Data on search engine market share is available, but I wonder what that looks like for Lemmy users in particular, who I would assume lean more technical than the average user, so probably use DuckDuckGo and alternates more than Google.
I use a mix of DuckDuckGo and Kagi. I’ll also use ChatGPT, which can be good if you’re careful to verify the answers it gives you as a check against hallucinations. It’s useful for short, direct answers without ads or SEO bullshit.
This article on Ars (and if you’re not a subscriber, you absolutely should be, as they are the best tech journalists out there) inspired the question: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/06/google-admits-reddit-protests-make-it-harder-to-find-helpful-search-results
Fucking Reddit. Enshittification ruins everything.
Ecosia. I like trees.
I’d use Ecosia still if it weren’t for the fact that the filter is missing the “last year” setting. I’m a software engineer - 9 times out of 10, I want to find the bugs for a very specific version of a software, so having the year filter helps.
I now use Brave Search.
Fair point. I use ecosia to search everyday stuff on my phone and I’ve planted a lot of trees just by that. The results are fine.
At work for specific enquiries I use Google because I know how to get the details out of it at first. I don’t remember doing a Google search without additional tags. F.i. At work I use visual basic a lot and since it’s a shit language I have to Google everything including “vba excel”. There’s not a lot of logic to it, I just need to dive into the right post head on.
It points at a deeper problem though. There’s sooo much garbage on the internet that I have no idea of how ordinary people are supposed to use it anymore. I’m not disenfranching anyone, but for someone like my mom. How the fuck is she ever going to get an answer of any search? Google just plain sucks by now.
Do you know if ecosia is still using google under the hoods?
It uses Bing, similar to Duck Duck Go.
Apparently not, but the (usable) results are much the same. Ecosia was borrowing from yahoo and bing, but they changed that some years ago.
I have no idea of what or how they’re doing it now, but then I also only search explicit things. I never liked the idea of a search engine trying to understand what I was actually looking for, so I state myself clearly in that regard.
Yay Ecosia!!
I use Ecosia too. I find that Ecosia is good enough for ~80% of my searches and then I use Whoogle/Google for the more pressing/granular searches. I do the same w/ the free chatbots as well
I don’t understand why lots of you answer with chatGPT. It’s not a search engine! And you shouldn’t use it like a search engine.
If you pay there’s an option for chatgpt4 that can use Bing to search. There’s also various plugins that can let it interact with all sorts of additional data sources. Not that you should use it like a search engine exactly, but it can be useful for search if you configure it correctly and understand that it doesn’t “know” anything.
I can see a usecase for where you don’t know where to start or search with, and then verify with actual searches.
I recently used it to explain for a friend what is the difference between wheat and ale beer, and it gave a very good summary. With DDG I might not get a direct explanation and would need to read a few articles and then word them in a comprehensive way.
Maybe people mainly search for answers to simple daily life questions or something.
I guess, but it’s still not a search engine and I think it’s a bit problematic if that’s the usecase.
Except it IS a search engine and that’s basically all it’s good for. By its very nature all it can do is collate information. It’s the only thing AI is good at.
No it’s not. To search is a specific task, and generative AI can’t do that. It can fulfill some need that we are used to fulfill by searching the web, but this doesn’t mean it’s a search engine.
If you lost the key of your car and have access to an AI that can (sometimes) start your can without a key, you can be happy about it, but you still can’t say the AI searched the key for you. It can’t do it.
Edit: btw, we are talking about generative AI here. I’m not saying there isn’t and could not be a search engine that use AI to better its result.
You sound like you’re desperately trying to play a losing semantic game.
https://blogs.bing.com/search/march_2023/Confirmed-the-new-Bing-runs-on-OpenAI%E2%80%99s-GPT-4
Fuck off.
That’s quite the escalation. This is a reminder to be nice on this instance.
Why do you have to answer like that?
You are linking a search engine based on generative AI, which is a different things than using chatgpt per sè and, as I was saying to another user, I did not know existed.
If you don’t like my answer you can simply not comment on that. I don’t care if you agree with me or not, be polite
Don’t worry, you are in the right: a LLM is not a search engine. You might integrate it into a search engine, but that doesn’t make it a search engine.
I mean it’s so glaringly obvious it is not a search engine: every time you ask ChatGPT for information it will give you a disclaimer it’s database is from 2021 and prior…
Mostly duck duck go.
Same here. I know a lot of folks don’t like the results, but to be honest, I don’t find Google any better these days.
I use mostly either ddg or brave search. I miss the google of pre 2010, when the majority of its results were good.
I also use Yandex whenever I’m looking for pirate stuff, the only engine that doesn’t block those kinds of results.
Self-hosted Searxng. It’s shared to multiple people which kills a lot of the usefulness in Google or others trying to track my instance.
I tried this, but it kept saying ‘Engine failed’ or something on every other search. I never could figure out why. I might try again
Edit: Actually it was Searx I used. I’ll spin up Searxng and see if it’s improved
I had some issues with searx… Things are a bit better in my experience with searxng. Sometimes I still run into the error messages. But usually it’s my fault more than anything (server bogged down, too many requests/searches across all my users, or internet blips)… I just rerun the search a few seconds later and it’s usually good again.
Currently down for updates, but does a great job of avoiding SEO abuse/blog spam/etc. Takes you back to the earlier days of the internet when it felt like there were more forums/individual sites/etc. They’re still out there, just hidden under all the junk.
Thanks I look forward to trying this.
DuckDuckGo, but mostly because of the !bangs. I do 90% of my searches through StartPage (!s), and the rest directly on a few websites (Wikipedia, YouTube, Arch wiki…).
What are !bangs and how do I use them?
I switched to DDG almost entirely because of the !w bang — Google massively downranking/hiding Wikipedia links made it a lot less useful to me.
I run my own searx instance
As someone who’s only recently heard of SearXNG, why searx and not SearXNG?
SearXNG is a fork from searx, and improved a lot over the past 2 years (UI, translations, config options, …)
I think it’s no more used searx. There’s only searxng
I’ve been using DuckDuckGo as my main search engine for the past couple of years. I occasionally fall back to Google.
I was in this camp but find that the results I’ve gotten from DDG have been notably worse for the last year or so, to the point that I don’t expect useful results to come out of it any more at this point. Even if I searched “site name” because I couldn’t remember the URL was spelled “site-name.com” I’ve had no results coming from DDG, while Google had it as the first hit.
Have you experienced something similar? Are there techniques or workarounds I’m not aware of?
Sadly, yes, and instances like this have me falling back to Google. I’d happily try something else, but I’m a bit at a loss right now. What would you suggest as another search engine to try?
I honestly haven’t noticed this. I can almost always find what I’m looking for with a general ddg search. Interesting.
DuckDuckGo. Google if DDG isn’t cutting it.
Kagi. Very happy with it. Best $5 it recently invested. Gives me much better results than Google and all the others.
How do you come by with just 300 searches per month? I tested the trial period and used up the 100 searches in just a couple of days
Yes, that limited number of included searches is my only criticism I have with Kagi. They are aware of this, and are trying to offer customers more searches for the same price by improving their costs. I am glad they decided to do this by reducing their costs and have decided to not go the road of monetizing their users by selling ads and customer data.
However, I try to use Kagi only for serious search requests. For other very trivial searches, I use Startpage. For me, works OK. But I hope that one day Kagi offers enough searches, so I can just use it everywhere as my default search engine without having to thinking about it.
@eight_byte @monotrox How do you differentiate ‘serious’ search requests?
I’m considering Kagi but I’m a very trivial person.
With trivial search requests, I mean stuff like entering the name of a company as a search term, where you could have easily just entered the direct URL in our browser instead. There is almost no benefit for using Kagi on this. Almost every search engine will give you the result you are looking for as the first search result.
Kagi is perfect people doing a lot of research in the web. I am a software developer. When I try to find solutions for programming related topics, Kagi gives me much better results than Google since they don’t show me all the ads and don’t do weird ranking stuff. Also, I am able to ask Kagi to only show discussion from public forums or even let them summarize the results via AI. Doing product research is also a lot more helpful with Kagi.
@eight_byte That’s a great answer, thanks.
I think I’ll give it a whirl and see how I get on. Search seems to have generally gotten a *lot* worse lately and I’ve been guilty of using ChatGPT to augment some of my searches for work-related stuff. Maybe Kagi is a better answer.
It should. As far as I know, ChatGPT is not connected to the internet and therefore doesn’t have access to recent information.
@SemioticStandard Kagi. I used DDG for a long time, and Kagi is strictly better. Specifically, it’s very snappy and I trust the privacy guarantees even more since I’m a paying customer.
Kagi, hands down, is by far the best search engine I’ve ever used (next to Neeva, which got bought and shut down) without looking for Reddit results all the time.
Just simple searches like “Best gaming headphones” or “Realtek Driver Download” and comparing them with Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Brave, Startpage, etc. shows how the quality of the results are far superior.
And you can directly define, which sites you’d like to see higher / more results of or less - or even completely block or pin them to the top.
Also, it also shows you directly, before visiting a site, in colors if a site has a very high number of ads and/or trackers.
And they support for power users custom CSS to adjust everything, URL rewrites (e.g. change all Reddit URLs to old.reddit or to automatically open libreddit or archive.org versions), DDG and custom bangs, and much more.
Lastly, I created a so-called “Lens”, which allows me to search Lemmy / Kbin content only (also still have one for Reddit).
Meaning with one click, it shows me results from only sites or keywords I’ve defined - see image.Very satisfied with it, can only recommend.
(copied from another thread I replied to)
@Nankeru @SemioticStandard ohhhh can you share your Lemmy lens?
What plan are you on? Did you adjust your usage behavior to not waste search queries?
Didn’t adjust my usage at all. I used the plan with 1000 searches, but since I work as an IT administrator and literally make searches everyday throughout the day multiple times, I changed to the ultimate plan.
For normal (home / mobile) usage, 1000 searches are more than enough for 2 people.
+1 for Kagi, seems a great value to me, well worth the price to not have any ads, no tracking (leap of faith here) and great search results.
DDG for everyday usage. Sometimes I try searching the same things on google just to compare results. I’ve tried searxng instances on and off in the past but its rarely been reliable for me and self hosting isn’t really an option for me.
DuckDuckGo for me personally.
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