• andros_rex@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    edit-2
    4 days ago

    “Alexamenos worships his god.”

    The fact that he was crucified was still an insult, up to probably 200 CE ish at least. Crucification was an especially degrading death - not just about killing you, but making sure it was long, drawn out and humiliating. (Longinus would have been doing something kind. Think about giving someone vinegar on a sponge to drink - to keep them alive just a little bit longer is drawing out the torture. You wanna be stabbed with the spear.)

    Early Christians used the fish as their symbol for Christ. If the resurrection were historical (sorry NT Wright - I don’t think the tomb was empty) - a fish would make more sense for accessory choice.

    • Skullgrid@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      3 days ago

      nice info. Do you know when they started shifting from the fish to the cross?

      the fish seems a nicer symbol (food) over the cross (sacrifice) but it is “deeper” to have the sacrifice symbol.

      • andros_rex@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        3 days ago

        The shift was starting around the time of this image I think - pretty solid bit of iconography by the 300s.

        I imagine some of it has to do with the development of a “higher” Christology. I don’t think the evidence suggests that Jesus’s immediate followers believed he was resurrected, but that he came to be identified as a divine figure around the 200s. Then, it makes sense to adopt the cross as your symbol - because you are arguing that your guy defied that brutal execution.

      • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        3 days ago

        the fish seems a nicer symbol

        Not when it was about “catching fish” as mentioned in the really early stuff. (swapped for Oysters by Lewis Carroll’s homage)

        • Skullgrid@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          3 days ago

          I thought it was because of the miracle of the loaves and fish (not christian, through popcultural osmosis I know there was an instance where he … made more fish and bread at a gathering? unsure if this was also the same story where he turned water into wine)

          • andros_rex@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            3 days ago

            It comes from an acrostic - “ησοῦς Χρῑστός Θεοῦ Υἱός Σωτήρ" - means Jesus Christ, God’s son and savior.

            ἸΧΘΥΣ is the greek word for fish. I’m sure the story of the loaves and the fish probably did inspire the acrostic.

          • frezik@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            3 days ago

            Earlier than that, even. Mark chapter 1 talks about Jesus first setting up his ministry, and in verses 16 and 17 says:

            As Jesus walked beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and his brother Andrew casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will send you out to fish for people.”

            This is from the NIV. It’s sometimes translated as “fishers of men”.

            A lot of his early disciples were fisherman, so it likely goes back into that.