I’ve been doing a lot of research into Judaism. They seem to encourage asking tough questions and taking the answers seriously, which is good.
After reading a bit of the Torah, it got me thinking, why aren’t there any references to people who could not have been known to its followers at the time? No mention of East Asians or Native Americans. Did God just forget about them when he talked through Moses? Or he thought they weren’t important enough to mention?
Then it got me thinking some more. What about science? Wouldn’t it be effective to convince followers of legitimacy if a religion could accurately predict a scientific phenomenon before its followers have the means of discovering it? Say, “And God said, let there be bacteria! And then there was bacteria.” But there is nothing like that. Anywhere, as far as I can tell. Among any religion.
I’m not a theologian and I’m always interested in learning more, so any insights would be helpful.
Edit: A lot of responses seem to be saying “people wouldn’t have had a use for that knowledge at the time” seem to be parroting religious talking points without fully understanding their implications. Why would God only tell people what they would have a use for at the time? Why wouldn’t he give them information that could expand the possibilities of what they were capable of? Why does it matter if people had a word for something at the time? Couldn’t God just tell them new words for new things? If God was only telling them things that were relevant to them at the time, why didn’t He say so? Also, how come he doesn’t come back and tell us things that are relevant now, or at least mention that he isn’t coming back?
Religion is made up by people. Stop trying to support religious psychosis.
Yes, but it’s not what you’re thinking, and they could be known at the time, just not through scientific method, but we had to rediscover them.
In Abrahamic religions the eating of pork is prohibited because pork is an “unclean” animal, and indeed pork is one of the most dangerous meats to consume when not cooked properly. This could be divine knowledge, or people simply realizing that those who ate pork got more sick than those who didn’t.
Another example is about meditation and other mental health from oriental religions. The science to back up that is very recent but they have been doing it for thousands of years and have been claiming all of the benefits that we’re now discovering. But also this could have slowly evolved by observing yourself which is a lot of what meditation is about, so who could have thought that self inspection would allow you to understand yourself better?
So at the end of the day I don’t think there’s any example of what you’re looking for, because anything we know now they could have guessed back then and would not necessarily be divine knowledge. Accurate precognition would be an example of something we would have no explanation for, but that has never happened, most prophecies are abstract and open to interpretation.
In Abrahamic religions the eating of pork is prohibited because pork is an “unclean” animal, and indeed pork is one of the most dangerous meats to consume when not cooked properly.
Yet plenty of people ate pork and didn’t suffer any noticeable setback. This is a myth, or rather some kind of apologetics aimed at attempting a rational explanation at something which wasn’t decided by rationality.
Bacon
Not sure if I’m following you correctly but the two main problems, for lack of a better word, getting in the way of religion adopting science is that it requires 1) change the already “proven to work” model they already had for ages and 2) some critical thinking and openness to new ideas. As for point 2, it not be much required, but it’s population averages we’re talking about, so that makes it more difficult.
The reason is simply that the people who wrote those books were ignorant.
The Talmud says there are evil spirits that cause sickness and I’ll fortune, and for each person there are a thousand on their left and a thousand on their right. That sounds like bacteria to me. People back then didn’t have a use for numbers bigger than a thousand or a word for microbes.
Buddhists probably had figured out a lot of things about the workings of the human mind way before science did.
Well, the Bible says, the sun was created after Earth. So fuck that.
No. There’s far more examples of scientific advancement discovery being shot in the knees by theocratic groups than the alternative. Religion is a social tool used for shaping human interpretations of their role within human society, not a legitimate way to enhance our understanding of the world.
I would go as far as to say that having a strong association with a religious organization is an incredible detriment to any technological or scientific advancement.
God of the gaps: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps
The Quotes section is great.
People think that epilepsy is divine simply because they don’t have any idea what causes epilepsy. But I believe that someday we will understand what causes epilepsy, and at that moment, we will cease to believe that it’s divine. And so it is with everything in the universe.
Science is effort following the scientific method. Hypothesis, observation, analysis, reproducibility, etc. So no.
House of Wisdom in Baghdad brought about some of the foundational texts of Islamic and European medicine till the 19th century.
Mystical experiences concern themselves with the relationship of the finite to the infinite. Tolstoy wrote about this in Confession:
I had asked: what meaning has life beyond time, beyond space and beyond cause? And I was answering the question: ‘What is the meaning of my life within time, space and cause?’ The result was that after long and laboured thought I could only answer: none.
In my deliberations I was continually drawing comparisons between the finite and the finite, and the infinite and the infinite, and I could not have done otherwise. Thus I reached the only conclusion I could reach: force is force, matter is matter, will is will, the infinite is the infinite, nothing is nothing; and I could go no further than that.
It was somewhat similar to what happens in mathematics when, trying to resolve an equation, we get an identity. The method of deduction is correct, but the only answer obtained is that a equals a, and x equals x, or o equals o. Precisely the same thing was happening with my reasoning concerning the meaning of life. The only answers the sciences give to this question are identities.
And really, strictly rational knowledge, such as that of Descartes, begins with complete doubt in everything and throws aside any knowledge founded on faith, reconstructing everything along laws of reason and experiment. And it can provide no answer other than the one I reached: an indefinite one. It was only at first that I thought knowledge had given an affirmative answer, Schopenhauer’s answer that life has no meaning and is evil. But when I went into the matter I realized that this answer is not affirmative and that it was only my senses that had taken it to be so. Strictly expressed, as it is by the Brahmins, Solomon, and Schopenhauer, the answer is but a vague one, an identity: o equals o, life presented to me as nothing is nothing. Thus, philosophical knowledge denies nothing but simply replies that it cannot solve the question, and that as far as it is concerned any resolution remains indefinite.
Having understood this, I realized that it was impossible to search for an answer to my questions in rational knowledge; that the answer given by rational knowledge simply suggests that the answer can only be obtained by stating the question in another way, by introducing the question of the relation of the finite to the infinite. I realized that no matter how irrational and distorted the answers given by faith might be, they had the advantage of introducing to every answer a relationship between the finite and the infinite, without which there can be no solution. Whichever way I put the question: how am I to live? the answer is always: according to God’s law. Or to the question: is there anything real that will come of my life? the answer is: eternal torment or eternal bliss. Or, to the question: what meaning is there that is not destroyed by death? the answer is: unity with the infinite, God, heaven.
there has been jesuit scientists, like descarte, and other jesuit scientists that produce astrophysics/astronomy works, and some catholics. Just not the crazy fundamentalists, where everything can be explained by “god” or because of god is moral, never heard any good things come out of evangelicals or some protestants.
In the same way as Nostradamus predicted events? Probably. In the same way as what we define as science? No.
The problem with “prophecy” is that its impossible to check before it’s useless information. Unless the holy book used specific descriptions, you’d be left with Nostradamus type language that can’t be identified until after it comes “true”.
I knew a guy who thought some of the mythical beasts in revelation were a prediction of helicopters. So suppose he’s right, there would be no way to understand or predict helicopter technology using scripture, you have to wait until after helicopters are known to make the connection.
In December 1980 an Apple will arise no man can eat. Invest thy money in Master Jobbes’s machine and good fortune will tend thy days.
I suspect you might get examples of things that sort of resemble a later discovery that someone believing the religion in question might interpret as divine revelation of that thing. Some of the christians in my family like to take the “let there be light” thing and claim that it’s talking about the big bang, anecdotally.
I think I remember some religion out there having a concept that resembles microorganisms, before such organisms were discovered, I think Jainism but I’m not confident about that.
Some of the christians in my family like to take the “let there be light” thing and claim that it’s talking about the big bang, anecdotally.
But that’s probably not even right. In my understanding, the Big Bang wasn’t actually bright, because the first phase of the universe was a superhot but opaque quantum soup. Even the weak nuclear force took time to become distinct from the electromagnetic force. I don’t know if energy packets of a combined electroweak field count as photons exactly.
Regardless, the first light as we know it (in the sense that it could traverse the universe) wasn’t until a few hundred million years after the Big Bang, when the whole mess had cooled enough to become transparent. We now call that initial light the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation.
I know some Muslims claim the Qur’an gave scientific foreknowledge: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Qur’anic_scientific_foreknowledge
I got a free copy of the Qur’an last year and it’s packed with stuff like this, it’s kinda annoying because I just wanted to understand the actual text. It’s all the same stuff I’ve seen Christian creationists talk about, obviously false if you understand the basics but it’ll probably deceive lots of people who don’t.