insult me? And you called me a neckbeard…

  • vga@sopuli.xyz
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    4 hours ago

    That’s how they’ve viewed US citizens since about 1979. Trump is an asshole, but going after the Islamic Republic of Iran is not in the top 100 worst things he’s done.

  • brown567@sh.itjust.works
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    14 hours ago

    🎶 Everybody’s going to the party, have a real good time

    Dancing in the desert, blowing up the sunshine 🎶

  • flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz
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    17 hours ago

    The headline is somewhat misleading. Iran said US personnel are legitimate targets (meaning those employed by the US government. Not all US citizens.

    Although if I were American I would not risk depending on the judgment of a random Iranian soldier.

    • catloaf@lemm.ee
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      13 hours ago

      First sentence:

      Iran announced Sunday that any American civilian or military personnel in the region are now considered legitimate targets

      So yes, still not all Americans, but no, not just government employees, American civilians too.

      But I suspect non-military people will be arrested, not treated as military targets to be attacked or bombed.

      • Zexks@lemmy.world
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        12 hours ago

        After we’ve droned some of their people. I wouldn’t put money on that.

      • Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca
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        9 hours ago

        Folks have tried a couple of times, unfortunately it never seems to sink in that it generally isn’t worth the trouble.

    • tal@lemmy.today
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      6 hours ago

      Oh good. Americans will die.

      Trump will be fine.

      I dunno. Iran got caught by American intelligence trying to assassinate Trump not long ago, under Biden.

    • Kirp123@lemmy.world
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      14 hours ago

      More Americans died of Covid than in any war the US was involved since it became a country, yes including the Civil War. The highest death estimate for the Civil War puts it around 750 000 deaths while around 1 200 000 died due to Covid. Most Americans don’t really care about the deaths of their fellow countrymen since, you know, they elected him again.

      Fun Fact (I know it’s not that fun): The number of people that died of Covid approaches the total number of people that died in all conflicts the US was involved from 1775 to 2019: 1 300 000 war dead versus 1 200 000 Covid dead

      • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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        8 hours ago

        By 2000 more Americans had died of AIDS than any war but the civil war. Though I will admit I was surprised we still didn’t care when it wasn’t just undesirables dying. Turns out we’re able to be ablist enough to declare anyone who dies of disease basically already dead beforehand

    • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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      11 hours ago

      My best guess is that they’ll use biological warfare. Our culture has already demonstrated that this is a huge weakness. They could also get us with a cyber attack, shutting down important infrastructure that way.

      • valkyrieangela@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        2 hours ago

        Iran isn’t known for it’s cybersecurity divisions. Right wing states generally aren’t good with technology. So I’m not worried about a cyber attack.

        In fact, it’s tough to say what Iran’s military capacity is at all. We pelt them with drone strikes and long range missiles constantly and they seem like they can do nothing about it. We keep talking about all this enriched uranium they possess, but do they even possess the capacity to deliver the payload to our domestic soil before we thwart them?

        They’ll likely go after Israel first, so we’ll soon see the extent of their armaments.

      • Wahots@pawb.social
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        3 hours ago

        I don’t think they will. We as a species still suffer from diseases where shit comes into contact with our mouth. If we can’t solve fecal-oral diseases, any bioweapon you deploy will infect your own population. It’s why we terminated our bioweapons program. It’s about as discerning as chemical warfare. :P

        On a related note, I’d fucking love bidets with dryers to be mandatory at all farms, hospitals, food handling facilities, markets, and restaurants. It would minimize the impact of fecal-oral diseases, especially with improper handwashing and food handling (eg, not wearing gloves).

      • EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com
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        9 hours ago

        Our government is exceptional at dealing in violence but inept at handling threats that it can’t beat, shoot, or bomb into submission.

        The societal response and government handling of COVID was not at all reassuring. To the point that I let go of any last remaining shred of hope I had for us to turn this ship around on several metrics (e.g. climate change). And unfortunately I think it has gotten even worse, e.g. with the (at least apparent) increase in anti-vaxxers.

        • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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          9 hours ago

          Same. My city reopened in Mid-June 2020 and I remember going to the gym and seeing people pretending the virus was gone, no masks, distancing, or wiping down the equipment. People are disgusting.

          So I still mask up and carry sanitizer.

      • BarneyPiccolo@lemmings.world
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        10 hours ago

        Release Ebola or some such thing in America, and the MAGAs will make sure no laws or mandates are passed to prevent it’s spread. 50% of the population will be gone within a year, destroying our society without firing a shot.

        • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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          10 hours ago

          It would be oddly poetic to use our own basic grossness against us. Americans have terrible hygiene.

      • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
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        9 hours ago

        Iran would not do that, but you raise an important point about how insanely vulnerable the US is to actual biological attacks.

        Could you imagine the US government trying to get Americans to get an anthrax vaccine after a weapon attack?

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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        17 hours ago

        While I don’t recommend believing them non-conditionally, Haaretz has generally been opposed to Netanyahu and hid actions, especially after he picked a fight with them earlier this year.

        • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
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          9 hours ago

          Even the Israeli left parties (and Ha’aretz is on the left) supports war on Iran even if they were less supportive of the genocide in Gaza. They still have a bias.