We’re working on it here in Colorado, but the two entrenched parties are fighting us tooth and nail. and don’t forget, Alaska has a measure on the ballot to repeal that this election.

I have given up talking to these people. I really can’t with Rule 3 because I do not believe they deserve any form of civility, and since I can’t call them out directly, I’ll ignore them while destroying their points.

The targets of my takedowns of the ‘Imma Vote Jill Stein!111one!1one!!’'s articles are the undecided and wavering voters who REALLY aren’t sold on Harris/Walz, but really don’t like Donald Trump. That’s where the ‘a vote for anyone but Harris/Walz just makes it easier for Donald Trump to steal the election’ line comes in. The ‘lost the plot/bad faith actor/naive poster’ people can’t be convinced, but we don’t have to, fortunately.

My thoughts as well. Trump did himself no favours with undecideds and independents with his inane rambling rants. For the most part, Harris just seemed content to use her time to press him and let him make a fool out of himself, with only a couple of instances popping up when she seemed to want to interject but couldn’t.

Dear reader,

I am writing to you today to remind you of how Russia intends on manipulating the election. Russia’s not the only one, but Russia’s got a vested interest in influencing our election.

Come next January, one of two people will take the Oath of Office. One of them is a neoliberal squishy centre-left politician with a history of saying anything to get elected, but taking the moderate approach. The other…is an Authoritarian shithead with a band of utter and complete assholes behind him that plan on grinding anyone and everyone that disagrees with them by any degree under a jackboot heel. And the Russians have a clear choice in this.

They want the guy who will let them take over Ukraine without interfering.

They like the guy that has the same opinions on gays and transgendered people that they do – something to be crushed and oppressed.

They want the guy who will tear down our alliances with other countries over money.

They want us to become isolated and withdraw from world affairs.

And they are willing to do anything necessary to make that happen.

And they have been caught in the act making that guy more likely to win.

The article lists 5 key ways by which they influence our elections. The one I want to focus the most on is the third one. “Adding fuel to the fire.” Here, we see their goal of amplifying our divisions. They definitely target the Right for this, making Conservatives beyond angry about LGBTQ issues, but they go beyond that to target divisions on the Left. One key way they do this is by convincing left-wing voters that their candidates aren’t ‘pure’ enough and thus they should stay home. And they do this by creating fake news outlets and leveraging mouthpieces here in the USA.

So, consider this when you see the 13th article in a day by a divisive personality here pushing the meme that you should vote third party or stay home because the Democrat isn’t liberal enough for them. While I will not, and indeed cannot directly call out any of these personalities as being part of the Russian Disinformation Operation due to the Civility Rule (and the fact that they may just be True Believers ™ in really stupid ideas), I can with certainty say that the Russians are trying to manipulate you out of your vote. Consider that as you read each of the articles these people are posting.

Wow. Thanks for doing all my work for me. Keep talking.

express the status quo reasoning prevalent among you.

🤣

I hear ya. Yeah, I do agree with ‘you shouldn’t make a political opinion based on what a celebrity does,’ but the reality is that people might waiver until they hear someone they like and trust (like a celebrity) makes a decision. Sad fact of life in this popularity contest we call a political system. ;)

This poster took one bullet point out of four to nitpick on, while ignoring everything else I posted. I wonder WHY, and you should to, dear reader.

Again. My sole goal is to get Trump away from office, and yes, if I have to work with Progressives, Moderates, Mainstream Democrats, Conservative Dems, and even moderate Republicans, I think we make that work. Actual Progressives feel that we’ve made real progress on a variety of issues, including Student Loans, Green Energy, and minority rights that will be reversed and reversed hard by a Trump admin. Rather than let this poster spew this nonsense unchallenged, I am here articulating where it is wrong and why you shouldn’t listen to it. Please keep this in mind as you read our exchanges, dear reader, and remember: There ARE factions out there trying to get you to throw your vote behind a Third Party or stay home, for the express goal of allowing Trump to steal the election and tear down everything you love. Remember that as you read posts that tell you vote Third Party or just stay home.

Nah, I’m not. I’m assuming you have an agenda you’re pushing, and I’m using the very post you said you read to point out that no, she’s not doing anything you’re accusing her of, and she doesn’t owe you, or anyone else, anything. And I’m doing so not to change your mind, but to inform anyone else who stumbles across your posts that you’re not being forthright and honest with your claims, and that she’s merely saying “I’m voting for this choice” because some jackwagon with some AI skills made a fake video of her saying “I’m voting for the other choice.” That’s all.

At this point, I’m not talking to you anymore, just using your words as examples of arguments that get Trump elected.

I think you forgot the /s.

Ironically, Taylor Swift was, up to this point, trying very hard NOT to use her platform. Just read her post. She’s BEGGING the reader not to blindly follow her in voting, and do their own research and make their own choice. She’d said she’d wait until after her tour to endorse a candidate (which would have been after the election 🤣 ), but she says in her post that the AI DeepFake Endorsement she ‘made’ of Trump compelled her to give up her secret ballot and outright state she’s voting for Harris.

I’m going to take a stab at interpreting Crashhumbc’s post.

Politics is a popularity contest. You’re imploring Swift to write a fully cited research paper with academic rigor to justify her vote. Most people just go into the ballot box and pick the name that appeals the most to them. You are unrealistic in your evaluation of people, and hold major influencers (aka Celebrities) to standards that nobody else will.

Taylor Swift is a pretty blonde girl with a hot body, and a rocking singing voice and dancing skill to make the most of that hot body. Her original plan was to withhold her voting choice until after the election so she could focus on her current tour and not get right-wing agitators harming her or her fans. But then somebody made a DeepFake of her endorsing Trump, and she had no choice.

She explicitly does not want to tell her fans how to vote. She starts with that, reiterates it throughout her screed, and ends with it. But she makes it clear she’s NOT endorsing Trump, but instead, voting against him.

Will her fans change their votes based on what she’s said she’s going to do? Yes. Unfortunately. They’ll not read the three+ times she says “vote for who you think the best choice is, not who I think the best choice is”, and only see her “I am voting Harris/Walz.” You can’t expect her to be responsible for her fans’ poor choice in decision making, though. She’s not telling you how to vote, and she doesn’t want you to vote with her. That’s a huge part of why she said she’d not release her voting choice ‘until after her tour’ (which ends after the election). Had the Deepfakers not made a video of her endorsing Trump, we’d still probably be guessing at who she supports.

So, let’s break down her post, because I’m sure you didn’t read it.

• She watched the debate, and asks for all voters to research the candidates and make their own conclusions.

Literally, her first paragraph is an appeal to each and every American to research the issues and the candidates and come to their own conclusions. Nowhere does she opt to tell you how to vote. In fact, she says repeatedly to do your own research and make your own choice.

• An AI DeepFake of her endorsing Trump encouraged her to come out and make her voting choice clear.

She explained the problems with DeepFakes and AI bullshit, and used that as a justification for revealing what is normally a secret ballot. She didn’t want to endorse anyone. In fact, it was stated she’d keep her mouth shut about her politics to protect her fans until her current tour was done (elsewhere, not in this thread) which meant she was initially planning on not revealing her choice at all, which most voters actually do, since our ballots are secret and all. But when Trump claimed her (fake) endorsement, she had to stop and set the record straight, despite not wanting to bring the backlash on her fans.

• Her voting choice is for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. She’s even listed some of her reasons, including Walz’ support for LGBQ rights, women’s rights, and other choices he’s made for decades, and keeping the chaos of Donald Trump and the GQP away from the levers of power in the US.

She doesn’t go deeper into this, admittedly and maybe even unfortunately, just saying she believes Harris/Walz is the better choice to run the country for the next 4 years. She basically just lays out what motivated her to pick the team she did, and why she didn’t pick the other team (Team Chaos). But there’s a reason for this!

• She implores you to do your research and make your choice, like she did her research and made her choice. She reminds you that whatever choice you make, you need to make sure you are registered, and says she will link registration processes to her story in the future.

Nowhere in any of this does she tell you who to vote for. She doesn’t want to. She just asks you to do your research, both on the candidates and issues, AND on how to properly cast your vote this election. I’m sure if you popped up on her thread and said you were going to vote for whatever candidate, she’d say ‘good on you, make sure you are making the right choice, and check these links to verify you can actually vote!’ She seems to be the kind of person that lets you make your own decisions.

Will Swifties see her voting for Harris as a justification for voting for Harris? Probably. I hope she continues emphasising that people should make up their own minds based on their own research, while advocating for harm reduction and de-chaosing. That seems to be in line with how she functions. And you should never base what your vote is going to be on how someone else votes. I would have liked to have seen a more detailed breakdown of her decision and a link to the sources she made her decisions off of, but let’s get real. MANY people don’t have an academic background and know how to cite their sources, so…yeah. I won’t expect it from Taylor Swift.

In conclusion, she’s not giving ‘reasoning for her perspective’ because she’s not telling you who to vote for. She’s saying who she’s voting for because AI put words in her mouth that the major candidate most opposed to her positions used to claim her endorsement. That’s all.

I care about one thing above everything else – Keeping Donald Trump away from the levers of power. And I have good reasons for this:

• My wife is a Black bisexual Goth Pagan. That’s at least three hates from Team Trump.
• I have Student Loans. I can repay them at 5% of my income, but 10% will become too much of a burden. And I’d really like to get my 120 payments in to get the rest wiped out.
• I care about the future of the planet. Having a guy raging against Solar and Wind for stupid made up reasons in office doesn’t support that goal.
• I care about keeping Russia out of Ukraine and Israel out of Palestine. While I also care about keeping Hamas out of Israel, I think Trump is bad for ALL those goals.

And that’s just the short list.

I support Biden and his successor Harris on the merits, too. The Chips Act is a great win for really getting microchips made in the US. Biden’s done a damn good job on investing in US infrastructure, which is an important thing to me. His attempts to deal with Student Loans are a big part of why I have stopped taking night classes and reentered repayment. And he’s doing a damn fine job overall. But again. My goal above all other goals is keeping Trump away from the White House.

• A vote for RFK Jr. is not going to accomplish this. Not only is he an anti-evidence candidate pushing BS conspiracy theory positions and only a few steps to the left of Trump et al, he’s also not going to win, and the most he could do is poach enough left-leaning votes with his last name to get Trump in office.
• A vote for Jill Stein is not going to accomplish this. Not only is she a sycophant for Putin and a peddler of disinformation herself (reasons alone to vote against her), her position as an alternative to the Mainstream Left-Most candidate is just another way to steal enough left-wing votes to … get Trump into office.
• A vote for Cornel West is not going to accomplish this. While I admire the man, the reality is that he doesn’t have enough access to have even a remote chance of winning the Presidency, and his run only ensures that votes that would have gone to Harris end up going to him, lowering the threshold at which Trump can steal the Presidency…getting Trump into office.
• Staying home is not going to accomplish this. All it does is lowers Harris’ vote count, making it easier for Trump to steal the Presidency…getting Trump into office.

My goal is to ensure my Black bisexual goth pagan wife doesn’t get ground under the bootheels of Trumpian Authoritarianism. One of the ways I do this is by debunking posts like this. I don’t care about winning. I care about Trump losing. And I don’t see wisdom here. I see…well, Rule 3 so I can’t say what I exactly see here, but it’s not wisdom or any of its synonyms. I see a willing dismissal of truth here, a poster arguing to give the election to Trump because the Democratic candidate isn’t EXACTLY what they demanded. And agency? Pal, nobody’s holding a gun to your head and saying you MUST vote Harris. Do any of the options I mentioned above, or go ahead and vote Trump, or any other silly ‘protest’ vote you want. We’re just here saying that you’re gonna get Trump for all of us and screw over a whole bunch of people you claim to support.

If you live there, please work to bring this vision into reality!

I’m all for having an honest debate about our politicians, and calling them out when they cowtow to the other side and either don’t lay down their policies to be held accountable or end up not doing what they promise, and in a Bush v. Gore situation, I’d even condone punishing Team Blue in one election to encourage them to be more Blue next election, but I’m not sure that that’s the smartest policy when Team Red has gone full Fascist. We get 2024 wrong, we may not get a 2026 or 2028 to fix it.

And to understand the downvotes, you have to understand the environment right now. Russia’s got a vested interest in the US falling to Authoritarianism. Trump wins in November, it’s only a matter of time until Russia snatches up parts of, if not all of, Ukraine, and wins a bigger seat at the International table as Trump turns a blind eye to Russia’s adventures in the world. Their strategy is to rally right-wing voters behind Trump, while distract Lefties with things like the war in Palestine, not getting exactly what they want domestically, and whatever else the Russians can dig up to shut down the Left as they work on revving up the Right. While I’m not saying EVERY criticism of a Leftie by a Leftie is Russian propaganda, I AM saying that there’s an awful lot of Russian propaganda posing as Left-Wing criticism of Kamala Harris, and this all serves the goal of depressing Left-Wing participation in the election so the Authoritarians can win.

Lemmy ‘voters’ are expressing that they think RangerJosie is either a right-wing plant, a ‘useful idiot’ Leftie, or a Russian troll (or bot). Each of these are bad in their own ways, and all three lead to the same outcome – an authoritarian takeover of the government that will leave lefties high and dry for a long while. Your own downvotes are coming from people who think you’re aiding Trump and are dishonest about your intentions, and you sure don’t help yourself with your replies.

And you’re bitching about modding? The moderators shut down any attempt to call out the paid actors or bots over ‘civility’. They sure aren’t shutting down the dishonest attempts by Russia to shut down Left-wingers and amplify authoritarians.

My comment to him?

“You vote with them and for their principles. Thus you have zero room to cry about how much of a scumbag they are, because you’re the same through both action and association.”

My comment to them?

“If the shoe fits, assholes, wear it.”

If you live in PA, then turn out, and get all your friends to turn out. This is true no matter where you live, but PA is even more so. And this is the plural you, just to make that clear.

And let’s get real. Contrary to what some … people in this forum say, no, we are not saying she’s a good person or a nice person. We’re saying we agree with her that Trump is a cancer on the country. And many of us are calling everyone that led up to this out, so it’s not like she’s getting a pass or anything. Quite literally, what the person you replied to is replying to is saying “I don’t like her politics” and the other person calls out the fact that her dad’s politics is what made Trump possible. The argument that we support the Cheney’s is a strawman made of lies. We don’t. We just agree with THIS conclusion that if you want to stop Trump, you need to more than stay home or vote third party. But then again, these posters are all the usual ones trying to depress the Democratic turnout because ‘they ain’t liberal enough’ and so they want to make sure that Liz’s and Dick’s message doesn’t get out!

Ain’t that the truth…