This is the biggest issue for me. No idea what we can do to get those companies to switch. I think it would benefit them in the future too. Autodesk had that cloud-vm version of fusion for a while, but I’d imagine that was costing them more due to Windows.
Sure, and my mechanic was working full time from his yard before buying a real garage with a lift. Just because some people go through the trouble of doing it doesn’t mean it’s the best tool for the job.
I’m not sure I understand how your analogy fits. There’s no heavy lifting involved. 🙂 Everything works and it’s ready-made – otherwise people wouldn’t use it at all. There are also lots of distros specifically tailored to audio and studio work. Naturally, there’s some things to learn but you also had to learn things when you got into audio and presumably you keep up with the industry so there isn’t a big difference.
Check out /r/linuxaudio, lots of resources in the sidebar and very helpful community.
Exactly my point, that’s just not true. There’s always some people who will use the worse tool instead of switching to the better tool (out of principle mostly), it doesn’t mean the tool is great or as good as the alternative, it just means the person doesn’t mind making their life harder than it needs to be.
Just like there were people insisting on doing graphical work on Windows back when Apple was miles ahead in that field or some places run Windows Server instead of using Linux and so on.
Heck, you’re talking about using specific distros for music stuff… If you’re going to dual boot or have a specific OS just for that, why not use the OS that has the better tools that are the industry standard?
There are tools that work on any OS. Audio processing has been developing at an even pace on all main OS (Windows, Mac, Linux). At this point it’s a matter of what flow works best for you. Windows itself is not an industry standard by any means. The OS matters very little in general beyond being able to give you real time processing and low latency. Windows could not even do low latency before 10.
Can you now install Mac OS on any hardware? They have the best tools for audio work, right? I can just choose that tool and install it on my… Oh wait! I can’t do that.
Do you not understand the argument you’re arguing?
Hackintosh, but Pro Tools is what’s used by the actual industry (so if you want to be serious about it you better learn to use it) and it’s on both Windows and Mac.
Hackintosh is arguably harder to deal with than Linux.
And why is pro tools still an industry standard? Is it because it’s the best software for the job, or is it because it was left unchallenged for 20 years?
That doesn’t apply the same for tools as it does cameras. For cameras the idea is at least you have the image captured. For a tool, if you’re trying to lift a car up, a hammer alone isn’t going to do you much good.
Why doesn’t it apply? Because you don’t want it to?
Not everyone who has an interest in something has access to resources. Money is often the limiting factor. So should those people not pursue their interest because the tools they don’t have are beyond their reach?
Lift a car with a hammer. Sometimes the only tool you have access to is the wrong tool. That doesn’t make it the best or correct or even reasonable tool to use.
I produced an album doing exactly this. the windows VST plugins with yabridge run like shit. not all of them worked. bitwig and reaper are fantastic though, and are great examples of what linux audio could be. unfortunately I am often using tools besides the daw and its built in features.
I should mention that yabridge folks are amazing. they are very responsive on IRC and they helped a lot. I think the main developer has pulled off something important here and I have a very high level of respect for what he’s doing. i have to put my music before my computer though.
Yeah, some vests are just crap and too locked into windows to be usable. Personally, I’m a computer guy that also does music (through I’ve been to busy from studying), so I won’t bother with something that is not Gnu/Linux
As far as gaming goes, no you really cannot. While a lot of progress has been done, notably thanks to Valve’s efforts with Proton, it’s still not ready for mainstream. Anti-cheat software incompatibility, peripherals drivers unavailability and overall jankiness are as many hurdles that make it interesting for tinkerers, but unrealistic for the general public.
It HIGHLY depends of what gamer you are. I switched to linux almost three years ago and all the games I wanted to play worked (nearly) flawlessly. But… the thing is I play mostly single player ones and usually a bit older. So for me it was huge upgrade. I got so mad over Windows so many times during last months of usung it at home, BSODs for no reason, forced updates disrespecting my settings, …
Yeah well, some of the most popular games in the world like Fortnite or Valorant cannot be played on Linux. Hell even Roblox which used to work was broken for 6 months this year due to a new anticheat (until it got fixed).
As for Xbox Gamepass ? Streaming only. Using a Thrustmaster wheel ? Fortunately someone is working on that, but not everyone is willing or able to build and load their own drivers into the kernel.
Setting aside potential “hurr hurr don’t play these games” comments ; there is no way around using windows if you want access to all PC games, not just some PC games.
Sure, but when I’m a cog in a bigger machine I need to prioritize my work being able to be continued by others or else I’ll be stuck making every single change on it that needs to be made in the future. The architecture we use to use the same PSD on AE projects and embedded webapps is essential to the system functioning as needed. Many, if not most places follow that same line of thinking and using a separate program that isn’t intended for that inner-platform use. It might be kool-aid but it’s a problem bigger than what OS I’d like to use.
I was a cog as well. I worked on others PSDs and they worked on mine. The work I did was of the same quality and any quirks with applications fell in my lap so it isn’t like my choice of OS or application was a hindrance to the next cog.
I mean the folks that came before us allowed Adobe to basically insert itself as the only option and just like you’re doing right now use excuses about “well that’ just how it is” in order to continue to keep them as the “industry standard”. Picasso didn’t use Photoshop but here we are.
When you have to deal with quirks (and Adobe just progressively adding more ‘quirks’ to overcome) to use the programs you need to make your living, your initial claim of ‘just use Linux!’ still sounds like an unhelpful answer. I mean I use Linux daily but I still need to work in an ecosystem.
Regarding Picasso, use whatever for personal art but people use the “industry standard” so they know any of their colleagues can use my deliverable for anything they should need to is a novel thing. I have plenty of personal experience why deviating causes problems where you least expect it to. It’s a shitty monopoly but I’m glad you have a means that allows you to work outside of it (keep doing it, it’s a good thing!)
Just switch to Linux, guys. You can do it!
Sadly besides freecad all the other CAD programs i use are not made for linux
This is the biggest issue for me. No idea what we can do to get those companies to switch. I think it would benefit them in the future too. Autodesk had that cloud-vm version of fusion for a while, but I’d imagine that was costing them more due to Windows.
This is my biggest frustration as well. I usually use Onshape because it’s browser based but it doesn’t support a 3D mouse sadly.
I’m guessing programs like that are too complex for WINE?
said no music producer ever
There are people who work on music full time on Linux.
they have a very narrow and specific set of software tools and hardware devices they can use. the ecosystem is shit, basically.
Sure, and my mechanic was working full time from his yard before buying a real garage with a lift. Just because some people go through the trouble of doing it doesn’t mean it’s the best tool for the job.
I’m not sure I understand how your analogy fits. There’s no heavy lifting involved. 🙂 Everything works and it’s ready-made – otherwise people wouldn’t use it at all. There are also lots of distros specifically tailored to audio and studio work. Naturally, there’s some things to learn but you also had to learn things when you got into audio and presumably you keep up with the industry so there isn’t a big difference.
Check out /r/linuxaudio, lots of resources in the sidebar and very helpful community.
otherwise people wouldn't use it at allExactly my point, that’s just not true. There’s always some people who will use the worse tool instead of switching to the better tool (out of principle mostly), it doesn’t mean the tool is great or as good as the alternative, it just means the person doesn’t mind making their life harder than it needs to be.
Just like there were people insisting on doing graphical work on Windows back when Apple was miles ahead in that field or some places run Windows Server instead of using Linux and so on.
Heck, you’re talking about using specific distros for music stuff… If you’re going to dual boot or have a specific OS just for that, why not use the OS that has the better tools that are the industry standard?
There are tools that work on any OS. Audio processing has been developing at an even pace on all main OS (Windows, Mac, Linux). At this point it’s a matter of what flow works best for you. Windows itself is not an industry standard by any means. The OS matters very little in general beyond being able to give you real time processing and low latency. Windows could not even do low latency before 10.
Pro tools (the real studio standard): Windows, Mac
Logic: Mac
Live: Windows, Mac
Nuendo: Windows, Mac
Sound Forge: Windows, Mac
Acid Pro: Windows
Reaper: Windows, Mac… Linux!
I can throw out names too. Bitwig, Cadence, Ardour, Zebra yabridge Pianoteq etc. Also entire distributions — MX, Elementary, Ubuntu, Mint, Solus etc.
Is it relevant? Maybe, depending on what you actually need.
Like I said, there’s no shortage of tools on any OS. If you want those specific ones that you listed and you want to do it on Windows, you can.
The only thing I object to is saying it can’t be done on another OS that you’re obviously not familiar with.
Can you now install Mac OS on any hardware? They have the best tools for audio work, right? I can just choose that tool and install it on my… Oh wait! I can’t do that.
Do you not understand the argument you’re arguing?
Hackintosh, but Pro Tools is what’s used by the actual industry (so if you want to be serious about it you better learn to use it) and it’s on both Windows and Mac.
Hackintosh is arguably harder to deal with than Linux.
And why is pro tools still an industry standard? Is it because it’s the best software for the job, or is it because it was left unchallenged for 20 years?
The best tool for the job is the tool you have access to.
That doesn’t apply the same for tools as it does cameras. For cameras the idea is at least you have the image captured. For a tool, if you’re trying to lift a car up, a hammer alone isn’t going to do you much good.
Why doesn’t it apply? Because you don’t want it to?
Not everyone who has an interest in something has access to resources. Money is often the limiting factor. So should those people not pursue their interest because the tools they don’t have are beyond their reach?
Lift a car with a hammer. Sometimes the only tool you have access to is the wrong tool. That doesn’t make it the best or correct or even reasonable tool to use.
So in your very odd analogy there is a naked man in a white void, a hammer and a car? You know what? I don’t care to continue this.
Well, if you have Linux then you have a PC then you can install Windows and you have access to better tools…
I’d rather bath my nan than go through another Windows install.
Man, you guys are precious and a half
[agree to terms] - you can’t understand the plot of this novel
[telemetry] - my data is not for sale
[product key failed] - screw me for upgrading the computer - time to buy another 2nd hand CD key
[online account] - 🖕 🖕
It’s not that bad. Bitwig studio plus ya ridge works pretty good. Also: no Tux no bux
I produced an album doing exactly this. the windows VST plugins with yabridge run like shit. not all of them worked. bitwig and reaper are fantastic though, and are great examples of what linux audio could be. unfortunately I am often using tools besides the daw and its built in features.
I should mention that yabridge folks are amazing. they are very responsive on IRC and they helped a lot. I think the main developer has pulled off something important here and I have a very high level of respect for what he’s doing. i have to put my music before my computer though.
Yeah, some vests are just crap and too locked into windows to be usable. Personally, I’m a computer guy that also does music (through I’ve been to busy from studying), so I won’t bother with something that is not Gnu/Linux
yeah, some of the most useful, popular and modern VSTs are unbelievable garbage software
You’re almost getting to the point of switching… So close!
As much as I love Linux that’s not happening anytime soon
once DRM and windows-only anti-cheat are no more, sure. but until then, the monopoly is working.
As long as people stay on windows for those reasons, it means it’s working. Chicken and egg.
You will never switch. Oh well
Nope. i like playing games and not being in a community which brings up Linux in every conversation
Your right, windows being brought up continually because they did something shitty every day is way better
GNU+Linux *
People having interests they’re passionate about is a no-go, eh? What do you and your friends talk about?
Not operating systems…
As far as gaming goes, no you really cannot. While a lot of progress has been done, notably thanks to Valve’s efforts with Proton, it’s still not ready for mainstream. Anti-cheat software incompatibility, peripherals drivers unavailability and overall jankiness are as many hurdles that make it interesting for tinkerers, but unrealistic for the general public.
It HIGHLY depends of what gamer you are. I switched to linux almost three years ago and all the games I wanted to play worked (nearly) flawlessly. But… the thing is I play mostly single player ones and usually a bit older. So for me it was huge upgrade. I got so mad over Windows so many times during last months of usung it at home, BSODs for no reason, forced updates disrespecting my settings, …
That’s crazy, bud!
goes back to playing my games, doing my art and enjoying my computing experience
Yeah well, some of the most popular games in the world like Fortnite or Valorant cannot be played on Linux. Hell even Roblox which used to work was broken for 6 months this year due to a new anticheat (until it got fixed).
As for Xbox Gamepass ? Streaming only. Using a Thrustmaster wheel ? Fortunately someone is working on that, but not everyone is willing or able to build and load their own drivers into the kernel.
Setting aside potential “hurr hurr don’t play these games” comments ; there is no way around using windows if you want access to all PC games, not just some PC games.
Wow!
Boss: “make sure you include a PSD and AI file in your package”
Me, a refined Linux user: “uhhhh”
Hmm wasn’t really an issue for me at Hi-Rez as a graphic designer, but yeah keep drinking the industry standard Kool-Aid!
Everybody hear that? It didn’t happen to this one guy so it must never happen ever anywhere!
If that’s your takeaway from what I said I guess I can’t fault you. I don’t think that’s what I implied, but what do I know about what I meant?
Sure, but when I’m a cog in a bigger machine I need to prioritize my work being able to be continued by others or else I’ll be stuck making every single change on it that needs to be made in the future. The architecture we use to use the same PSD on AE projects and embedded webapps is essential to the system functioning as needed. Many, if not most places follow that same line of thinking and using a separate program that isn’t intended for that inner-platform use. It might be kool-aid but it’s a problem bigger than what OS I’d like to use.
I was a cog as well. I worked on others PSDs and they worked on mine. The work I did was of the same quality and any quirks with applications fell in my lap so it isn’t like my choice of OS or application was a hindrance to the next cog.
I mean the folks that came before us allowed Adobe to basically insert itself as the only option and just like you’re doing right now use excuses about “well that’ just how it is” in order to continue to keep them as the “industry standard”. Picasso didn’t use Photoshop but here we are.
When you have to deal with quirks (and Adobe just progressively adding more ‘quirks’ to overcome) to use the programs you need to make your living, your initial claim of ‘just use Linux!’ still sounds like an unhelpful answer. I mean I use Linux daily but I still need to work in an ecosystem.
Regarding Picasso, use whatever for personal art but people use the “industry standard” so they know any of their colleagues can use my deliverable for anything they should need to is a novel thing. I have plenty of personal experience why deviating causes problems where you least expect it to. It’s a shitty monopoly but I’m glad you have a means that allows you to work outside of it (keep doing it, it’s a good thing!)
Not everyone can. People should consider their needs but Windows has programs that professionals rely on.
That’s crazy, bro!