• Safeguard@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    28
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    At the moment, I’m ashamed, sad, and gloomy about the future. Its a proven fact that Putin is in control of this party. Which is why this party wants to stop sending f16’s to Ukraine.

    This is bad. Very very bad.

    • Mopswasser@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      Could you come to me and make sense of Putin controlling the party and at the same time being staunchly pro Israel and issuing things like this:

      On the eastern side of Europe, a major war is raging between Russia and Ukraine after the Russian aggressor unlawfully invaded Ukraine.

      Seriously, discourse here is absolutely broken.

        • Mopswasser@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          9
          ·
          1 year ago

          A Kreml connected agency inviting individuals to speeches etc. might prove that Russia tries to exert influence. The PVV’s actual party line is still grossly at odds with Russian policy. But sure, that’s part of the Deep Kremlin’s smokescreen …

          • tryptaminev 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🇪🇺@feddit.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            ·
            1 year ago

            https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/22/geert-wilders-profile-netherlands-elections-far-right

            In Kyiv, which has faced growing western war fatigue, the results will be met with worry. Like other far-right leaders on the continent, Wilders has praised Vladimir Putin’s rule, rallying against what he has described as “hysterical Russophobia” in Europe.

            Four years after Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula, Wilders travelled to Moscow and met senior Russian officials in the Duma, a trip that was fiercely condemned by relatives of Dutch victims of the shooting-down of flight MH17, who blamed him for ignoring Moscow’s part in the disaster.

            Since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Wilders has somewhat distanced himself from the Kremlin, calling the invasion a mistake.

            But a government under Wilders is unlikely to play the same role in aiding Ukraine as seen under longtime prime minister Mark Rutte, who led the effort to deliver F-16 combat aircraft to Ukraine.

            In one of the last debates prior to the elections, Wilders said he would not support sending Ukraine more weapons, a statement that will send a chill through Ukraine, as military aid already appears to be faltering.

            Wilders is a fascist. He probably lies a dozen times between waking up and his first coffee.

            Looking at his actions it is clear, that he changed rhetoric on the current sentiment to get elected, but he aims to undermine Ukraine support.

          • Safeguard@beehaw.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Sure, but ties with Russia is not BS and not a “broke discourse”, there definitely is something there. And we need more discourse about it.

              • Safeguard@beehaw.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                It IS! But for some people it’s too much to allow that into their minds. So I try a different tactic: a little slower, so you can also get onboard with this.

                • Mopswasser@feddit.de
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  What’s known is that certain members of the PVV have dealings with an intransparent Russian agency. How you come from this to

                  Its a proven fact that Putin is in control of this party.

                  is beyond my comprehension.

                  • Safeguard@beehaw.org
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Ok, listen can we at least agree that PVV is not “clean” when it comes to Putin? And that they are very much anti “helping Ukraine” ?

      • Don_alForno@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        1 year ago

        Sure. Meloni just started by taking unemployment payments away from people. Not a big deal. And I’m sure those weren’t even the people who voted for her because “rEfUgEeS”. Yeah, not a big deal at all. Surely this was the end of it, no further kicking of the weakest in sight.

          • Don_alForno@feddit.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Oh, so rating agencies approved it. I almost have trouble believing it. Next you’re gonna tell me that foxes approve of a ban on fences around chicken coops.

            Maybe I’m missing nuances here, not being Italian and all, but the press reports I found say it’s all single unemployed people unter 60 that were cut down to 350€ a month total, limited to 12 months. Some 160.000 people.

            the government took away unemployment payment to people that would have been able to work but don’t.

            That’s always the rethoric, but it’s a) highly debatable in each individual case. See above. If your metric for “could work” is “single under 59” that’s flawed by design.

            b) By trying to hit the small minority of people that actually are just lazy you always hit people that are unemployed for entirely other reasons that may be well outside their control as collateral.

            c) Trying to force people to take almost any job just helps companies that pay poverty wages to keep doing that and prevents market forces from doing their thing (if one side can’t say no, the other can demand whatever).

            d) Even if none of this were true, there’s an existential minimum and letting people starve with less than that is just vile and a shame for any country calling itself civilized.

            e) It’s only the beginning, and by not being solidaric with your fellow humans you show them they can pick and target the next minority the next time they need publicity. First they came for the socialists… Of course they’re going step by step.

      • Sodis@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        1 year ago

        Well, they will undermine democracy where they can. Then they will ensure, that it gets harder and harder to vote against them and in the end your democracy ends up failed like in Hungary and Turkey. It’s the same playbook in every democratic country and people are ignoring it. But maybe you will think differently about that, when the new policies actually hit you and not only your neighbors.

    • Mopswasser@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      15
      ·
      1 year ago

      Its a proven fact that Putin is in control of this party.

      When you wilfully decide to live in make-believe land you shouldn’t engage in political discourse, anyway.