Yup. Thing is, it’s known that ‘machinists’ coming out of trade school aren’t worth a damn for years. The same is true of enginneers, yet they turn them loose on CAD and they create designs that make everyone miserable.
This is one of the big problems with SpaceX/Blue Origin/Firefly. The designs are piss poor because the majority of their engineers are green.
Engineers shouldn’t have design authority until they’ve spent a few years manufacturing.
They are required to have a minimum of three years of design experience and have to pass a PE exam before they are allowed to verify their own designs.
Up until that point, all of their designs are required to be sealed by another PE.
My bad, not design authority as that’s a specific thing. They are allowed to design and the guy rubber-stamping often doesn’t catch much.
Ultimately, this is a religious issue. Engineers are heathens that should be burned at the stake. Occasionally, you meet a good one who’s been housetrained by the people that actually do the things.
Man, this false air of superiority you’re exuding is pretty weird. There are bad engineers, and bad skilled trades people, and bad managers, and bad business people. Every walk of life have people that are bad at their jobs, it’s by no means unique to any one class of worker.
I was amusing myself. Trolling engineers can be pretty fun and this is a target rich environment. I’ve seen a lot of bad engineering over the years and sometimes it’s just plain cathartic to make fun of them.
I can say the opposite. I have had craft, in the field, make design choices without engaging the engineer, and now the client is angry because shit isn’t working right, because someone made a command decision in a silo.
Drawings are never perfect. Most of the time, engineers are working off client provided drawings that aren’t very accurate, so the assumptions are bad when the shovel hits the ground.
That is neither the craft, nor the engineer’s fault.
I am an EE and I can’t magically know that the last guy to hang an antenna put it 10’ higher than he was supposed to and the client doesn’t want to pay for a site visit.
So now my tower climber is pissed because he has to make multiple climbs, take photos and then wait with his thumb up his butt, while I am trying to get the client to agree to a plan, and he is going to blame me.
Now I am a Construction Manager, and I get pissed at the engineer when he provides drawings that don’t give even half the info I need.
I’ll buy the material, no problem, but you need to give me a fucking BoM because I don’t know what your design criteria is and I am not going to guess.
I’m sure as hell not going to let my craft buy whatever coax connection is available, and fits, to connect a feedline.
They don’t know what actually goes into that.
Likewise, an engineer can’t tell if an existing conduit has enough room to snake a new cable because the cable schedule isn’t always accurate. But then my craft doesn’t know how to calculate conduit fill b because they don’t know the types/level of voltages in the existing lines.
I have also NEVER known an electrician who, when first laying eyes on a job, not complain about the terrible work performed by the previous electrician.
Working brownfields is always going to be a pain and everyone loves to bitch when the job ends up being harder than it should have been.
I will say this. I love being a construction manager 100 times more than being an engineer, but having that background is fucking invaluable because I can spot problems from further away and can usually resolve them quickly.
I appreciate the in-depth response. I was really just having some fun trolling engineers. You’ve been around the block so you understand the arrogance inherent in pretty much anything technical. It’s totally immature but it also makes me grin.
There’s a lot of machinists who think they are hot shit, so fitting username.
Yup. Thing is, it’s known that ‘machinists’ coming out of trade school aren’t worth a damn for years. The same is true of enginneers, yet they turn them loose on CAD and they create designs that make everyone miserable.
This is one of the big problems with SpaceX/Blue Origin/Firefly. The designs are piss poor because the majority of their engineers are green.
Engineers shouldn’t have design authority until they’ve spent a few years manufacturing.
They are required to have a minimum of three years of design experience and have to pass a PE exam before they are allowed to verify their own designs.
Up until that point, all of their designs are required to be sealed by another PE.
My bad, not design authority as that’s a specific thing. They are allowed to design and the guy rubber-stamping often doesn’t catch much.
Ultimately, this is a religious issue. Engineers are heathens that should be burned at the stake. Occasionally, you meet a good one who’s been housetrained by the people that actually do the things.
Man, this false air of superiority you’re exuding is pretty weird. There are bad engineers, and bad skilled trades people, and bad managers, and bad business people. Every walk of life have people that are bad at their jobs, it’s by no means unique to any one class of worker.
I was amusing myself. Trolling engineers can be pretty fun and this is a target rich environment. I’ve seen a lot of bad engineering over the years and sometimes it’s just plain cathartic to make fun of them.
I can say the opposite. I have had craft, in the field, make design choices without engaging the engineer, and now the client is angry because shit isn’t working right, because someone made a command decision in a silo.
Drawings are never perfect. Most of the time, engineers are working off client provided drawings that aren’t very accurate, so the assumptions are bad when the shovel hits the ground.
That is neither the craft, nor the engineer’s fault.
I am an EE and I can’t magically know that the last guy to hang an antenna put it 10’ higher than he was supposed to and the client doesn’t want to pay for a site visit.
So now my tower climber is pissed because he has to make multiple climbs, take photos and then wait with his thumb up his butt, while I am trying to get the client to agree to a plan, and he is going to blame me.
Now I am a Construction Manager, and I get pissed at the engineer when he provides drawings that don’t give even half the info I need.
I’ll buy the material, no problem, but you need to give me a fucking BoM because I don’t know what your design criteria is and I am not going to guess.
I’m sure as hell not going to let my craft buy whatever coax connection is available, and fits, to connect a feedline.
They don’t know what actually goes into that.
Likewise, an engineer can’t tell if an existing conduit has enough room to snake a new cable because the cable schedule isn’t always accurate. But then my craft doesn’t know how to calculate conduit fill b because they don’t know the types/level of voltages in the existing lines.
I have also NEVER known an electrician who, when first laying eyes on a job, not complain about the terrible work performed by the previous electrician.
Working brownfields is always going to be a pain and everyone loves to bitch when the job ends up being harder than it should have been.
I will say this. I love being a construction manager 100 times more than being an engineer, but having that background is fucking invaluable because I can spot problems from further away and can usually resolve them quickly.
I appreciate the in-depth response. I was really just having some fun trolling engineers. You’ve been around the block so you understand the arrogance inherent in pretty much anything technical. It’s totally immature but it also makes me grin.