Virgin births exist in nature. There are entire species of lizards that are only composed of females, for example the mourning gecko lepidodactylus lugubris only reproduces via virgin birth.
Due to how parthogenesis works, individuals born through virgin births are always clones of the mother. Thus they are all females.
If (big if) Jesus existed and IF (even bigger if) he was conceived through a virgin birth, he therefore must have been biologically female since there were no male chromosomes involved in his conception. Hence, Jesus sex must have been female but his gender was male (he/him pronouns)… ergo he was a trans man.
If Jesus existed and was a biological male, he could not have been conceived through a virgin birth, the best explanation then is that either a) Mary had sex with Joseph, but then why the virgin birth story? Or b) Mary was an adulterer who concocted the “virgin birth” story to hide her adultery from Joseph.
Since explanation a) falls flat on it’s face, we are left with either 1) trans man or 2) Mary the adulterer.
Scholars unanimously agree that Jesus existed, was baptised and crucified. His followers had reason to believe that He rose from the dead as well.
You also left out explanation 0, which is that Jesus was conceived via the Holy Spirit. Jesus did have a Father - God. He is God from God. Joseph was also visited by an angel and I think we could probably take it as fact that they didn’t divorce (as we have records of Jesus being referred to a boy of Joseph) So no, this can’t cause a crisis of faith for a believer.
Miracles are called miracles for a reason- you are right that a virgin cannot give birth to a male without divine intervention (except from artificial insemination)
Because God is male. Man was created in God’s image, Jesus refers to God in heaven as Father, Jesus is a male (He was circumcised) and the Holy Spirit is also Male (as the Holy Spirit impregnated the Virgin Mary)
“Miracles” are only compelling to people who already believe.
They’re utterly unconvincing to anyone not indoctrinated, as proven by the fact that you don’t believe in Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon, or Muslim miracle accounts.
In this scenario, it was with someone who doesn’t believe.
And even then, if a dude performed a miracle in front of you like rising from the dead, wouldn’t you believe him?
I don’t believe in Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon or Muslim miracle accounts as I cannot find any compelling ones. I don’t believe in Islam because it completely contradicts the Bible whilst claiming the Bible is a correct revelation from God, and I don’t believe in white islam/mormonism because it hinges on one dude who was a known liar and con artist. Both of these prophets also conveniently lifted the polygamy rule. Hinduism claims Jesus is divine but just another way, while Jesus said He is the only way, and Buddhism claims Jesus was a good teacher and Bodhisvatta when Jesus Himself claimed to be God.
If you can find me compelling islamic, mormon, buddhist or hindu miracles, I’ll consider it.
Dude showed up with a message for peace, was murdered and his murder is celebrated. Literally, a bunch of people running around pretending that’s what he wanted. The propaganda is so strong that everyone just accepts it as fact.
It’s really not much different than claiming a women wanted to be sexually assaulted because of what she was wearing.
Mark 15:29-30
And those who passed by derided him, wagging their heads and saying, “Aha! You who would destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save yourself, and come down from the cross!”
Even the old testament shows it was voluntary
Isaiah 53:6-9
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people? And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Jesus claimed to be God
John 10:30
“I and the Father are one.”
John 8:57-58
So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Yeah, no shit. They wrote a bunch of books with varying accounts claiming exactly this. All retcon. All written decades after the events. The Bible is bullshit.
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father infinite; the Son infinite; and the Holy Ghost infinite. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity. Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.
Apart from whether or not The Holy Spirit proceeds from the son as well as The Father, opinion doesn’t differ and all Christians agree on the triune God.
Also not true. The Unitarian church is a reformed Christian branch, and there are more than one unitarian branches. The fact they seem like heretics to you doesn’t mean they’re not Chistians.
Is god also jesus and the holy spirit all at once?
Ah, yes, the holy Trinity.
The only thing that made less sense than a virgin birth or resurrection.
It still doesn’t make sense. Like from a narrative view either. It doesn’t help the story, or the belief it’s just a useless… Thing?
parthenogenesis – Jesus is a clone of Mary – which also make him canonically a trans man
the perfect push over the edge for the doubting christian in your life: was Jesus trans or was Mary an adulterer?
What’s the logic?
Virgin births exist in nature. There are entire species of lizards that are only composed of females, for example the mourning gecko lepidodactylus lugubris only reproduces via virgin birth.
Due to how parthogenesis works, individuals born through virgin births are always clones of the mother. Thus they are all females.
If (big if) Jesus existed and IF (even bigger if) he was conceived through a virgin birth, he therefore must have been biologically female since there were no male chromosomes involved in his conception. Hence, Jesus sex must have been female but his gender was male (he/him pronouns)… ergo he was a trans man.
If Jesus existed and was a biological male, he could not have been conceived through a virgin birth, the best explanation then is that either a) Mary had sex with Joseph, but then why the virgin birth story? Or b) Mary was an adulterer who concocted the “virgin birth” story to hide her adultery from Joseph.
Since explanation a) falls flat on it’s face, we are left with either 1) trans man or 2) Mary the adulterer.
Edit: correcting spelling mistakes
Scholars unanimously agree that Jesus existed, was baptised and crucified. His followers had reason to believe that He rose from the dead as well.
You also left out explanation 0, which is that Jesus was conceived via the Holy Spirit. Jesus did have a Father - God. He is God from God. Joseph was also visited by an angel and I think we could probably take it as fact that they didn’t divorce (as we have records of Jesus being referred to a boy of Joseph) So no, this can’t cause a crisis of faith for a believer.
Miracles are called miracles for a reason- you are right that a virgin cannot give birth to a male without divine intervention (except from artificial insemination)
Why did God create a bespoke Y chromosome just for Jesus? Why couldn’t Jesus have been born female? What would that change?
Did they crucify women back then?
Because God is male. Man was created in God’s image, Jesus refers to God in heaven as Father, Jesus is a male (He was circumcised) and the Holy Spirit is also Male (as the Holy Spirit impregnated the Virgin Mary)
“Miracles” are only compelling to people who already believe.
They’re utterly unconvincing to anyone not indoctrinated, as proven by the fact that you don’t believe in Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon, or Muslim miracle accounts.
I disagree. I believe because I’ve witnessed miracles.
In this scenario, it was with someone who doesn’t believe.
And even then, if a dude performed a miracle in front of you like rising from the dead, wouldn’t you believe him?
I don’t believe in Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon or Muslim miracle accounts as I cannot find any compelling ones. I don’t believe in Islam because it completely contradicts the Bible whilst claiming the Bible is a correct revelation from God, and I don’t believe in white islam/mormonism because it hinges on one dude who was a known liar and con artist. Both of these prophets also conveniently lifted the polygamy rule. Hinduism claims Jesus is divine but just another way, while Jesus said He is the only way, and Buddhism claims Jesus was a good teacher and Bodhisvatta when Jesus Himself claimed to be God.
If you can find me compelling islamic, mormon, buddhist or hindu miracles, I’ll consider it.
for what?
How does it debunk Christianity?
it doesn’t debunk, it raises additional questions. if you’re all in, “it’s a miracle” is a good enough explanation.
It makes sense in the context of an infinite being existing in numerous places at once. It’s not useless as it shows God Himself died for our sins
That’s all retconning.
Dude showed up with a message for peace, was murdered and his murder is celebrated. Literally, a bunch of people running around pretending that’s what he wanted. The propaganda is so strong that everyone just accepts it as fact.
It’s really not much different than claiming a women wanted to be sexually assaulted because of what she was wearing.
No?
Mark 15:29-30 And those who passed by derided him, wagging their heads and saying, “Aha! You who would destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save yourself, and come down from the cross!”
Even the old testament shows it was voluntary
Isaiah 53:6-9 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people? And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Jesus claimed to be God
John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”
John 8:57-58 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Yeah, no shit. They wrote a bunch of books with varying accounts claiming exactly this. All retcon. All written decades after the events. The Bible is bullshit.
Unlike most of history for that time, which was usually written centuries after the events.
He is whatever you want them to be.
No! It can’t be!
What is it?
It can’t be!
What did you do Ray?
Oh no!
It’s the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
Yes.
Thruth is, opinions differ a lot among christians when it comes to trinity. You should respect other views (and not just the christian ones).
Apart from whether or not The Holy Spirit proceeds from the son as well as The Father, opinion doesn’t differ and all Christians agree on the triune God.
That’s simply not true, unitarians disagree with the trinity thing.
Unitarianism is a completely different religion 🤦 even Islam is closer to Christianity than to Unitarianism
Also not true. The Unitarian church is a reformed Christian branch, and there are more than one unitarian branches. The fact they seem like heretics to you doesn’t mean they’re not Chistians.
Christians worship Christ. Unitarians do not.
Unitarians are a Christian branch whether you like it or not. For anyone interested, here’s more info: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism