I just think Miata to 250 is a pointless comparison. And I say that agreeing that Miatas are fun and that the 250 (and even the 150) are way, way too big. I have a buddy with a 150, and it’s filled with his tools and lumber every day. I’d argue the 250 is totally unnecessary for 90% of trades, and I specify trades because your average Joe certainly doesn’t need one period.
One way that your WRX and a Miata do favorably compare is bumper hight. If a collision the safety features built i to both cars would be fully engaged. In OPs example the truck would just roll up on top of the car bypassing pretty much everything.
So I do think even the stock F series trucks have to meet bumper height requirements. A whole separate issue are people raising their shitty truck without making adjustments to the bumpers. We see trucks and tractor trailers with Mansfield bars, yet Joe Schmo with his jacked up pavement princess does what he wants, and doesn’t even have a million dollar policy to at least remunerate the family of whomever he kills.
The 150 ist just as stupid a car as the 250. If your buddy really needed a car to carry tools and lumber around, he’d drive something like this:
But that doesn’t help curing fragile masculinity. One of these cars is big enough for a family of nine and their luggage. The other one isn’t even big enough for one man and his ego:
This “just buy a van” crap really needs to stop. There are plenty of reasons specifically to get a pickup truck. The F250 isn’t even sold to customers without a commercial account with Ford. Work vans and trucks are often made on exactly the same platform with a different shell put over it. The van will tend to have worse gas mileage due to the frontal cross section usually being higher (they ride a bit lower while having a same or higher ceiling height).
The problem is really the F150 and similar. It’s still gigantic, it’s sold to whomever can apply for an 8 year/25% interest rate loan, and is rarely used for anything like actual work. The diesel version was also discontinued, which pushes some people–the type who do actual work with it–to either buy the F250 or find a somewhat older F150 model.
It is outright impossible to buy a small truck in the US. I know guys who do real work with it and they aren’t happy having to buy a big machine. No, not the Maverick. That’s “well, there’s spam egg sausage and spam, that’s not got much spam in it” but for trucks.
they ride a bit lower while having a same or higher ceiling height
This is the line that gives away why they’re unquestionably better if you actually need to use it for work.
These jackasses with a tray 1.5m off the ground clearly aren’t regularly needing to get to their oversized toolbox at the back of the tray, because clambering in and out of that thing is an enormous pain in the ass.
This gets brought up so much because it clearly differentiates the people doing work from the people playing dress up.
I felt it was obvious I was talking about tradesmen and workers doing work, with all the talk about toolboxes and having to walk into the tray (and given that what most truck owners like to pretend to be). For use as a work vehicle, doing work tasks for tradesmen, a van is far more practical.
Are you implying that construction workers who move around a lot need a gigantic camper when they move between jobs? Because I realize that yanks do tend to do that, though I’d argue that this is more a reflection of yankee culture than applicability for actual work.
There are plenty of reasons a worker would choose a van. There are plenty of reason a worker would choose a truck.
Consider this setup:
Everything is made to be easily accessible. The rack can hold ladders and conduit that are as long as the vehicle (or even a bit longer). Other setups will have side access toolboxes.
Fifth wheels are not just for campers. They haul Bobcats. They haul livestock. They haul large sheds or even small houses. They haul several pallets of bricks.
For that matter, try getting pallet into a van as opposed to a truck bed. If it’s even possible to fit it in a van, you have to be a lot more careful while doing it.
That truck pictured would be better served with a van. Ladders and conduit on the roof, tools in the back. This is standard setup in the UK, UAE and Australia at least, I imagine for everywhere outside of North America.
Ah ok, I’ve only ever heard fifth wheeler be used to describe a camper. Hauling large trailers is something a pickup truck is better at than a van, but if that’s the type of work you do surely the obvious 5T flatbed is the better option, no? I appreciate that you’ll probably counter that the versatility for someone who only needs to do that occasionally and that is valid, but I hope you’ll appreciate that we’re now talking about a very small niche of of tradesmen in response to a comment I originally made making a generalization.
Doesn’t seem too easy to access anything but the first row of boxes. Where would you even store these orange boxes that are currently on the hand truck? On top of the rack? Seems like fun lifting them 5 feet if they contain any heavy tools. With a Van you have access from the sides built in, and because of the lower floor you could even add a ramp to push your hand truck into the car without having to lift anything at all.
Btw. it’s possible to fit two pallets into a small van. Heck, you can even fit a pallet into a cargo bike.
If you must transport a pallet of bricks you do it on an actual truck with a bloody crane on it. This is just kiddy shit. I can’t take you seriously if you drive a pallet of bricks around with that thing. Wtf. That’s just inefficient work.
Ha, he had a rape van prior to the F150. He thinks the access in the 150 is better, and who am I to judge, because I don’t live it day in and day out, so I’ll defer to him.
The 250 (rather 3/4T trucks in general) have limited consumer purpose, outside of towing large campers or car haulers. It’s also the smallest class that is recommended for gooseneck/5th wheel towing.
Commercially, there are more applications for it like hauling fluids, or as a snow plow, as well as the same towing arguments for consumer use. However, once you get into that stuff, you’ll find a 3/4T lacking, which is why you’ll see more 1T (350/3500) commercial trucks. They really are a bit of a silly ‘in between’ size.
For trades however, I would argue that any standard pickup truck is not the appropriate tool, vans are far more suitable for their use. Large “indoor” storage, tall enough to walk upright in, low to the ground so easy to enter/exit with tools, and they can be outfitted to store stuff on the walls.
I had my windows replaced a few years ago, and the work crew rolled up in a cube van, and inside it was set up basically as a woodworking shop, pretty much ready to go. They didn’t have to unload tools, set up tables, etc., just un-fasten some safety clamps, plug in an extension cord, and off they went. Maybe 15 minutes from parking to starting work, and that’s including taking some time to chit-chat with me.
I appreciate that insight, as I have very little of my own. My buddy is kind of a jack of all trades, framing one day, sheetrock one day, finishing the next. I think he likes the idea of unloading the bed easily, moving from one site to the next. I seem to recall his complaint about the van being associated with needing to kinda rejig it depending on the tasks he was performing, and if he had one of those days where he’s visiting multiple sites, doing multiple jobs, the truck was just easier. But that’s my faulty memory and zero experience.
All I have is having driven ambulances. I started back on the van conversions, older F350s. The boxes were squat only, no standing room. I left for about 10 years, roughly, and upon my return the ambulances were now F450 Super Duties. Absolutely massive, couldn’t stand it. I’m a good driver, I’ll toot my own horn, but I’d ride with a bunch of people who just could not navigate the big rigs into tight driveways, but there was this desire for size, and so we had what we had. I won’t lie, they were comfortable, all air ride equipped. But they were big, and adults could get lost in front of them. They did have all around cameras, but it’s crazy to rely on them.
Since my departure (two young kids and my own business is hard to find time to volunteer at the moment), they’ve gone the way of the Sprinter-type vans, which I can appreciate. I’m sure there were some sacrifices, but I also feel like 90% of the equipment we carried was hardly used. We’re also in suburban New Jersey, so it’s not like we’re responding to places and being the only ones on scene, so someone else will show up with the gear that I’m sure they did away with.
I ran into a guy driving a F650 as his daily commuter when he was going for coffee at Starbucks. He made sure to tell every person behind the counter how great of a vehicle it was.
He had to jockey it to get into the parking lot.
While the F250 is less common than the F150 we’re still faced with a plague of oversized, dangerous, and ecological driving disasters on our roads.
They don’t even have my 2003 wrx to compare against. But it’s not much bigger. The WRX has gotten huge along with most of Subarus over the same time period since the Miata came out.
I had a buddy who had a gen 1 or 2 MR2 (been so long), and that car was a lot of fun, but holy snap oversteer, very unforgiving. But hey that made it more fun, right? I preferred the predictable oversteer of my nismo 350z. I miss that car. But neither the MR2 nor the 350 are great when I have two little people to put in the back, and all of their stuff.
I had a 2013 WRX after the Nismo, and it was definitely smaller than the 2024, but my 2024 WRX is smaller than my 2018 Legacy was, that was a boat.
And I had a '99 Legacy before, and that car was fantastic. It had ground clearance, I took it offroad to places it absolutely didnt belong. Lots of fun. And very well equipped for it’s time. RIP.
Nice! I want a turbo gen 2 MR2 so bad. I have the mr-s convertible. It’s a ton of fun, but is so underpowered. I think of it more like a gocart. You need momentum to kick the back end out, otherwise it just understeers so much. It’s better once I installed a LSD after a bearing grenaded in the transmission and I had to rebuild it.
I still have my 03 WRX. I swapped the steering box for a newer sti one for a tighter turn, dropped in a '19 sti short block which increased compression, lifted it a couple inches and put in big all terrain wheels. It can go so many places it really shouldn’t. I love it.
Yeah, he unfortunately went too hard on the mods and it blew up one day, I was behind him when it happened, and it never got back after that. Bigger turbo, downpipe, all that jazz. This is going back probably 15 or more years at this point, but he had a trans-am ts6 after that that was an equally fun ride, absolute factory freak, but so different.
I will say, the '24 WRX seems more well equipped for steep driveways than my '13 did, that car was low. It’s a rally car and so it should look and feel like an old group B car. That sounds like a great “conversion”, because the '03 body is just such a piece of history at this point, that car is why WRX is what it is, and if you can keep it running, maybe make it a little more fun, that’s great.
Completely agree with this. It would be interesting (and more valuable) to see the difference between mean or average car size over the years. Especially since (in Europe at least), there has been a rapid increase in SUVs, and, I am guessing, a decline in compact cars.
I get the argument, but it’s pretty obviously disingenuous.
The 250 is much less common than the 150. There are admittedly plenty of them. The 250 is bigger in every dimension.
And even my WRX towers over a Miata.
I just think Miata to 250 is a pointless comparison. And I say that agreeing that Miatas are fun and that the 250 (and even the 150) are way, way too big. I have a buddy with a 150, and it’s filled with his tools and lumber every day. I’d argue the 250 is totally unnecessary for 90% of trades, and I specify trades because your average Joe certainly doesn’t need one period.
One way that your WRX and a Miata do favorably compare is bumper hight. If a collision the safety features built i to both cars would be fully engaged. In OPs example the truck would just roll up on top of the car bypassing pretty much everything.
So I do think even the stock F series trucks have to meet bumper height requirements. A whole separate issue are people raising their shitty truck without making adjustments to the bumpers. We see trucks and tractor trailers with Mansfield bars, yet Joe Schmo with his jacked up pavement princess does what he wants, and doesn’t even have a million dollar policy to at least remunerate the family of whomever he kills.
The 150 ist just as stupid a car as the 250. If your buddy really needed a car to carry tools and lumber around, he’d drive something like this:
But that doesn’t help curing fragile masculinity. One of these cars is big enough for a family of nine and their luggage. The other one isn’t even big enough for one man and his ego:
I have a grand caravan I use for hauling shit around.
I can lay 8 sheets of 1/2" 4 foot by 8 foot drywall in that van.
How many can you lay flat in a 250? ZERO!
This “just buy a van” crap really needs to stop. There are plenty of reasons specifically to get a pickup truck. The F250 isn’t even sold to customers without a commercial account with Ford. Work vans and trucks are often made on exactly the same platform with a different shell put over it. The van will tend to have worse gas mileage due to the frontal cross section usually being higher (they ride a bit lower while having a same or higher ceiling height).
The problem is really the F150 and similar. It’s still gigantic, it’s sold to whomever can apply for an 8 year/25% interest rate loan, and is rarely used for anything like actual work. The diesel version was also discontinued, which pushes some people–the type who do actual work with it–to either buy the F250 or find a somewhat older F150 model.
It is outright impossible to buy a small truck in the US. I know guys who do real work with it and they aren’t happy having to buy a big machine. No, not the Maverick. That’s “well, there’s spam egg sausage and spam, that’s not got much spam in it” but for trucks.
This is the line that gives away why they’re unquestionably better if you actually need to use it for work.
These jackasses with a tray 1.5m off the ground clearly aren’t regularly needing to get to their oversized toolbox at the back of the tray, because clambering in and out of that thing is an enormous pain in the ass.
This gets brought up so much because it clearly differentiates the people doing work from the people playing dress up.
deleted by creator
It does no such thing.
Are you aware of what a fifth wheel is? If you don’t, you really shouldn’t be commenting about what’s better for work or not.
I felt it was obvious I was talking about tradesmen and workers doing work, with all the talk about toolboxes and having to walk into the tray (and given that what most truck owners like to pretend to be). For use as a work vehicle, doing work tasks for tradesmen, a van is far more practical.
Are you implying that construction workers who move around a lot need a gigantic camper when they move between jobs? Because I realize that yanks do tend to do that, though I’d argue that this is more a reflection of yankee culture than applicability for actual work.
There are plenty of reasons a worker would choose a van. There are plenty of reason a worker would choose a truck.
Consider this setup:
Everything is made to be easily accessible. The rack can hold ladders and conduit that are as long as the vehicle (or even a bit longer). Other setups will have side access toolboxes.
Fifth wheels are not just for campers. They haul Bobcats. They haul livestock. They haul large sheds or even small houses. They haul several pallets of bricks.
For that matter, try getting pallet into a van as opposed to a truck bed. If it’s even possible to fit it in a van, you have to be a lot more careful while doing it.
That truck pictured would be better served with a van. Ladders and conduit on the roof, tools in the back. This is standard setup in the UK, UAE and Australia at least, I imagine for everywhere outside of North America.
Ah ok, I’ve only ever heard fifth wheeler be used to describe a camper. Hauling large trailers is something a pickup truck is better at than a van, but if that’s the type of work you do surely the obvious 5T flatbed is the better option, no? I appreciate that you’ll probably counter that the versatility for someone who only needs to do that occasionally and that is valid, but I hope you’ll appreciate that we’re now talking about a very small niche of of tradesmen in response to a comment I originally made making a generalization.
The guy who made it explicitly rejected a van for his purposes. Maybe we should let him decide how to do his job?
How many niches does it take when, all together, they’re no longer niche cases?
Doesn’t seem too easy to access anything but the first row of boxes. Where would you even store these orange boxes that are currently on the hand truck? On top of the rack? Seems like fun lifting them 5 feet if they contain any heavy tools. With a Van you have access from the sides built in, and because of the lower floor you could even add a ramp to push your hand truck into the car without having to lift anything at all.
Btw. it’s possible to fit two pallets into a small van. Heck, you can even fit a pallet into a cargo bike.
If you must transport a pallet of bricks you do it on an actual truck with a bloody crane on it. This is just kiddy shit. I can’t take you seriously if you drive a pallet of bricks around with that thing. Wtf. That’s just inefficient work.
Bricks are not the only things that go on pallets. This was an electrician’s truck, after all.
Ha, he had a rape van prior to the F150. He thinks the access in the 150 is better, and who am I to judge, because I don’t live it day in and day out, so I’ll defer to him.
The 250 (rather 3/4T trucks in general) have limited consumer purpose, outside of towing large campers or car haulers. It’s also the smallest class that is recommended for gooseneck/5th wheel towing.
Commercially, there are more applications for it like hauling fluids, or as a snow plow, as well as the same towing arguments for consumer use. However, once you get into that stuff, you’ll find a 3/4T lacking, which is why you’ll see more 1T (350/3500) commercial trucks. They really are a bit of a silly ‘in between’ size.
For trades however, I would argue that any standard pickup truck is not the appropriate tool, vans are far more suitable for their use. Large “indoor” storage, tall enough to walk upright in, low to the ground so easy to enter/exit with tools, and they can be outfitted to store stuff on the walls.
I had my windows replaced a few years ago, and the work crew rolled up in a cube van, and inside it was set up basically as a woodworking shop, pretty much ready to go. They didn’t have to unload tools, set up tables, etc., just un-fasten some safety clamps, plug in an extension cord, and off they went. Maybe 15 minutes from parking to starting work, and that’s including taking some time to chit-chat with me.
I appreciate that insight, as I have very little of my own. My buddy is kind of a jack of all trades, framing one day, sheetrock one day, finishing the next. I think he likes the idea of unloading the bed easily, moving from one site to the next. I seem to recall his complaint about the van being associated with needing to kinda rejig it depending on the tasks he was performing, and if he had one of those days where he’s visiting multiple sites, doing multiple jobs, the truck was just easier. But that’s my faulty memory and zero experience.
All I have is having driven ambulances. I started back on the van conversions, older F350s. The boxes were squat only, no standing room. I left for about 10 years, roughly, and upon my return the ambulances were now F450 Super Duties. Absolutely massive, couldn’t stand it. I’m a good driver, I’ll toot my own horn, but I’d ride with a bunch of people who just could not navigate the big rigs into tight driveways, but there was this desire for size, and so we had what we had. I won’t lie, they were comfortable, all air ride equipped. But they were big, and adults could get lost in front of them. They did have all around cameras, but it’s crazy to rely on them.
Since my departure (two young kids and my own business is hard to find time to volunteer at the moment), they’ve gone the way of the Sprinter-type vans, which I can appreciate. I’m sure there were some sacrifices, but I also feel like 90% of the equipment we carried was hardly used. We’re also in suburban New Jersey, so it’s not like we’re responding to places and being the only ones on scene, so someone else will show up with the gear that I’m sure they did away with.
In sum, big truck (generally) unnecessary.
I ran into a guy driving a F650 as his daily commuter when he was going for coffee at Starbucks. He made sure to tell every person behind the counter how great of a vehicle it was.
He had to jockey it to get into the parking lot.
While the F250 is less common than the F150 we’re still faced with a plague of oversized, dangerous, and ecological driving disasters on our roads.
They don’t even have my 2003 wrx to compare against. But it’s not much bigger. The WRX has gotten huge along with most of Subarus over the same time period since the Miata came out.
My Toyota is damn near identical though.https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/mazda-mx-5-1989-roadster-vs-toyota-mr2-1999-roadster/
I had a buddy who had a gen 1 or 2 MR2 (been so long), and that car was a lot of fun, but holy snap oversteer, very unforgiving. But hey that made it more fun, right? I preferred the predictable oversteer of my nismo 350z. I miss that car. But neither the MR2 nor the 350 are great when I have two little people to put in the back, and all of their stuff.
I had a 2013 WRX after the Nismo, and it was definitely smaller than the 2024, but my 2024 WRX is smaller than my 2018 Legacy was, that was a boat.
And I had a '99 Legacy before, and that car was fantastic. It had ground clearance, I took it offroad to places it absolutely didnt belong. Lots of fun. And very well equipped for it’s time. RIP.
Nice! I want a turbo gen 2 MR2 so bad. I have the mr-s convertible. It’s a ton of fun, but is so underpowered. I think of it more like a gocart. You need momentum to kick the back end out, otherwise it just understeers so much. It’s better once I installed a LSD after a bearing grenaded in the transmission and I had to rebuild it.
I still have my 03 WRX. I swapped the steering box for a newer sti one for a tighter turn, dropped in a '19 sti short block which increased compression, lifted it a couple inches and put in big all terrain wheels. It can go so many places it really shouldn’t. I love it.
Yeah, he unfortunately went too hard on the mods and it blew up one day, I was behind him when it happened, and it never got back after that. Bigger turbo, downpipe, all that jazz. This is going back probably 15 or more years at this point, but he had a trans-am ts6 after that that was an equally fun ride, absolute factory freak, but so different.
I will say, the '24 WRX seems more well equipped for steep driveways than my '13 did, that car was low. It’s a rally car and so it should look and feel like an old group B car. That sounds like a great “conversion”, because the '03 body is just such a piece of history at this point, that car is why WRX is what it is, and if you can keep it running, maybe make it a little more fun, that’s great.
Completely agree with this. It would be interesting (and more valuable) to see the difference between mean or average car size over the years. Especially since (in Europe at least), there has been a rapid increase in SUVs, and, I am guessing, a decline in compact cars.
I thought my Veloster was pretty small… but it looks fat next to the Miata