On one hand, he’s being a dick; on the other, tipping culture persists because there’s a perception (and for some pretty waitresses a reality) that tipping pays far better than a living wage.
Because people are told to tip, and incessantly told to tip more.
5 tables an hour for three hours, $150 a table and 20% tip works out to 5x30x3 = $450. That’s a pretty good night, and it’s up and down, but cash is cash.
If someonees go to a restaurant and exploits free labor by refusing to tip because of their ‘principles’ then they are an asshole for abusing the employees who just did work for for free. Those who oppose tipping culture should not use tipping based services.
5 tables an hour for three hours, $150 a table and 20% tip works out to 5x30x3 = $450. That’s a pretty good night, and it’s up and down, but cash is cash.
While restaurants do exist that might have those kinds of numbers in large cities or well off areas, the vast majority of wait staff work at local and chain restaurants where tables are under $100 and they are working an 8 hour shift with plenty of downtime. Your example is the minority of servers that are vocal about keeping tips because they are attractive and have the best schedules.
That’s not going to help the immediate problem of their family starving, and considering the lack of legal protections for unions at that time, may actually make it worse, which most of those workers would probably be unwilling to risk.
Those who oppose tipping culture should not use tipping based services.
That’s a very US centric opinion. What about places like Canada, where waitstaff, just like every other profession, are entitled to the minimum wage? In Ontario, that’s $17.50 an hour. I would argue that in such places, tipping should be entirely optional and seen as an added reward for good service, and forgoing a tip shouldn’t be seen as “abusing the employees”.
Tipping culture refers to having jobs where a significant or vast majority of their income is tips. Like 50%-95% of their income is tips, so tipping is expected. Tipping culture in the US is the culture where the meme takes place.
It is not referring to tipping as an option, which is what tipping should be.
You and I seem to have a different opinion on what Tipping culture means. To me, it means the practice of giving gratuities to service workers, which has turned into an expectation at most establishments, with the most recent development being the use of dark design to trick people into tipping more. Card readers now default the tipping prompts to 18%, 20% and 25% for “okay”, “good”, and “great” service. The option to skip a tip, even in places where you’re just picking up the food, is hidden two menus deep.
It also means the use of social desirability tactics to get people to tip more.
To me, it means the culture around tipping as a whole, not just “having jobs where a significant or vast majority of their income is tips”.
My example is indeed the best case scenario, the one that is held up as a standard to excuse the labor abuses that occur as a result of tipping culture.
I’m not exploiting free labour. The owner does that - and even in the USA they’ve made it illegal to totally rely on tips (even for Black people, even in the South, for now). As a customer, I’m not really in a position to assess the compliance of the company with labour laws. Even if I tip, I can’t know whether the employer is skimming the top. In any case, it’s unlikely that the people responsible for making the food are getting a cut. I don’t eat out often and when I do, there’s a few places I’ve been going for a while that have had the same staff for over a decade. I have to hope that the reason for employee retention is that they’re treated well.
You do understand that the federal minimum wage for tipped positions is about $2 and they only have to bring it up to $7 if almost nobody tips, right?
The employer not paying more because the wages are primarily tips isn’t as bad as someone who refuses to tip but still expects the same labor. The employer expects someone else to pay for the labor, the non-tipping customer expects free labor.
Wait staff that stick around do so because the employer treats them well enough and their customer base doesn’t try to fight tipping culture by punishing the wait staff.
This is a common misunderstanding, but not tipping servers doesn’t mean they had to work for free. In the case of a tip shortfall, employers are required by federal law (in the US at least) to make up the difference between what the server made and minimum wage.
They do it based on averages, so when they get shorted by a customer then that work is free and the business only has to make up something if their two week average including tips is under minimum wage.
Either they make on average above minimum wage due to tips, or they make minimum wage due to employer pay. In no case will their weekly pay fall below the hourly minimum wage, so all of their time is compensated (not well enough, of course, but minimum wage being inadequate is another discussion entirely).
Not tipping punishes the wait staff by reducing their expected source of income that is tied to their labor with zero impact on tipping culture. Trying to justify that with ‘but mah minimum wage’ is just adding insult to injury.
People who refuse to tip on principle, but still go to places based on tipping culture are assholes. Trying to justify it is just doubling down.
If you want to punish the business owner, boycott the business. If you want tipping culture to end, work on legislation that allows it to exist.
Not tipping punishes the wait staff by reducing their expected source of income that is tied to their labor with zero impact on tipping culture. Trying to justify that with ‘but mah minimum wage’ just adds insult to injury.
Agreed.
People who refuse to tip on principle, but still go to places based on tipping culture are assholes. Trying to justify it is just doubling down.
Again, agreed.
If you want to punish the business owner, boycott the business. If you want tipping culture to end, work on legislation that allows it to exist.
Once again, I agree.
I’m not sure how this was supposed to be a rebuttal to the fact that servers are still compensated if you don’t tip them, and that, contrary to what you said, there is no “free labor” involved.
Was this comment just unrelated soapboxing, or did you assume that I was making a moral argument of some sort instead of a factual one?
On one hand, he’s being a dick; on the other, tipping culture persists because there’s a perception (and for some pretty waitresses a reality) that tipping pays far better than a living wage.
Because people are told to tip, and incessantly told to tip more.
5 tables an hour for three hours, $150 a table and 20% tip works out to 5x30x3 = $450. That’s a pretty good night, and it’s up and down, but cash is cash.
If someonees go to a restaurant and exploits free labor by refusing to tip because of their ‘principles’ then they are an asshole for abusing the employees who just did work for for free. Those who oppose tipping culture should not use tipping based services.
While restaurants do exist that might have those kinds of numbers in large cities or well off areas, the vast majority of wait staff work at local and chain restaurants where tables are under $100 and they are working an 8 hour shift with plenty of downtime. Your example is the minority of servers that are vocal about keeping tips because they are attractive and have the best schedules.
For free? so they’re not getting paid at all by their employer?
How about if workers are so angry that they will spill hot fucking soup on a patron, that they turn around and have a ‘chat’ with their boss?
And does America even provide enough ‘non-tipping services’ for that to be a viable option?
Their boss fires them, their families starve, nothing fundamentally changes.
This is unskilled labor in early 20th century New York City.
Sure. The only places you’re expected to tip are restaurants, and even then, only some ‘sit-down’ restaurants, not places with take-out.
Here’s a tip: unionize.
That’s not going to help the immediate problem of their family starving, and considering the lack of legal protections for unions at that time, may actually make it worse, which most of those workers would probably be unwilling to risk.
That’s a very US centric opinion. What about places like Canada, where waitstaff, just like every other profession, are entitled to the minimum wage? In Ontario, that’s $17.50 an hour. I would argue that in such places, tipping should be entirely optional and seen as an added reward for good service, and forgoing a tip shouldn’t be seen as “abusing the employees”.
Tipping culture refers to having jobs where a significant or vast majority of their income is tips. Like 50%-95% of their income is tips, so tipping is expected. Tipping culture in the US is the culture where the meme takes place.
It is not referring to tipping as an option, which is what tipping should be.
You and I seem to have a different opinion on what Tipping culture means. To me, it means the practice of giving gratuities to service workers, which has turned into an expectation at most establishments, with the most recent development being the use of dark design to trick people into tipping more. Card readers now default the tipping prompts to 18%, 20% and 25% for “okay”, “good”, and “great” service. The option to skip a tip, even in places where you’re just picking up the food, is hidden two menus deep. It also means the use of social desirability tactics to get people to tip more. To me, it means the culture around tipping as a whole, not just “having jobs where a significant or vast majority of their income is tips”.
Businesses are trying to expand tipping culture into jobs that were not previously reliant on tips, and those are the steps on the way.
My example is indeed the best case scenario, the one that is held up as a standard to excuse the labor abuses that occur as a result of tipping culture.
I’m not exploiting free labour. The owner does that - and even in the USA they’ve made it illegal to totally rely on tips (even for Black people, even in the South, for now). As a customer, I’m not really in a position to assess the compliance of the company with labour laws. Even if I tip, I can’t know whether the employer is skimming the top. In any case, it’s unlikely that the people responsible for making the food are getting a cut. I don’t eat out often and when I do, there’s a few places I’ve been going for a while that have had the same staff for over a decade. I have to hope that the reason for employee retention is that they’re treated well.
You do understand that the federal minimum wage for tipped positions is about $2 and they only have to bring it up to $7 if almost nobody tips, right?
The employer not paying more because the wages are primarily tips isn’t as bad as someone who refuses to tip but still expects the same labor. The employer expects someone else to pay for the labor, the non-tipping customer expects free labor.
Wait staff that stick around do so because the employer treats them well enough and their customer base doesn’t try to fight tipping culture by punishing the wait staff.
This is a common misunderstanding, but not tipping servers doesn’t mean they had to work for free. In the case of a tip shortfall, employers are required by federal law (in the US at least) to make up the difference between what the server made and minimum wage.
The employer just has to make sure you meet the local minimum wage over the course of the work week.
They do it based on averages, so when they get shorted by a customer then that work is free and the business only has to make up something if their two week average including tips is under minimum wage.
Either they make on average above minimum wage due to tips, or they make minimum wage due to employer pay. In no case will their weekly pay fall below the hourly minimum wage, so all of their time is compensated (not well enough, of course, but minimum wage being inadequate is another discussion entirely).
That is an awful argument.
Then it should be super duper easy for you to rebut.
Not tipping punishes the wait staff by reducing their expected source of income that is tied to their labor with zero impact on tipping culture. Trying to justify that with ‘but mah minimum wage’ is just adding insult to injury.
People who refuse to tip on principle, but still go to places based on tipping culture are assholes. Trying to justify it is just doubling down.
If you want to punish the business owner, boycott the business. If you want tipping culture to end, work on legislation that allows it to exist.
Agreed.
Again, agreed.
Once again, I agree.
I’m not sure how this was supposed to be a rebuttal to the fact that servers are still compensated if you don’t tip them, and that, contrary to what you said, there is no “free labor” involved.
Was this comment just unrelated soapboxing, or did you assume that I was making a moral argument of some sort instead of a factual one?