• bane_killgrind@slrpnk.netEnglish
    3·
    3 days ago

    Violence is always the answer. The questions are simple:

    How do we gain a political advantage? How do we gain an economic advantage? How do we gain a social advantage?

    Anyone that says violence is not the answer doesn’t understand the tools that marginalize them and the people they care about.

  • teagrrl@lemmy.ml
    133·
    6 days ago

    the lemmyworlds and their orbiters are gonna be upset about this one

    • prototype_g2@lemmy.ml
      112·
      7 days ago

      hmm… And why would you say supporting Russia and Palestine count has “understanding geopolitics”? I say this as someone who does not know too much about it.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        82·
        6 days ago

        Both work against US Imperial Hegemony. Palestinian liberation is fully supported as it’s a national liberation movement for people subjected to settler-colonial genocide, critical support for Russia is due to it currently working against US dominance, which is the primary obstacle for Humanity to progress economically into a more equitable global system.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        63·
        6 days ago

        If you’re describing Marxist-Leninists as being interchangeable with “tankies,” and MLs are by far the most common form of Marxist and Socialist world-wide, what’s the point in denoting the top-left quadrant as “Socialist/Anarchist?” Moreover, Anarchists are not a monolith, many don’t support continuing the war.

        I think the original is more generous, anti-war-ism is genuinely a relatively positive way of putting it even if critical support for Russia is deemed to be “fully knowledgeable.” The original fully acknowledges the principles of never striking first millitarily as a viewpoint with understandable moral basis, while also suggesting that that isn’t the complete picture.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
            53·
            6 days ago

            I don’t think you’re accurately describing the reasons Russia invaded Ukraine, the material reality points more towards Russia wanting to thoroughly demillitarize Ukraine by any means necessary and certify Ukrainian neutrality with NATO, rather than joining it.

            As for standing for Socialism and the liberation of the working class, the majority of Marxists believe that the current largest obstacle in that path globally is the US Empire, and US Hegemony. Russia poses less of a threat to Socialism worldwide than the US by virtue of not having nearly the power of the US. I have no doubt that the Russian Federation would be just as exploitative of the Global South if they were in the same position as the US Empire, but they aren’t, and instead their path to further profits relies on dethroning the US. This dethroning of the US is also necessary for Socialists, hence critical support insofar as it appears to be working against the US Empire.

            Let’s consider the opposite viewpoint, though. What happens if Ukraine, against all odds, succeeds in beating back Russia, maintains millitarization, and joins NATO? Russia further weakens, and becomes folded into subjugation under the US Empire. This likely results in opening up of some of Russia’s assets to foreign plundering, strengthens NATO (the US Empire’s millitary wing, essentially), and thus also weakens the position of the Global South.

            What most Marxists support is a quick end to the war, via peace deals. The US continuing the war in order to shackle Ukraine with massive IMF loans and secure ownership of key resources and minerals stands in the way of that, and wishes to prolong the war so they can carve out as much value out of Ukraine as they can. Increasingly, Ukrainians themselves want the war to end, rather than sacrificing themselves for US profits, even if it means Russian victory. There is no actual path to victory for Ukraine without NATO full-on joining in, causing a catastrophic level of death and destruction.

            What should a Socialist side with, in this situation? Where is the path to the best possible outcome, in your opinion?

  • Soolonkivi@lemm.ee
    56·
    6 days ago

    There will be violence in Ukraine regardless of whether weapons are sent there or not. The second option will make it so there’s noone to police the russians. Pretty much like palestinians can’t do much about israelis slaughtering them.

    • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
      44·
      6 days ago

      NATO had buit the largest of any European armies there and they were slaughtering the ethnic Russians, nobody was crying about policing them were they?

      • Soolonkivi@lemm.ee
        21·
        4 days ago

        So what you meant to say is: "I think

        NATO had buit the largest of any European armies there and they were slaughtering the ethnic Russians, nobody was crying about policing them were they?

        But I have no sources other than my thoughts to support this view."

        • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
          21·
          4 days ago

          I’m saying this is not some secret and verifiable fact. They had 600K and a few100k reserves.
          Far more than England, France or whoever. Also the most tanks and everything else except navy.
          Even with all the nATO help and training it didn’t go too well so they used the Minsk accords to arm even further.
          Merkel admitted this, it is clear they never intended to honor it.
          Reports from the OCSE show how they continuously broke the ceasefire.
          Just before Russia intervened they reported 100’s of bombings.
          98% on the ukro site.
          Maybe learn to look something up, or don’t and keep making snooty remarks bcs you don’t want to see the truth.

          • Soolonkivi@lemm.ee
            2·
            5 days ago

            No shit Sherlock, then include a source for this info so I can educate myself. Cuz a quick search turned up nothing like this.

              • BoulevardBlvd@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                21·
                3 days ago

                No. Propagandist is.

                No one knowing what you’re saying is a problem, but that’s a you problem. Everyone who reads what you wrote is confused because what you’re saying sounds like the ravings of a lunatic. No one knows what you’re talking about. We’ve never heard of these events you’re alluding to. So either show proof of them or we’re going to write you off as another propaganda shill

                But you knew all of this because it’s 2025 and no one on lemmy doesn’t understand how the Internet works. Which means you’re lying for a purpose. You’re a propagandist.

                • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  3 days ago

                  LOL 8 YEARS is hard to ignore. Couldn’t look that up with all your interwebs knowledge?
                  I don’t know who your WE is that doesn’t see this but that’s probably part of your crappy propaganda outfit.
                  Anyone with a brain knows what happened and is going on.
                  The reality is catching up with you and you’re embarrassing, nothing more.
                  Propaganda only goes so far, especially if you’re on the wrong side.
                  So enjoy what is coming, you deserve it fully.

      • Reddfugee42@lemmy.worldEnglish
        12·
        5 days ago

        Ugh, the crying about NATO armies. “They were about to get too strong to attack, so Russia had to attack before they got completely too strong to attack.” Yeah, okay vlad

  • tory@lemmy.worldEnglish
    55·
    6 days ago

    Israel has controlled the USG for decades now. We support Israel because they have been intricately and impressively spying on us since at least the 1980s and bought and paid for most of our politicians. It’s just that simple, they own our politicians, and therefore: when they do heinous evil, our politicians look away.

    Ukraine was invaded by our largest rival on the world stage as a power grab, and NATO decided to help.

    The two situations are not comparable in the slightest.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      92·
      6 days ago

      Other way around, the US supports Israel because it secures the US Empire’s interests in the region. Israel does not have nearly the power necessary to control the US, this line of thinking fails to analyze the real standings of the two countries. Presumably unintentionally on your part, the “Israel controls the US” narrative is actually pushed heavily by anti-semites, it perpetuates the notion that Jewish people control the world in a manner that recognizes the genocide of Palestinians. This is why correct analysis is important, as false conclusions aid the fascists. Anti-Zionism is correct, as is Palestinian liberation, but the US is not a victim here but is intentionally perpetuating it.

      As for NATO and Ukraine, NATO countries are “helping out” not out of any moral reason, but to make hefty profits off of IMF loans and resource/mineral contracts. Additionally, Russia is not the US Empire’s largest rival on the world stage, China is. It’s true that Russia goes against the US, but it hasn’t been a world power since the dissolution of the USSR, when the reintroduction of Capitalism obliterated Russia’s economy.

  • yistdaj@pawb.social
    214·
    7 days ago

    I feel like you’ve built two straw-men and conflated them together. I haven’t seen anybody arguing either case on the left side of the meme in response to the images depicted (or similar) on the right side of the meme. People wanting to send weapons to Ukraine generally tend to also say it doesn’t have a Nazi problem (and may compare Russia with Nazis), and people wanting pacifism in Palestine also don’t like weapons and support sent to Israel.

      • yistdaj@pawb.social
        2·
        6 days ago

        This comment section wasn’t so full or censored when I commented that, and I know the ones I saw before they were censored weren’t saying that.

          • yistdaj@pawb.social
            1·
            6 days ago

            It’s good, I would have thought the same if I were to stumble on it now. Somebody must have provided an extremely quick downvote, because I hadn’t downvoted you

    • Pherenike@lemmy.ml
      245·
      7 days ago

      Why do you always think it’s Russian trolls? Is there really nothing criticizable anymore about this war romance y’all got going for Ukraine? Any critical minds just have to be ‘Putin’s puppies’? I’m so fucking tired of this simplistic ass Marvel heroes viewpoint.

      • PotatoLibre@feddit.it
        815·
        7 days ago

        Hard to call “critical mind” anyone who compare those two conflicts in such a gross way.

        • Pherenike@lemmy.ml
          153·
          7 days ago

          Yes, you’re right. We should definitely send more military aid to Palestine.

          • PotatoLibre@feddit.it
            411·
            7 days ago

            Don’t you feel a bit ashame with that childish argument?

            Ever heard about nuances? World isn’t just white and black. Grow up.

            • Samsuma@lemmy.ml
              122·
              7 days ago

              Enlighten us with these “nuances” you speak of. Clearly you know better than everyone else in this thread, so why not share your wisdom to the class?

              • PotatoLibre@feddit.it
                310·
                7 days ago

                I feel it will be kinda wasted time, my comments always got cowardly banned in this circlejerk called lemmy.ml, people has very shaky legs.

                I’m pretty new to Lemmy, but I start ti undertstand how these places works, and jezz, lemmy.ml seems a spin off of RT.

                • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
                  81·
                  7 days ago

                  Don’t you feel a bit ashame with that childish argument?

                  Ever heard about nuances? World isn’t just white and black. Grow up.

                • Poliverso@feddit.itEnglish
                  1·
                  6 days ago

                  in this circlejerk called lemmy.ml, people has very shaky legs

                  Lemmy is not Reddit. Instances are administered by administrators who dictate the general rules and each community is managed by moderators who dictate specific rules. In this case, you are posting provocative comments, forcing the rules of the community in which this discussion is developing and going against the common feeling of that community (= more briefly, you are trolling). If you do not agree with the tone that is developing in a certain community, you can mute it. Not only is no one forcing you to comment, but it is not advisable to do so, because here people do not want to argue, but to discuss. In particular, you are doing something very incorrect: you are criticizing the methods and environment of a community that resides in an instance other than the one you are registered in. This is not acceptable! As far as I am concerned, no one should be allowed to give lessons to those who manage instances other than the one you are registered in. This way of doing things leads to a worsening of the climate of the discussion, to tensions between administrators and above all to the fact that I, as administrator of Poliverso, have to receive mountains of reports.

                  The Fediverso is beautiful because everyone can go to the places where they can feel better, but it should not be used to ruin the discussion environment for those who do not think like you.

            • Pherenike@lemmy.ml
              91·
              7 days ago

              It’s precisely what I’m trying to get you to understand my dear, the world isn’t black and white. But as soon as I criticize anything about Ukraine and the EU, I get called a Russian troll.

              So what am I missing about Palestine? Why shouldn’t we send them some weapons and tanks?

              • PotatoLibre@feddit.it
                56·
                7 days ago

                Dude, you talked about weapons, not me. I just pointed out those conflicts are quite different and that comparison is biased and wrong.

                It’s a very poor argument.

                • Pherenike@lemmy.ml
                  82·
                  7 days ago

                  Dude

                  I am a woman

                  you talked about weapons, not me

                  It’s what the meme above is about

                  I just pointed out those conflicts are quite different and that comparison is biased and wrong.

                  You didn’t say why, what is your reasoning behind that (because there is none) so you might as well have said pink microwave

                  It’s a very poor argument

                  You, on the other hand, have no argument and no knowledge to defend it. Or you don’t understand what I wrote and have simply lapped up EU propaganda, so you don’t know how to debate.

                  Don’t you feel a bit ashame

                  Don’t attack if you plan on running afterwards

      • FelixCress@lemmy.world
        617·
        7 days ago

        Why do you always think it’s Russian trolls

        Can also be Putin’s useful idiots. Take your pick.

    • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
      202·
      7 days ago

      Well you see, as you increasingly slip into McCarthyist paranoia, your definition of “Russian troll” is going to grow ever more expansive as it approaches “everyone who disagrees with me”. As a result, it’s going to seem like there’s more of them to you

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        41·
        6 days ago

        To be clear, Lemmy is developed and maintained by Communists, there are going to be many Communists on Lemmy in general. Going around and calling Communists McCarthyian terms like “commie” is just stoking rage, I don’t see what that fixes.

  • Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world
    1912·
    7 days ago

    Love how in the first image you show the best part of the Palestinian people (which I do think is very much in the majority), but then in the second image you show the worst part of the Ukrainian people (which are very much in the minority).

      • dnick@sh.itjust.works
        2·
        6 days ago

        That’s hardly a ‘lib move’, more like an ingrained human reaction to justify practically every action ever.

      • Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world
        33·
        6 days ago

        Are you saying I am doing that here? The only thing I said was saying that the image is a little bit weird. Or do you think the majority of ukraine are nazi’s?

        • Samsuma@lemmy.ml
          4·
          6 days ago

          Are you saying I am doing that here?

          To be precise, mostly the latter of my comment applies, yes.

          Do you think the majority of ukraine are nazi’s?

          Ultimately, it doesn’t matter what I think, see the linked posts for details, feel free to challenge any of the sources while providing your own.

          • Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world
            21·
            6 days ago

            I don’t see a source that claims that anywhere near the majority of Ukrainians are nazi’s. Would you mind pointing me to that source?

            • Samsuma@lemmy.ml
              1·
              6 days ago

              I don’t see how my comment could be interpreted as claiming “majority”. The point is, you’re downplaying the rampant Nazi problem and its effects within Ukraine, which is ingrained in many aspects (see the sources) and practically institutionalized. the fact that you want to contest this speaks volume to your character.

      • Pherenike@lemmy.ml
        14·
        7 days ago

        Whoever doesn’t obey USA’s commands, USA calls a dictator, and then starts a vilifying campaign to justify intervening and getting rid of him/them. The EU always plays along and certainly Ukraine will not be an exception because it’s all business to them (Putin included) and war is the most profitable of all businesses.

  • softcat@lemmy.caEnglish
    87·
    8 days ago

    I’m interested to hear from someone that will disprove this, surely there are good examples given the voting on this.

  • eldavi@lemmy.mlEnglish
    2121·
    8 days ago

    the comments and the downvotes would be fascinating if it weren’t so clear that they come from a place of deeply ingrained willful ignorance.

    even the american liberal media is starting to admit that this is true, yet american liberals clutch onto it for whatever reason and i wish i could understand why.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        61·
        6 days ago

        Reporting for what, exactly? Which part is misinformation, that Palestinians are fighting a national liberation movement against genocide, or that Ukraine has a non-trivial amount of Nazi brigades like Azov?

        • BoulevardBlvd@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          1·
          3 days ago

          That depends. Name another Nazi brigade. I’ve literally only ever heard Azov when people call Ukrainians Nazis. Where are the rest? What are there names? One brigade does not a political problem make. So where are the rest of the Nazis? What is their influence in government? What laws are they pushing? What do they control? Where are the Nazis?

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
            2·
            3 days ago

            The OUN is a good example, there’s Azov, left-wing parties have been banned by the government, there is rising antisemitism, glorification of Stepan Bandera, demonization of the Soviets, and rising Nationalism. Azov is mentioned often because it’s one of the loudest and proudest Neo-Nazi elements within Ukraine, but Ukraine itself has had a long-running Nationalist strain that has pulled from Stepan Bandera, who aided in the Holocaust and fought against the Red Army.

            • BoulevardBlvd@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              11·
              3 days ago

              Yup. That one’s on me. I should have been more specific. I asked for an example of Nazis with power in Ukraine and you gave it to me.

              Let me try again, what Nazis, specifically named, are in power today? Because what you linked mentioned one politician who is still active today who is vaguely linked to the OUN and it didn’t even tell me what that link was. Similarly “Rising antisemitism” and “rising nationalism” are meaningless in this day and age. I need you to show me what you mean when you say those things. I asked for evidence, not more claims.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                3·
                3 days ago

                Stepan Bandera isn’t active today, he was a Nazi collaborating fascist that the nationalists in Ukraine that make up the majority of the current political climate generally uphold as good. This leads me to believe that you aren’t really familiar at all with Ukraine’s history, at which point you’re better off not trying to get it drip fed from me, but instead read up on it and then come to your own analysis before engaging online.

                That being said, because you did directly ask, there have been many far-right celebrations of Bandera and have been happening for decades. I even deliberately avoided Israeli sources, because the Zionists in control of Israel often label pro-Palestinian protestors as anti-semetic, but the Ukrainian neo-nazis are the real deal.

                The article also mentions that in 2014, Azov was incorporated into its armed forces in an official capacity. This wasn’t a brigade that became Neo-Nazi later, it was added after. The government deliberately and knowingly incorporated them.

                I really do recommend you do your own research on this, though, as it’s clear that you don’t have a firm grasp of Ukraine’s history, or what has gradually led up to the Russo-Ukrainian war.

        • ReakDuck@lemmy.ml
          3·
          7 days ago

          Unsure whats going on. But seems like the upvotes symbolize a wave of trolls.

          The comment got removed with a good reason