Do I think a trailblazing men’s dating column is going to suddenly solve the so-called crisis in male emotional communication? No.
This is really interesting considering the points they bring up in the article. This one in particular:
“If it’s going well, it comes off braggy and vulgar, and if it’s going poorly, stop whinging in print.”
Men attempting to communicate their experiences are immediately judged for it. Here’s another one:
“Paradoxically, the sort of men who have the insight and sensitivity to write well about that experience preclude themselves from doing it exactly because of the sensitivity and awareness that would make their writing insightful,”
So male sensitivity and awareness means men not talking about things? That doesn’t sound healthy.
I think a good model for a dating community would be the /r/daddit subreddit. Here’s men communicating emotions in a male-oriented space, getting helpful support and feedback from a welcoming community. Another great one for this was /r/bigdickproblems. Aside from the pervs asking for dick pics in DMs it was full of helpful advice about sex.
I think a good model for a dating community would be the /r/daddit subreddit. Here’s men communicating emotions in a male-oriented space, getting helpful support and feedback from a welcoming community.
I think this is a very salient point. Most of the positive male content on social media are people in long term committed relationships with their partner, and are focused on how they uplift and adore their partner. Or conversely, it’s men helping other men to do things like lift heavy things and put them back down again. Helping others at the expense of yourself, your time, your emotional energy, etc. is what is often celebrated in men’s spaces. Women are allowed to celebrate themselves, their strength and their struggles in a way that is rarely afforded to men, likely because of power imbalances laid out by the author.
The criticism tends to mostly occur in spaces where masculinity is equated with some form of sexism or bigotry or flaunting of power. The sexism part and the imbalance of power with regards to gender is what makes writing about dating and romantic feelings so tricky. Some topics would become off limits for fear of being associated with toxic behavior - a woman writing about sexual promiscuity might be celebrated for embracing feminism, sex worker rights, and so on, whereas a straight man writing about sexual promiscuity would likely be labeled a womanizer. Similarly, complaining about the toxic behavior of men is often allowed (although it sure garners a lot of highly engaged male responses) or even celebrated when it’s done tactfully enough, whereas criticism of toxic behavior of women in dating by a straight man would be much more widely criticized and quickly labeled as incel behavior.
It leaves a really small needle to thread, or an exceptionally verbose and emotionally intelligent individual to thread it. Whereas a woman might get away with more generalizations about toxic male behavior and have it generally understood to not be a statement which is intended to represent all male behavior, a man decrying a similar pattern would likely have to spend a few paragraphs talking about imbalances of power in gender dynamics and make it clear that pointing out this behavior is not meant to represent an opinion which applies to all women they encounter. It’s a lot of emotional bandwidth and labor to need to perform in order to share relationship woes and stories which seems like a rather high cost of entry to me.
Helping others at the expense of yourself, your time, your emotional energy, etc. is what is often celebrated in men’s spaces. Women are allowed to celebrate themselves, their strength and their struggles in a way that is rarely afforded to men, likely because of power imbalances laid out by the author.
It feels like in the dating world, men are valued by what they can do and women are valued for what they are. The old trope of “Mom’s going to be so happy I’m marrying a doctor” still applies in a lot of places. Conversely, a man is considered a success if he’s dating a particularly attractive woman. You also see this in hetero couples where the woman makes significantly more than man, which can cause all kinds of internal and external friction.
While this is symptomatic of the power imbalance, we need to be able to have a conversation about it before we can start breaking that imbalance.
It leaves a really small needle to thread, or an exceptionally verbose and emotionally intelligent individual to thread it.
Absolutely. And not only would a column like that be painful to write, it wouldn’t be very fun to read either.
I’d also add that men today are pretty fucking horrible. I’m a man and even I don’t like being around them. If there was a dating column that threaded that needle I don’t think most men would read it, and if they did they’d dismiss it as beta garbage.
Absolutely. And not only would a column like that be painful to write, it wouldn’t be very fun to read either.
I think you are totally correct about this. I also think that most columns that are exclusive about someone own dating behavior can get old fast anyhow. It feels like they are doing things just for the story.
It would work best as Q&A type column and would be great if it had a non-traditional bent. Like the male author was Bi, polyamorous or kinky to have a specific bent about it.
This is really interesting considering the points they bring up in the article. This one in particular:
Men attempting to communicate their experiences are immediately judged for it. Here’s another one:
So male sensitivity and awareness means men not talking about things? That doesn’t sound healthy.
I think a good model for a dating community would be the /r/daddit subreddit. Here’s men communicating emotions in a male-oriented space, getting helpful support and feedback from a welcoming community. Another great one for this was /r/bigdickproblems. Aside from the pervs asking for dick pics in DMs it was full of helpful advice about sex.
I think this is a very salient point. Most of the positive male content on social media are people in long term committed relationships with their partner, and are focused on how they uplift and adore their partner. Or conversely, it’s men helping other men to do things like lift heavy things and put them back down again. Helping others at the expense of yourself, your time, your emotional energy, etc. is what is often celebrated in men’s spaces. Women are allowed to celebrate themselves, their strength and their struggles in a way that is rarely afforded to men, likely because of power imbalances laid out by the author.
The criticism tends to mostly occur in spaces where masculinity is equated with some form of sexism or bigotry or flaunting of power. The sexism part and the imbalance of power with regards to gender is what makes writing about dating and romantic feelings so tricky. Some topics would become off limits for fear of being associated with toxic behavior - a woman writing about sexual promiscuity might be celebrated for embracing feminism, sex worker rights, and so on, whereas a straight man writing about sexual promiscuity would likely be labeled a womanizer. Similarly, complaining about the toxic behavior of men is often allowed (although it sure garners a lot of highly engaged male responses) or even celebrated when it’s done tactfully enough, whereas criticism of toxic behavior of women in dating by a straight man would be much more widely criticized and quickly labeled as incel behavior.
It leaves a really small needle to thread, or an exceptionally verbose and emotionally intelligent individual to thread it. Whereas a woman might get away with more generalizations about toxic male behavior and have it generally understood to not be a statement which is intended to represent all male behavior, a man decrying a similar pattern would likely have to spend a few paragraphs talking about imbalances of power in gender dynamics and make it clear that pointing out this behavior is not meant to represent an opinion which applies to all women they encounter. It’s a lot of emotional bandwidth and labor to need to perform in order to share relationship woes and stories which seems like a rather high cost of entry to me.
It feels like in the dating world, men are valued by what they can do and women are valued for what they are. The old trope of “Mom’s going to be so happy I’m marrying a doctor” still applies in a lot of places. Conversely, a man is considered a success if he’s dating a particularly attractive woman. You also see this in hetero couples where the woman makes significantly more than man, which can cause all kinds of internal and external friction.
While this is symptomatic of the power imbalance, we need to be able to have a conversation about it before we can start breaking that imbalance.
Absolutely. And not only would a column like that be painful to write, it wouldn’t be very fun to read either.
I’d also add that men today are pretty fucking horrible. I’m a man and even I don’t like being around them. If there was a dating column that threaded that needle I don’t think most men would read it, and if they did they’d dismiss it as beta garbage.
I think you are totally correct about this. I also think that most columns that are exclusive about someone own dating behavior can get old fast anyhow. It feels like they are doing things just for the story.
It would work best as Q&A type column and would be great if it had a non-traditional bent. Like the male author was Bi, polyamorous or kinky to have a specific bent about it.
I think it’s more that sensitive men are less willing to come off as braggy and vulgar. Not that Sensitivity = Quietness
BDP was interesting like ten years ago, then it went to center on not bragging/bragging and even shaming. Well that was what I felt anyways.
It’s like being tall, can’t complain without acknowledge you’re lucky being tall (so the actual problem just goes out the window).