Labels should be used like sign posts, they just help make sure we don’t get lost when we talk about complicated stuff.
It’s all about balance. A few sign posts help people not to get lost, but too much sign posts would make people become disoriented.
My self loathing dropped dramatically when I figured out I had ADHD. I was no longer labeling myself lazy, wasted potential, or disrespectful. I was simply one with ADHD, a label that promised growth and compromise with myself if I put in the effort. Guides, therapy, and neat tips were unlocked by that diagnosis.
That comfortableness with neurodivergence lead me to trust my heart and my genderfluid tendencies. I don’t have the ego to define myself without labels like these.
Dude, exact same as when I found out I was ASD. I didn’t really know how important a label was until it explained so much and gave me a starting frame of reference to talk about with others.
I think I knew this with my head and heart, but it was at this point when I knew it with my gut. It has, frankly, been exhilarating, and I hope it’s an accurate enough analogue for what my LGTBTQ+ family feel that I can better empathize with them.
edit: sometimes words are hard. like at least 85% of the time.
Yes, sometimes labels are too constrictive, and not perfect for everyone. But when people say queer people are obsessed with labels, or “I’m not cis; I’m normal”, what they’re almost certainly taking issue with is non-cisheteronormativity being recognized and validated. When the only labels are normal and not normal, it’s much easier to silence and marginalize those you believe are outside the norm.
Yeah I agree, orange shirt in the comic is being needlessly dismissive. Like of course queer people are often obsessed with labels, we’ve typically been deprived of models and community so finding that in a label is going to be exciting. And for some other queer people, labels can feel restrictive, reminding them of the rigidity of the cisheteronormative mold they’re trying to escape in the first place.
Labels can be empowering for some and restrictive for others and that’s fine, as long as we all respect each other. Like I’ve had people try to prescribe specific gender labels onto me when I’m more comfortable leaving it at non-binary, that’s not cool, just like it would be lame of me not to respect when someone says they’re genderfluid or any other more specific label under the non-binary umbrella.
I think that I don’t want people calling me cis and I don’t want to talk about it. I also think that if labels help someone else out I will use whatever pronouns they prefer.
Its just like, what other word should we use than cisgender? We can say people whose gender matches their one assigned at birth I guess but that gets annoying. In certain contexts the cisgender label just makes discussion easier.
I think there’s a distinction that can and should be drawn between descriptors and labels. Most people fit the descriptor “cisgender” but you’ll be hard-pressed to find someone using it as an identity label.
Likewise, looking at definitions, non-binary genders are usually included under the trans umbrella, but many non-binary folks, myself included, don’t necessarily use trans as a label. If someone is talking about the trans community, I still relate and feel included in the conversation, but I don’t use the word as a label for myself.
I disagree; I think there’s a huge middle ground you’re ignoring.
“Everyone should be treated equally” is a pretty simple concept that a lot of (maybe even a majority of) people agree with. It’s possible to fully subscribe to that ideology while also thinking that the explosion of labels that gen z is infatuated with is silly.
The rhetoric I described is absolutely being weaponized against people. If you follow the reason behind the arugment that someone is “normal, not cis”, then you would then conclude that trans and nb people are not normal. Anyone who accepts that argument would likely conclude that not only are trans women not “normal women”, and trans men not “normal men”, but that they are not actually real women or men.
As for gen z being infatuated with labels, I will admit I don’t understand many of them, but I’m fine with them if they help people communicate their identity better. I wouldn’t claim that any labels are redundant or just attention seeking without any actual evidence or reasoning behind it.
I’m taking issue with your first example, not your second. There’s a world of difference.
But when people say queer people are obsessed with labels […] what they’re almost certainly taking issue with is non-cisheteronormativity being recognized and validated.
This statement I think is incorrect.
It is being weaponized in that way too. For example, Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro went on rants about asexuality recently, claiming that labels such as demisexual had no basis in reality and described experiences that are common to everyone. If you follow their argument, people become unable to use labels that communicate their preferences and experience.
Even when it isn’t being weaponized, I don’t think you should claim certain labels are unnecessary unless you’ve engaged with the reasoning behind the people who use them and form a reasonable argument that isn’t “back in my day people didn’t have so many labels.”
“Some people are weaponizing that language” is a VERY different statement than “anyone who uses that language is almost certainly weaponizing it”. You’re alienating allies by accusing them if being enemies.
“Some people are weaponizing that language” is a VERY different statement than “anyone who uses that language is almost certainly weaponizing it”.
I never said that. In fact, I ended my last reply with “Even when it isn’t being weaponized”. I said people who say things like “queer people are obsessed with labels” and “I’m not cis; I’m normal”, which are both disparaging comments, are more than likely doing so in response to encountering identities and experiences outside of cishetnormativity. It’s one thing to say that there are a lot of labels used, and you find some of them either dubious or unneccessary, and another to say that people are obsessed or making up labels for attention.
Whenever people say that someone’s choice of labels is simply attention seeking or naive, how often are these people actually listening and engaging with the person’s reasoning for identifying with the said label, and show give actual evidence for said attention seeking? In my experience, the only argument I’ve seen being used against labels that people identify with is “I’ve never heard of it nor do I understand it, therefore it’s not real.” Claiming that “queer people are obsessed with labels” is a broad generalization that comes of as a knee jerk reaction.
You’re alienating allies by accusing them if being enemies.
All I’m asking is that people think whenever they feel the need to dismiss others and gatekeep identities from people. In my experience, this seems to be based more on people’s gut reactions rather than science, facts, or logic, like they claim it is.
Whenever I’ve seen people disparage certain labels like non-binary or demisexual, they never seem to have actually listen to someone with said identity and engage with their reasoning. It’s far more common for them to decide that they’re attention seeking, deluded, or mentally ill.
And if people are going to be allies, there are going to be times when they need to examine their behaviour. Any self-proclaimed ally who says that “I have nothing against queer people, but why are they so obsessed with labels?” needs to re-examine their arguments just like anyone who says “I have nothing against women, but why are they so emotional and sensitive?” or “I have nothing against black people, but why are they so violent?”.
Why do you think it’s silly?
Even if it were silly, is that sufficient reason to not treat others with respect?
[Image description: A six panel comic.
First panel: A person is looking at a paper. Their text bubble reads: “Ugh why do we need a label for EVERYTHING?”
Second panel: The person crumples the paper.
Third panel: The person throws the paper. A purple haired onlooker sees this. Purple haired person has a question mark over their head.
Fourth panel: Purple haired person picks up paper.
Fifth panel: Purple haired person reads paper. Their text bubble reads: “Wow there’s a word for this? I’m not ALONE? It’s OK to be who i really am?”
Sixth panel: Purple haired person cradles paper. A heart is drawn beside them. Their text bubble reads: "I’m so happy that I found this "]Appreciate the transcription! I’ll try to remember to add these to my posts from now on :)
Question for my queer friends, especially gen z: why do you need a specific label to feel happy about whatever you are? Like, you’re not allowed to love yourself until you’ve found a specific combination of sounds to denote where exactly you fall on every gender, sexual, and mental spectrum?
As a millenial, we were largely doing away with labels and it felt empowering. Just be whoever you are and do whatever you do. I can’t wrap my head around wanting a label.
Not gen z but a bit older than that… I’m only just beginning to understand and accept my queerness and it is very frustrating and mentally/emotionally exhausting at times not having the vocab to express how I feel.
Labels do help with that… provide some basis of common lingo. Somewhere to start with actually being able to speak about how one is feeling.
Because you actually need to organize together to achieve political power, and you can’t do that without choosing something to organize around.
It’s pretty easy to say “well just abandon labels” when no one is using your labels against you to strip your rights away. But when they are, you need to find other queer folk and create power with them, and the words are how to do it.
Also it seems exactly backwards to demand we reject labels, when the problem is the people using them against us.
I’m a millennial / gen z edge case (born in 96) so I encounter both those perspectives with my friends.
It helps me feel calm to find out there are categories of gender and sexual identity I can identify with bc it means there are more people like me and it’s easier to communicate my identity to others using those labels. It’s sometimes nice to have something to adhere to because it makes you feel understood and valid as opposed to just internal chaos and insecurity. And labels can always change, they’re not something to fix your identity in place. They can enable you to be confident in some situations.
On the other hand I comepletely understand no wanting to be defined by the labels you choose for yourself. I think with some people it’s nice to have them (e.g. because my friends already know me as a person and don’t use the labels to define me instead) and in others it may not (e.g. anti-lgbtq discrimination online, in public or in the workplace, being misunderstood by uneducated or ignorant people).
It helps you find a like minded group. In my case knowing there are other people on the spectrum helps me find other people and groups who are similar to me in that way and have similar struggles. They can give more targeted and therefore potentially more helpful advice than someone who doesn’t have and can’t fully empathize with those issues.
Not gen z, millenial who loves labels
my identity was stolen from my by abusers. I was who they wanted me to be and nothing else. I knew I was different from my peers, I could tell just as much as they could, and they did not let me forget for even a split second. I was never given the language or space to explore and figure out what was so different about me (turns out it was that I am autistic and trans and a bunch of other things, go figure)
Not knowing was agonizing. Seeing notcable differences. Between yourself and your peers yet not understanding why or what or how left me so isolated. Labels can bring understanding, peace of mind, self acceptance and community
Now I label and microlabel everything and I will not stop
other than that, labels can open doors: In this society you wont get your needs acknowledged unless you have a particular label. Should that be different? Yes! Does that make labels obsolete? no IMO
That said you dont have to understand, just, please as a fellow millenial, don’t do the unhelpful, unproductive and frankly dismissve “stop labeling yourself, labels belong on products not people”. That’s someone’s understanding of themselves you are dismissing by doing that
Sometimes I feel like there are too many labels especially those in the Bi+ category. There seems to be a new label constantly. But also my thoughts on this really don’t matter since if someone wants to be omnisexual instead of bisexual it doesn’t really affect me.
The only problematic one could be Fraysexual since I can see someone weaponizing it. Like some bro using it as an excuse to dump people after they slept with them to respect their sexual orientation. But then again that’s just a hypothetical which I haven’t seen
I am fine with labels, just don’t expect me to care about them. It’s not that I don’t like that they help some folks, I simply don’t care enough about any of them to be bothered.
My least favorite is ‘preferred pronoun’. Son, I won’t even remember your first name in an hor, there is no way I am remembering your pronoun. There is a reason we iuse pronouns, and its because they are readily accessible and guessable.
why don’t you just use “they” if you don’t know
German doesn’t have they/theeeemmm
I had hour long rants about that to friends xD luckily they are still my friends
This is one of my favourite parts of being non-binary; it’s such a great filter for weeding out people who lack empathy.
People who immediately go “OMG that is SO COMPLICATED sorry but I can’t do that I won’t even try” when they learn that I use they/them pronouns immediately reveal to me that they’re not worth my time, and that they’ll never truly see me and respect me as I am.
no way I am remembering your pronoun.
they are readily accessible and guessable.
So you can remember peoples’ pronouns, then?
