You’ll probably find that a lot of planets in Starfield are pretty boring, but Bethesda says that’s kind of the point.
I haven’t played the game, only been watching a streamer play it, but I think arguments like “it’s boring on purpose” are dumb.
Trying to convey the vastness of space and how small you are seems also somewhat undermined, if you’re just constantly fast traveling everywhere, and it seems like you’re made out to be the most important person in the universe, since everyone is screwed without you, but that’s just most games.
It’s dumb because that’s a fringe argument that I hear people reference as absurd more than I’ve ever encountered it. In fact, I have yet to see one person make that justification. I’m just assuming that argument exist somewhere because so many people have complained about it.
Starfield is yet another example of gamers getting outraged over a perceived reception, no matter how large or small that group actually is. I’m sure there are people out there making really bad defenses of the game, but the people who are angry at those people are much louder and far more numerous. 
Most people who are playing and enjoying the game are probably perfectly capable of seeing and articulating some of the issues, but just because a game has issues doesn’t mean it’s “literally unplayable“ or whatever people like to say now. 
I don’t know I just find these back-and-forth so repetitive. Every single game release you see this. The answer is Starfield is a perfectly fine, flawed game, that different people will react to differently. Just like any piece of media.
I spent all morning dunking on the game’s issues and Bethesda’s design philosophy with some friends… But ultimately I’m having a ton of fun with the game, glad I broke my rules and purchased it early, and finding it basically fulfills the things I wish both outer worlds and no man’s sky had delivered on. It’s a good game, and it is exactly what it says it is (as far as I know. I haven’t paid a lick of attention to the ad hype): a Bethesda style open world rpg.
I don’t really want to like it over the small studio titles that it clearly builds on, but them’s the breaks. If you’re looking for a Bethesda style open world RPG set in a sci fi world, then this game will probably be fun for you, and if you think all Bethesda style games are garbage and can’t get past their very odd design choices, then why are you ranting about starfield since obviously it’s going to be that.
Lotta people just love to hate Bethesda. Including me really… but this ain’t it.
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The thing with No Man’s Sky is that it’s supposed to be in the vein of old pulp sci-fi which was usually quite scientifically inaccurate and more fantasy and philosophy.
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When’s the last time you played? I ask because there are “dead” systems - no conflict, no economy, not even a space station. If you haven’t played in a while, you might want to boot it up again. A lot has changed!
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Sounds legit
It’s game of the century in my book. These complaints are shallow. I spent 20 hours exploring and these complaints hold no weight. There is plenty, go find stuff. I have 2 huge ship’s just from exploring planets. I have full legendary gear. All from planet hopping.
Exploring planets is cool as fuck especially when you go across environments.
Moons are especially fun and hold all sorts of secrets.
If you find a note about a secret base, pursue it.
Bethesda did a good job. I have played SC and SB2 and while I like how they do space travel, the rest of their game sucks by comparison. Bethesda really knocked it out of the park.
Bethesda did a good job. I have played SC and SB2 and while I like how they do space travel, the rest of their game sucks by comparison. Bethesda really knocked it out of the park.
This. Just exploring the first POI after leaving the tutorial I thought to myself, “This is how SC, NMS, and ED should have done their ground FPS exploration and combat.” The FPS gameplay is much better than Fallout 4/76, Bethesda improved that aspect a good amount. And with any Fallout/Scoll game, I love the clutter loot. I’m now 42 hours into the game, lots of new Bethesda style detailed POIs to discover and explore. People complaining about empty moons/planets are ignoring the hand crafted content and focusing on the unpainted mod canvas… or to give them a bit of a pass they have never played ED, NMS, or SC as those have lots of empty moons as well.
Game of the CENTURY? Come on now. There’s defending a game you like, but that’s a bit much.
“in my book” is a valuable phrase there. I also wouldn’t call it anything that extreme (and I like it) but it’s a good game, it’s not a stretch that someone might absolutely adore it.
Lol game of the century
i just did that secret base quest not too long ago, probably my favorite reward in any bethesda game thus far
I am confused by a lot of complaints about the game I’ve seen, namely “it feels barren”, “id rather have 3 good planets over the 1000 procedural generated ones”, and then theres the people with the same complaints they have every time bethesda releases something. I have seen only like 1 trailer for the game, kept away from all the press and whatnot and somehow I feel like I still had a better concept in my mind of what this game would be like than most others did? So many complaints I can just address as “it’s a bethesda space game, and this is what it’s supposed to be like”.
Many people don’t like fallout and elder scrolls, and that’s fine, but if you dislike those games why buy this one? Especially why in the hell would you PREORDER this one?
And secondly a lot of people ive seen talk about this have obviously never played a true space game before. I’ve played no mans sky, elite dangerous, empyrion, heck I’ve played most of them and they are all barren, that is the point. And if bethesda had hand crafted these planets we would have maybe idk, 5 planets id wager that we could actually explore, which is the total opposite for what bethesda wanted to do here.
So many complaints of this game I just feel are “well yeah, obviously” that I’m struggling to find the actual issues in the game. My only thing that bugs me so far is how I can’t fly around on the planets surface, and the lack of a dune buggy.
“So many complaints I can just address as “it’s a bethesda space game, and this is what it’s supposed to be like”.”
Why do you have such an incredibly low bar for Bethesda in particular? Demand better or you help make the entire video games industry worse.
They’re not saying a Bethesda game is supposed to be bad. They’re saying a Bethesda game is supposed to be… a first/third person western RPG with exploration and looter-sometimes-shooter elements and a heavy emphasis on skill checks. That’s been every one of their games since Morrowind besides FO76. Expecting different at this point would be asinine, especially considering Todd and Bethesda repeatedly said this was an RPG.
You’re misunderstanding. At this point “Bethesda game” is its own subgenre, and many complaints about this game are complaints about the subgenre itself. If you don’t like being the Big Special Hero, you won’t like this game. If you want the game to have rich, detailed combat that stays challenging throughout, it probably won’t be this one either
If you want a huge world with lots of curious little things to explore and more side quests than you can do in a lifetime, built on a backbone of a kind of flimsy story (imo not a terrible one this time) that you are mostly gonna skip out on to go do dungeon hops and loot accumulation, then you’re probably golden with this. And by now, most of us should know what we’re paying for, I think. As long as you expect and want what they consistently make, this game delivers very well
On top of that, the combat and general mechanics are just far better than the usual Bethesda offerings this time around. It’s fun to fight in zero g. It’s an absolute blast to disable an enemy ship and then board it. The side quests are legit quite fun and exciting, with NPCs I’ve found I really enjoy and want to see again.
As long as you expect a game that is like Bethesda makes, it’s a very nice and fun one that delivers more than I had expected from them by a long shot. If you expected a deep, hardcore indie gem, you’re going to be disappointed and also you’re maybe kind of a silly person. It’s a mass produced game for a large audience, that’s the stick by which to measure it.
At this point “Bethesda game” is its own subgenre, and many complaints about this game are complaints about the subgenre itself.
Bingo, that’s what I’m trying to say.
Feel like you’re misinterpreting what I’m saying, that statement is not to excuse bugs.
Demand better
Bro I am pleased with the game? I am having fun and I think it’s a good game, as the other guy who replied to you said my bar for this game has been either met or exceeded. I hold bethesda to the same bar as other devs, and people painting this to be as bad as the fo4 or f76 launches are just wrong from everything ive played and seen. Any bug I’ve had has been purely visual and did not hamper my gameplay, and in 20ish hours I’ve had one crash. And this is on linux even, which makes how stable the game has been even more impressive. Gameplaywise too I think it’s great fun.
you help make the entire video games industry worse.
For the record I would like more games like this one. I am the target audience for this game, I enjoy it, and if more devs made games like it I would be happy.
For the record I would like more games like this one. I am the target audience for this game, I enjoy it, and if more devs made games like it I would be happy.
That’s interesting. My personal impression was that, since the success of GTA3 and Skyrim, basically every AAA title has to be some kind of open world sandbox game with as many features as possible. Personally, I really dislike that; I want a tight narrative and strong core gameplay, and I couldn’t care less for stuff like crafting and base building. (I’m also a bit saddened by the way Bethesda took Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 in. I want to play RPGs, not looter shooters.)
Some studios, like Larian and Obsidian, are still making these games, so I’m happy with that. I really enjoyed Outer Worlds, even though people were criticizing it for being too confined (or maybe especially because it was confined). I’m hoping to get around to BG3 and DOS2 soon. But it feels like we’ve had a drought for more than a decade.
So anyway, I found it surprising to read that you feel there aren’t enough Bethesda-like games, because it feels to me like everyone is copying them. Of course, they are masters of their craft, so maybe the problem is that other studios just aren’t any good at it :P
My tastes have shifted a bit, kind of due to how bethesda has taken their games past few years. First rpg i fell in love with was new vegas, I adore that game and was really at first disappointed in how they handled fallout 4. But even though it wasn’t what I thought I wanted, fallout 4 does what it does better than any other similar game imo. That looter shooter gameplay loop with the settlements hooked me in after a little while, and now I’d rather have a game like that with complete freedom to do anything i want. It’s like comfort food for me that I can keep coming back to, don’t ask how many hours I have in fallout 4 lol.
Not to say I don’t enjoy those other games, I plan on getting baldurs gate 3 soon, my friend kind of sold me on it tonight, looks great. Outer Worlds man, I really want to enjoy but I’ve never gotten past 10 hours in save. As you said, it felt too confined for a game that gives you a freakin spaceship. You give me a spaceship, and I’m going to want to land anywhere and go anywhere, and that’s what Starfield does for me. I told a friend recently that Starfield is what I wanted Outer Worlds to be, but for the record i do fully intent to try and finish that game.
What were your favorite parts of outer worlds if i can ask?
So anyway, I found it surprising to read that you feel there aren’t enough Bethesda-like games, because it feels to me like everyone is copying them.
It’s funny you say that, cause I feel like no one else is doing what they do, atleast to the same caliber. We discussed outer worlds, other than that the only similar game I’ve really enjoyed was Kingdom Come Deliverance. That game is great, but it is pretty different, and doesn’t hold the same replay value.
What were your favorite parts of outer worlds if i can ask?
My usual way of playing RPGs is exploring the whole map, picking up every side quest I can find, and then doing them in an order that feels logical. Outer Worlds made that really rewarding: it’s actually possible to feel like you’ve covered the whole map and and all the content is interesting and fun.
Also, the story and the characters are great, and the game mechanics don’t get in the way (like how there are only three types of ammo and just no lockpicking minigame).
I think I liked the companion quests the most, because they really flesh out their characters.
The DLCs do turn into a bit of a slog near the end, when you’re just running through corridors shooting at stuff. But afterwards, your companions will want to talk about all the horrors they experienced, so at least you can share that feeling with them :P
It’s funny you say that, cause I feel like no one else is doing what they do, atleast to the same caliber. We discussed outer worlds, other than that the only similar game I’ve really enjoyed was Kingdom Come Deliverance. That game is great, but it is pretty different, and doesn’t hold the same replay value.
Kingdom Come: Deliverance is still on my backlog :) I started a playthrough a few years back, but the cut scenes were so long that real life kept getting in the way :P I only got to the castle after you flee from your village. Does it open up a lot after that?
Oof, beehaw only just gave me this notification.
I was disappointed in the exploration in outer worlds if i recall right, it felt closer to a bioware game like kotor than it did a bethesda game. Which is not inherently a bad thing, I like bioware games, just not as much as bethesda. This conversation does make me want to replay & reexplore this game, i recall loving how it looked visually.
he game mechanics don’t get in the way (like how there are only three types of ammo and just no lockpicking minigame)
I totally get that being a strong point for some, i however appreciate the complexity from things like starfield now having like 3 separate kinds of shotgun shells, not including all the other ammo.
I totally recommend Kingdom Come deliverance, it’s one of my favorites. The map opens up a good bit after the intro, and given that fast travel is risky in the game it makes it feel even larger. Yeah, the cutscenes can get real long, but i was pleased with the story and the voice acting so i didnt mind too much, even if Henry can be a little dull at times.
Oof, beehaw only just gave me this notification.
Haha, I’m also not getting any notifications because my app doesn’t support them yet xD Better late than never!
it felt closer to a bioware game like kotor than it did a bethesda game.
Now that you mention it, it does! I really liked the KotOR games, so that’s probably why Outer Worlds clicked as much for me as it did. I did try replaying KotOR a while ago, but I was bothered by how old it felt. I’ve never finished Mass Effect though, so maybe I should. And Dragon Age: Origins is said to be the last “real” Bioware RPG, so that’s also interesting.
It’s just too bad those games are all so old. I’m currently playing Fallout: New Vegas because I’d never finished it and I’m trying to get into a habit of actually finishing games, but the transition back from OW to FNV was quite a shock. It’s not just graphics; older UIs can be really bad. I tried getting back into a game of Fallout 1, but it felt like just playing the game cost way too much effort.
I totally recommend Kingdom Come deliverance, it’s one of my favorites.
Thanks for the rec! I’ve put it a bit higher on my backlog, after Disco Elysium and BG3. Great stuff ahead :)
My bar for their games is high and its been exceeded. I would be happier if it had every feature I can dream up but if I wanted a game that had an infinite scope and an endless development cycle I’d just pay $10k for a ship in star citizen and hope it releases before I die. Thankfully I’m able to enjoy a game made by one of the most lauded and successful video game developers in the world and not be a curmudgeon about it.
Not trying to be a dick, just seems like everyone else is. Don’t buy it if you need x feature and it isn’t there, maybe they will learn a lesson and make the game you wanted them to next time.
Well said, and yeah
Not trying to be a dick, just seems like everyone else is.
sums up how I feel about this game’s reception so far pretty well.
Yeah I think it’s less that people are setting unrealistic expectations for a Bethesda game, and more that people are getting fed up with being told they should be happy with all the faults “because it’s Bethesda”.
Bethesda gets a really weird pass in the gaming industry and when it comes to shallow content and bugs. I think a lot of that comes from the modability of their games, so that with mods and a few years of patches, the games often end up being a lot of fun - but the fact is that the games themselves, as released by Bethesda are usually hollow shells by comparison.
For instance it always irks me when people say Skyrim VR is the best VR game - you literally need a couple dozen mods just to make it function as an actual VR game (lack of 3d audio in a VR game is just unforgivable imo, let alone any actual physics interactions).
I think people are just starting to get fed up with Bethesda’s business model of building barebones games and counting on modders to make it fun. And then people get further fed up when they say so online and get told things like “but yeah it’s Bethesda, what did you expect?”
As you can see in the other replies, I don’t think that’s what people mean at all.
I haven’t had a single serious bug in thirty odd hours so far. I, and others here, aren’t saying it’s a good game “despite it all”, we’re saying it’s a good game on its own, but if you were looking for something that is in a different style than Bethesda makes, you’re barking up the wrong tree. It’s a simplistic mass appeal looter shooter rpg in space. It’s a good one of those. It’s also subject to all the expected limitations of a game like this, that’s all. It’s not going to be something it’s not. If you expected to pay for a good one of the kind of looter shooter RPGs we expect from this company, it is what you paid for.
I do wish I had a ground vehicle yeah.
I spent five hours exploring Nesoi where my house is yesterday, largely so long because there were a few unique biomes to check out and then I happened on a random quest that had interesting stories and voiced lore snippets and things, and took me some time to complete. Also hooked into another off world quest that I’m not done yet but has been really fun.
I would put it on a very similar level to NMS, in that the world does get samey after a while… But there are biomes on the planet, so at least I can find mountains and deserts and things. Looking forward to whatever mods or dlc increase the baseline biodiversity on lush worlds but I think five hours contendedly exploring a single planet is a pretty good stat at launch to be honest. Plus the quests are actually fun and good and there’s combat with more than one kind of enemy.
A lot of people seem to want this game to do poorly, half the comments complaining about it also say that they haven’t played it yet.
Honestly, avoid Lemmy and Reddit for reviews on this game. The absolute vitriol it’s gotten here has just pushed me beyond trusting any of them. (and yes, they all end with “I mean I haven’t played it.”)
I have played it. 8 hours in so far, it’s fun. I won’t say it’s “redefining RPGs” for me or anything, but I’m having a good time playing around. To others here on Lemmy I am now the worst person on the planet.
Also avoid the Steam discussion forum. Awful awful place right now.
Have you ever seen a steam discussion forum that isn’t?
Steam off topic pre-2013 was a gold mine.
It’s the same people that have been bashing Bethesda for years now, they don’t care whether the game is actually good or not, they just want to bash the people behind it.
I’ll play it for myself on gamepass and see what I think, discussion around it has been worthless here.
I mean, isn’t it still only available to those who paid extra? That’s probably why you see so many people wanting to discuss it without having played it yet…
Yeah, but maybe they should wait until the game is out before bashing it.
Personally, I try to see it positive. They want to protect others from being disappointed from yet another Bethesda game. I got burned by Skyrim in my youth, so when I see Todd Howard spitting straight lies again, I’ll try to save others the disappointment.
Now that Starfield is public, I feel like people can at least try to form an own opinion, but if only the people who are willing to pay extra talk about it, then you’ve only got Bethesda fans talking.
People complaining about planets not having anything fun to do have never played Elite Dangerous.
Just the fact you’re exploring a new planet, to me is a cool feeling.
I’ve had this same thought since Starfield came out. Go play ED: Odyssey and then complain about how plain and boring planets are.
You are all saying that both games have boring, procedurally generated planets. Sounds like both games were designed with boring elements people don’t want. Just because ED is more boring, doesn’t mean Starfield is good.
The point isn’t that ED being boring makes Starfield good. The point is that space exploration is mostly boring, and ED exemplifies that well. If I wanted unrealistic space exploration, I’d just play No Man’s Sky.
I guess there’s an argument that boring space exploration has an audience. I just didn’t think that overlapped much with Bethesda’s audience.
Imo its nice to just pop some chill music on and just fly/ explore around without thinking too much… keeps ur eyes busy while listening lol
I mean, I never thought ED boring, I kind of enjoyed seeing new planets.
I joined an expedition of 2 no ths out in the black, exploring out there. Enjoyed all of it.
There’s ways to make places feel barren, open, unexplored and still be interesting. I’ve played several games that had sections that were essentially “empty” but still hand designed to be interesting. We don’t need 1000 planets, we need good content.
One of the primary reasons people like Bethesda games is that they give players a large world to explore that’s jam-packed with interesting things to see a do. If Bethesda abandons that and admits that majority of the content they expect players to interact with is going to be boring, procedurally-generated, then why should people play Starfield?
Bethesda isn’t known for deep, complex stories. Their best writing is traditionally their side content with main stories panned. Their combat is pretty basic, but functional. Their RP is pretty sad and NPCs could be a lot better, especially these days. So it seems Bethesda has given away their biggest plus: an interesting world to explore.
The best part is, they already made a game with a gigantic world full of procedurally-generated content: Daggerfall, which is remembered fondly for a reason.
Funny you say that, Daggerfall is fondly remembered but only in spite of it’s procedurally generated overworld. Daggerfall’s openworld is extraordinarily barren, remarkably so. You literally will get lost if you walk more than 5 minutes from a town, and not in a fun way but because every direction you look is literally the exact same three tree and rock sprites and you lose sense of direction. Daggerfall’s overworld is so bare and empty and large it actively encourages you to engage in the fast travel system with fleshed out gameplay mechanics like camping supplies and vehicles.
Try walking everywhere in Daggerfall and you’ll spend minutes seeing basically nothing, it’s a huge part of why the map feels so huge, it actually is.
To chime in, I think a lot of this kind of discourse is just based on what you’re looking for in a game.
In American Truck Simulator, one of the DLC’s is the state of Wyoming, which is remarkably barren. It’s the least populous state in the whole country, and many of it’s “biggest cities” don’t even top out over 100,000 people. If you look at the reviews for it, it’s actually somewhat divisive. A lot of people criticize it for being “boring,” but that’s also how Wyoming is in real life, having driven across the state partially myself. I think a lot of this has to do what people come into the game expecting. Some want to enjoy the game as a truck simulator and Wyoming offers plenty of space for that. Some also want to enjoy the game via other formats, such as the scenery, and Wyoming doesn’t excel that much in those areas.
My point being, I think it’s just hard to make claims about this thing because it’s all just subjectivity. I think if you make a black-and-white claim about this then you just aren’t thinking very rationally. Some people will like it and some people won’t. Such is life.
Bethesda game full of jank. Same as it ever was, Pikachu face.
That sounds like as good an excuse as any.
Who the Eff would expect planets to be like Disney World!?
“We could have made a game where there are four cities and four planets,”
Three planets and one gas giant (for now), Todd. And those probably have more diversity or non-boredness than your thousand planets.
As a very committed SC backer, I do not think that quote was directed at SC, I think that was just an honest assessment of the amount of work that handcrafted planets would have taken.
Could be, could not have been. But four planets and four cities was in my opinion quite specific.
A disclaimer: I havent played the game and probably wont for a few months to a year when its on steam sale so I’m going to just speak based on what the article is saying and experience with other games.
I think its a tricky balancing act to make when it comes to creating an open world game where you travel through space. Different games have approached it differently with some games opting to scale everything down super small and letting you suspend disbelief(like outer wilds) but that wouldnt work as well on a game like this. Other games go for the hub approach where your ship is a hub that connects you to different open maps on different planets. This approach also works in letting you travel the stars and lets the story do the heavy lifting of conveying scale, but it doesnt mesh with the bethesda open world style. Likewise it can also sometimes turn your ship into just a metroid style elevator and so instead of feeling how big the universe it you effortlessly fast travel across the galaxy. Other games fill the space by making big procedural generated never ending expanses, but that can be hit and miss and not really what a lot of people want in a game like this one.
I understand wanting to pad things out a little bit to prevent things from feeling toy like in the way that Outer Wilds did, but it does run the risk of just being boring and uninteresting and leave you wishing for a more “gamified” tighter experience or at least less openness and more zipping to the places that matter. That said if exploring is worthwhile it could make it less of a bummer. I think Wind Waker and breath of the Wild are good examples of this. Wind Waker’s sailing was notoriously long and boring when it came out, however while most of the islands are small rocks, they all have something. Some secret, some rabbit hole leading to something interesting, a piece of heart, a chest of ruppies, SOMETHING. If you engage with it and mark your map along the way, and explore then the mostly empty map becomes a little more engaging.
Likewise Breath of the wild’s map isnt full of little side stories and secret villages or anything so if you decide to go off into that distant peak it will usually be self motivation. That said the game does reward you every time even if it’s not a huge reward. You will find ruins of some mysterious lost nation, you will find ruins referencing past zelda games, and shrines, and even a stupid little korok puzzle. The little gamified reward for exploring the area makes it less barren and worth exploring. So if it’s more Wind waker island, or breath of the wild and less Mass Effect 1 I can see this empty areas working.
wow it’s just like playing Daggerfall again
