YES! Get rid of that dumb shit!
Not sure what programmers have to say about this though. Ideally DST would’ve been scrapped like 30 years ago back when there were a lot fewer people using computers, so a lot of code wouldn’t need updating as soon as such a change is implemented, but waiting will only worsen it.
I think keeping summertime is the better option. Having a bit of sunlight when you come home from school or work in winter would be priceless. Even if it means darker mornings.
If the EU abolishes DST in its member states, there won’t be any patches or updates necessary to software out there. The timezone database will simply be updated to reflect the change of policy and bam, once your system has the new tzdata, restart your apps and they will automatically understand it. This is not like the Y2K bug that needed actual patches.
Unless the software implemented timezones wrong, for example as tz column in the database with a signed integer. This breaks as soon as you have 30 min Timezone offsets, or try to compare north earth timezones vs south earth timezones where the change between summer and wintertime 2 months apart.
There are lots of systems (embedded, mostly offline, abandoned by its vendor) which are not easily upgradeable and their timezone database cannot be easily replaced.
Not everything is a PC getting its regular software update.
Hi, I’m a software developer. DST is a nightmare because it makes the clock jump (skip an hour in one direction, meaning there are wall clock times which don’t exist, or backwards, meaning there are wall clock times that exist twice). I don’t care whether we will settle on summer or winter time but please, just don’t make it jump.
As a software dev myself: if time in your application’s internals jumps on DST, something has been implemented incorrectly. That’s what zone information is for, to make times uniquely identifiable and timers run the correct length.
Getting the implementation right is hard, though. So, abolishing DST is very well worth it.
I think keeping summertime is the better option. Having a bit of sunlight when you come home from school or work in winter would be priceless. Even if it means darker mornings.
This is why I doubt we’ll get rid of it. A majority of people seem to dislike dst but not for the same reasons. I get up around 6. That already means about 3 hours of darkness during winter mornings as is. And in the afternoon I’m indoors anyway because it’s cold. It’d be more convenient for me to sacrifice an hour of daylight on summer evenings. Then again the sun rising around 4 would be kind of a waste.
As a fellow German, could you please tell me, which limits there are to business hours that would be problematic with an hour more or less?
Because most businesses start between 6:00 and 9:00 in the morning and afaik. there is no regulatory limit (e.g. late shift surcharges) before 22:00. Still people working in grocery stores often start at 5 to unload before opening at 6 and in cities stores run until 22:00 some until midnight.
Most people work from 8:00-17:00. That is perfectly cover able without any legal changes.
It’s not like there’s more sunlight, it’s just offsetting where in the day you get the most sunlight. Turn the clock back and you get sunlight earlier in the day, and turn the clock forward you get more sunlight in the afternoon/evening.
As someone living just north enough in Denmark, winters are brutal depending on your job, and I’ve mostly had factory-like jobs where I spent most days inside without sunlight, so I’d drive to work in darkness, spend most of the day in artificial light, no windows, and then drive home in darkness.
The solution would be your employer adjusting the shift times, so they allow everyone to catch some sun. Ideally you would work two hours less in winter than in summer.
The thing is, most people start work in the morning, so moving the clock in the direction that provides them with more sunshine in the evening when they’re free to go outside is beneficial for them. Moving it the other way is not useful for most.
You do realize, the sun isn’t hanging in there for an hour longer, just because we on earth made a change to some kind of time keeping device? We will still have 24h hours a day and the sun will still shine the amount of time it shines.
Edit: I see a couple of downvotes. Could some one give some arguments?
I would argue, this is a bit of a different can of worms. What I am arguing for is to keep the clock in sync with science and have 12 o’clock be roughly at the time, when the sun is in it’s zenith.
We shouldn’t just switch back and forth on the clock just because we feel like it, because then what is the point?
The amount of sun we get in a day on any given longitude will not change just because we are dialing back and forth a time measurement device.
I’m saying that instead of the entire population having to change every single clock backwards and forwards every year. So that’s children, the sick, retired people, students, workers, unemployed, aristocrats, the fucking lot, everyone. That’s every computer, every clock, every embedded system.
Instead of that, jobs just say come in at 7 - 3 for half the year and 8 - 4 for the other half. Is that really such a difficult concept for them to adopt?
So have a summer schedule and a winter schedule with the bossman.
Why does some people’s employment issues have to be every person’s problem?
And you said it in response of someone that is against turning the clock. It reads as if you support switching times and that I should just go to work later of I have an issue with it.
Not sure what programmers have to say about this though.
DST is a major pain in the butt, getting rid of it simplifies a lot of things. Only problem is that everything still needs to take DST into account for all of history.
YES! Get rid of that dumb shit!
Not sure what programmers have to say about this though. Ideally DST would’ve been scrapped like 30 years ago back when there were a lot fewer people using computers, so a lot of code wouldn’t need updating as soon as such a change is implemented, but waiting will only worsen it.
I think keeping summertime is the better option. Having a bit of sunlight when you come home from school or work in winter would be priceless. Even if it means darker mornings.
If the EU abolishes DST in its member states, there won’t be any patches or updates necessary to software out there. The timezone database will simply be updated to reflect the change of policy and bam, once your system has the new tzdata, restart your apps and they will automatically understand it. This is not like the Y2K bug that needed actual patches.
Unless the software implemented timezones wrong, for example as tz column in the database with a signed integer. This breaks as soon as you have 30 min Timezone offsets, or try to compare north earth timezones vs south earth timezones where the change between summer and wintertime 2 months apart.
Ask me how I know 🫠
Holy shit that’s absolute software gore. Especially since we’ve had timestamp with tz since forever.
There are lots of systems (embedded, mostly offline, abandoned by its vendor) which are not easily upgradeable and their timezone database cannot be easily replaced. Not everything is a PC getting its regular software update.
Hi, I’m a software developer. DST is a nightmare because it makes the clock jump (skip an hour in one direction, meaning there are wall clock times which don’t exist, or backwards, meaning there are wall clock times that exist twice). I don’t care whether we will settle on summer or winter time but please, just don’t make it jump.
As a software dev myself: if time in your application’s internals jumps on DST, something has been implemented incorrectly. That’s what zone information is for, to make times uniquely identifiable and timers run the correct length. Getting the implementation right is hard, though. So, abolishing DST is very well worth it.
I know, but many of our colleagues don’t. I’ve seen so many systems storing and processing their local wall clock time it’s not even funny.
This is why I doubt we’ll get rid of it. A majority of people seem to dislike dst but not for the same reasons. I get up around 6. That already means about 3 hours of darkness during winter mornings as is. And in the afternoon I’m indoors anyway because it’s cold. It’d be more convenient for me to sacrifice an hour of daylight on summer evenings. Then again the sun rising around 4 would be kind of a waste.
Just do it like the chinese do it:
Width of 4 time zones all on Beijing time. (most eastern)
So companies in center/west just shift their business hours instead.
Nobody says your company has to open at 8h, starting at 10 is perfectly legal!
The laws for business hours in Germany are unfathomably strict.
Laws can be changed.
Good luck with this one
As a fellow German, could you please tell me, which limits there are to business hours that would be problematic with an hour more or less?
Because most businesses start between 6:00 and 9:00 in the morning and afaik. there is no regulatory limit (e.g. late shift surcharges) before 22:00. Still people working in grocery stores often start at 5 to unload before opening at 6 and in cities stores run until 22:00 some until midnight.
Most people work from 8:00-17:00. That is perfectly cover able without any legal changes.
I like the switches, more sunlight is better!
It’s not like there’s more sunlight, it’s just offsetting where in the day you get the most sunlight. Turn the clock back and you get sunlight earlier in the day, and turn the clock forward you get more sunlight in the afternoon/evening.
As someone living just north enough in Denmark, winters are brutal depending on your job, and I’ve mostly had factory-like jobs where I spent most days inside without sunlight, so I’d drive to work in darkness, spend most of the day in artificial light, no windows, and then drive home in darkness.
Yep, I am well aware of all of that, I am a Swede living north of Stockholm
I even worked 12h alternating day/night shifts.
And damn, summer time makes a huge difference when getting off work at 20:00…
The solution would be your employer adjusting the shift times, so they allow everyone to catch some sun. Ideally you would work two hours less in winter than in summer.
The thing is, most people start work in the morning, so moving the clock in the direction that provides them with more sunshine in the evening when they’re free to go outside is beneficial for them. Moving it the other way is not useful for most.
You do realize, the sun isn’t hanging in there for an hour longer, just because we on earth made a change to some kind of time keeping device? We will still have 24h hours a day and the sun will still shine the amount of time it shines.
Edit: I see a couple of downvotes. Could some one give some arguments?
But bossman says “be at work at 7”
I would argue, this is a bit of a different can of worms. What I am arguing for is to keep the clock in sync with science and have 12 o’clock be roughly at the time, when the sun is in it’s zenith. We shouldn’t just switch back and forth on the clock just because we feel like it, because then what is the point? The amount of sun we get in a day on any given longitude will not change just because we are dialing back and forth a time measurement device.
So have a summer schedule and a winter schedule with the bossman.
Why does some people’s employment issues have to be every person’s problem?
If your life is so flexible that time doesnt even matter, why do you care at all?
What? Where did I say that?
I’m saying that instead of the entire population having to change every single clock backwards and forwards every year. So that’s children, the sick, retired people, students, workers, unemployed, aristocrats, the fucking lot, everyone. That’s every computer, every clock, every embedded system.
Instead of that, jobs just say come in at 7 - 3 for half the year and 8 - 4 for the other half. Is that really such a difficult concept for them to adopt?
And you said it in response of someone that is against turning the clock. It reads as if you support switching times and that I should just go to work later of I have an issue with it.
DST is a major pain in the butt, getting rid of it simplifies a lot of things. Only problem is that everything still needs to take DST into account for all of history.