A lot of people from Reddit refuse to come here due to the association with tankies, as evidenced in the name Lemmy.
Also PieFed has little to do with Lemmy, except being interoperable with it, like K/Mbin. And Sublinks will introduce newer even more complicated terminology as in “the instance formerly using Lemmy, now having switched over to Sublinks”:-).
Anyway we already have both Lemmy and Fediverse, so the purpose of this third name is to represent the not-just-Lemmy portion of the Fediverse. Threadiverse is a horrible name… but the only one people seem willing to use. Forumverse?
Threads is dead, maybe we should finally just let it go? Oh, and use of Threadiverse predated that existing in any case. It’s solidly our term, not theirs… if we want it.
Oh for sure. Both having implemented the ActivityPub protocol and being interoperable on the Threadiverse/Fediverse is a huge deal.
But I wouldn’t go so far as to say that PieFed works on the Lemmyverse (technically that would be true, but also the reverse as well).
PieFed is its own whole entirely separate and distinct deal from Lemmy. Unlike e.g. Beehaw that is just an instance running old Lemmy software, or Tesseract being an alternate front-end for a Lemmy back-end.
Similarly Mbin has very little to do with Lemmy in this manner of speaking as well, just interrelating on the Fediverse, but via its own entirely distinct implementation of the ActivityPub protocol there too.
Most end users - especially the more creative types aka “content creators” - don’t seem to care how something gets done, so long as it does. Thus UX matters far more, hence why PieFed is amazing, offering such features as Categories of Communities (even customized, shareable ones!), hashtags, an onboarding wizard signing up a new account with community subscriptions and common filter options, and among many other things, one of my favorite is the ability to see the community side-bar content below every single post (imagine stumbling upon ChapoTrapHouse@hexbear.net - which yeah no longer exists, but anyway - via the All feed, and knowing what you were walking into by replying to it!).
Even so, yeah it is the protocol that makes that happen - and yet also PieFed provides a back-end that does not depend upon Lemmy. Code is code, but still some people don’t like it, and tbh it does have authoritarianism baked right in deeply to its core concepts: e.g. it provides a modlog but no modmail, and even hides which mod did an action so that you cannot DM them to ask why. Lemmy is very much a true “Reddit alternative”.
In contrast, PieFed provides features that allow for democratization of moderation - putting more power into the hands of the end users to control their personal experiences, thereby allowing mods to have a more hands-off approach. An example is the aforementioned filters: if someone has their own filter against posts containing words like “Trump” or “Musk”, then a community mod could not remove a post that uses them, allowing people to either see or not see them in that community, as they have specified their choice to be. That’s a wonderful option! But it takes a lot of effort to achieve, and PieFed provides some tools along those lines to help make that kind of vision a reality.
I think I’ve mentioned this before but I personally really don’t like the way piefed is so opinionated. It focuses on low karma, high downvote rate, for some reason doesn’t award karma for memes and I just saw that “recognition of 4chan posts” feature which is just weird. To me, there can be legit reasons for all these things and I don’t think it’s the job of the software to handle these. That seems very opinionated/authoritarian to me.
Which post is that, can you share a link? The main thing with the democratization of moderation features on PieFed is how it places tools into the hands of the users, who unlike authoritianism, can decide whatever they want to do about what they see, individually and personally.
So e.g. while lemmy.ml will ban you from communities that you’ve never even heard of across the entire instance if you make a comment that violates no written rules (you are supposed to somehow “just know” that the anti-bigotry rule means that you can e.g. criticize genocide done by Western nations, but not done by Russia, China, or North Korea), PieFed merely places an icon next to the username, leaving it up to the recipient to decide what it means to them. Some are quite helpful, like if an account is under 2 weeks old, that’s someone who is still learning the ropes, or someone who posts often but hardly ever comments, that’s likely an unregistered bot account (or a human equivalent). Admittedly the rules to define all of those are still undergoing tweaking, but I like the idea in principle. Especially if users can choose to not display the icons at all.
Speaking of, a couple other related features affect the display of comments based on a combined up and downvote measure. One of these automatically collapses the comment chain - which requires just one click to open it back up fully - and another threshold hides the controversial/unpopular comment from view entirely. I have both of these disabled entirely, but for such people who want to live inside their echo chamber, I support their right to do so. Having a tool increases choices, and it’s up to them to use it properly. And it’s neat that PieFed allows the expansion of choices beyond merely moderator allows or denies content, to include more complex and nuanced views.
In one sense then it’s the opposite of the opinionated Lemmy, which can only remove, lock, or ban users posting content that the moderator does not like, while on PieFed the moderator can leave it up to the end user to decide its fate, with help from the community overall.
So if on Lemmy the only options are “hard”, like shouting, then yeah, PieFed is opinionated but in a “soft” way, like whispering, leaving the content up but placing a label next to it - though to reiterate again, the content can be left up, which is a huge difference.
Here’s another example: on every single post from certain instances, a message can be placed. For now the only instance this is used for, on the flagship instance PieFed.social, is Beehaw, which offers:
And that link goes to the actual words of the Beehaw admins describing themselves. Imagine if, for instance, someone were told that you were not allowed to criticize Russia, China, or North Korea, BEFORE having to find out the hard way, by posting or commenting and then being instance-banned, and even then not receiving a notification about that, so having to dig out what even happened, and then dig further to try to figure out why, etc. Lemmy is VERY authoritarian in nature - yes modlog but no modmail, or even a notification that content was removed, or being banned.
So yeah, in contrast, PieFed is “opinionated”, offering those soft whispers, but that’s a far cry from being so heavily a Reddit alternative that is somehow arguably even more authoritative than Reddit itself!?
Also, the Sync and Connect have many of these same features for Lemmy as well. For those who enjoy such features, PieFed has a lot to offer!:-)
for such people who want to live inside their echo chamber, I support their right to do so.
My point is that I don’t think the software should be doing this stuff. Marking users and instances is akin to a kind of censorship on those instances. Censorship is the job of the instance, not the software. Collapsing comments at a certain level is again a kind of censorship that encourages mob thinking and hides any dissident opinion (so I find it a bit funny that you say it helps to include “more complex and nuanced views”; in my opinion, it would seem to do the opposite of that).
Anyways that’s just my take on it, I don’t really have the patience to write out a 10 paragraph response and I don’t need to because I use what I prefer and you can use what you prefer, fediverse is great like that.
Google it (not DuckDuckGo or Kagi or some such! Importantly, use actual Google on this one, bc we are talking Reddit normies here who will use that). There are multiple answers actually, and they all point to the identical association between the word Lemmy and actual tankies.
I was gonna go more with the top Lemmy instance being lemmy.ml, which has its default set to Local rather than All, so instead of getting a broad picture of the Fediverse you see a heavy dose of BoTh SiDeS sAmE propaganda, just before election season in several countries.
Ahhhh, I honestly just took the default in the voyager app and didn’t rlly question it at all. I also don’t quite understand how instances work yet (like I get the technical idea behind it but I rlly dont know how it works in practice). I guess I will figure it out. Also, always fun to scream at tankies CUZ THEY ARE THE WRONG KIND OF LEFTIE!
There are multiple communities dedicated to pointing out some of that bullshit, like !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works, and ofc that instance I mentioned features heavily in communities such as !fediverselore@lemmy.ca and !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com due to its heavy authoritarian stance that removes content that criticizes Russia, China, or North Korea, despite there being no written rule against such.
There most definitely are real and actual leftists here, like slrpnk.net and lemmy.dbzer0.com, but the drama that tankies cause is legendary. Which in turn causes a lot of people on Reddit to steer clear of Lemmy altogether, since the lead developers are tankies, hence authoritarianism is baked right into the code, the same as Reddit, combined with a smaller user base here.
A lot of people from Reddit refuse to come here due to the association with tankies, as evidenced in the name Lemmy.
Also PieFed has little to do with Lemmy, except being interoperable with it, like K/Mbin. And Sublinks will introduce newer even more complicated terminology as in “the instance formerly using Lemmy, now having switched over to Sublinks”:-).
Anyway we already have both Lemmy and Fediverse, so the purpose of this third name is to represent the not-just-Lemmy portion of the Fediverse. Threadiverse is a horrible name… but the only one people seem willing to use. Forumverse?
Threads is dead, maybe we should finally just let it go? Oh, and use of Threadiverse predated that existing in any case. It’s solidly our term, not theirs… if we want it.
Seems like quite a link to be honest
Oh for sure. Both having implemented the ActivityPub protocol and being interoperable on the Threadiverse/Fediverse is a huge deal.
But I wouldn’t go so far as to say that PieFed works on the Lemmyverse (technically that would be true, but also the reverse as well).
PieFed is its own whole entirely separate and distinct deal from Lemmy. Unlike e.g. Beehaw that is just an instance running old Lemmy software, or Tesseract being an alternate front-end for a Lemmy back-end.
Similarly Mbin has very little to do with Lemmy in this manner of speaking as well, just interrelating on the Fediverse, but via its own entirely distinct implementation of the ActivityPub protocol there too.
But all that matters is the protocol. In time, we’ll have loads of implementations and we should hope we do. More choices for everyone :)
Most end users - especially the more creative types aka “content creators” - don’t seem to care how something gets done, so long as it does. Thus UX matters far more, hence why PieFed is amazing, offering such features as Categories of Communities (even customized, shareable ones!), hashtags, an onboarding wizard signing up a new account with community subscriptions and common filter options, and among many other things, one of my favorite is the ability to see the community side-bar content below every single post (imagine stumbling upon ChapoTrapHouse@hexbear.net - which yeah no longer exists, but anyway - via the All feed, and knowing what you were walking into by replying to it!).
Even so, yeah it is the protocol that makes that happen - and yet also PieFed provides a back-end that does not depend upon Lemmy. Code is code, but still some people don’t like it, and tbh it does have authoritarianism baked right in deeply to its core concepts: e.g. it provides a modlog but no modmail, and even hides which mod did an action so that you cannot DM them to ask why. Lemmy is very much a true “Reddit alternative”.
In contrast, PieFed provides features that allow for democratization of moderation - putting more power into the hands of the end users to control their personal experiences, thereby allowing mods to have a more hands-off approach. An example is the aforementioned filters: if someone has their own filter against posts containing words like “Trump” or “Musk”, then a community mod could not remove a post that uses them, allowing people to either see or not see them in that community, as they have specified their choice to be. That’s a wonderful option! But it takes a lot of effort to achieve, and PieFed provides some tools along those lines to help make that kind of vision a reality.
I think I’ve mentioned this before but I personally really don’t like the way piefed is so opinionated. It focuses on low karma, high downvote rate, for some reason doesn’t award karma for memes and I just saw that “recognition of 4chan posts” feature which is just weird. To me, there can be legit reasons for all these things and I don’t think it’s the job of the software to handle these. That seems very opinionated/authoritarian to me.
Which post is that, can you share a link? The main thing with the democratization of moderation features on PieFed is how it places tools into the hands of the users, who unlike authoritianism, can decide whatever they want to do about what they see, individually and personally.
So e.g. while lemmy.ml will ban you from communities that you’ve never even heard of across the entire instance if you make a comment that violates no written rules (you are supposed to somehow “just know” that the anti-bigotry rule means that you can e.g. criticize genocide done by Western nations, but not done by Russia, China, or North Korea), PieFed merely places an icon next to the username, leaving it up to the recipient to decide what it means to them. Some are quite helpful, like if an account is under 2 weeks old, that’s someone who is still learning the ropes, or someone who posts often but hardly ever comments, that’s likely an unregistered bot account (or a human equivalent). Admittedly the rules to define all of those are still undergoing tweaking, but I like the idea in principle. Especially if users can choose to not display the icons at all.
Speaking of, a couple other related features affect the display of comments based on a combined up and downvote measure. One of these automatically collapses the comment chain - which requires just one click to open it back up fully - and another threshold hides the controversial/unpopular comment from view entirely. I have both of these disabled entirely, but for such people who want to live inside their echo chamber, I support their right to do so. Having a tool increases choices, and it’s up to them to use it properly. And it’s neat that PieFed allows the expansion of choices beyond merely moderator allows or denies content, to include more complex and nuanced views.
In one sense then it’s the opposite of the opinionated Lemmy, which can only remove, lock, or ban users posting content that the moderator does not like, while on PieFed the moderator can leave it up to the end user to decide its fate, with help from the community overall.
So if on Lemmy the only options are “hard”, like shouting, then yeah, PieFed is opinionated but in a “soft” way, like whispering, leaving the content up but placing a label next to it - though to reiterate again, the content can be left up, which is a huge difference.
Here’s another example: on every single post from certain instances, a message can be placed. For now the only instance this is used for, on the flagship instance PieFed.social, is Beehaw, which offers:
And that link goes to the actual words of the Beehaw admins describing themselves. Imagine if, for instance, someone were told that you were not allowed to criticize Russia, China, or North Korea, BEFORE having to find out the hard way, by posting or commenting and then being instance-banned, and even then not receiving a notification about that, so having to dig out what even happened, and then dig further to try to figure out why, etc. Lemmy is VERY authoritarian in nature - yes modlog but no modmail, or even a notification that content was removed, or being banned.
So yeah, in contrast, PieFed is “opinionated”, offering those soft whispers, but that’s a far cry from being so heavily a Reddit alternative that is somehow arguably even more authoritative than Reddit itself!?
Also, the Sync and Connect have many of these same features for Lemmy as well. For those who enjoy such features, PieFed has a lot to offer!:-)
My point is that I don’t think the software should be doing this stuff. Marking users and instances is akin to a kind of censorship on those instances. Censorship is the job of the instance, not the software. Collapsing comments at a certain level is again a kind of censorship that encourages mob thinking and hides any dissident opinion (so I find it a bit funny that you say it helps to include “more complex and nuanced views”; in my opinion, it would seem to do the opposite of that).
Anyways that’s just my take on it, I don’t really have the patience to write out a 10 paragraph response and I don’t need to because I use what I prefer and you can use what you prefer, fediverse is great like that.
Why would the word lemmy be associated with tankies?
Google it (not DuckDuckGo or Kagi or some such! Importantly, use actual Google on this one, bc we are talking Reddit normies here who will use that). There are multiple answers actually, and they all point to the identical association between the word Lemmy and actual tankies.
Like lemmy motörhead dude and his tank?
Uh… sure, that could be one of them, yeah:-).
I was gonna go more with the top Lemmy instance being lemmy.ml, which has its default set to Local rather than All, so instead of getting a broad picture of the Fediverse you see a heavy dose of BoTh SiDeS sAmE propaganda, just before election season in several countries.
But that’s also just one of several:-).
Ahhhh, I honestly just took the default in the voyager app and didn’t rlly question it at all. I also don’t quite understand how instances work yet (like I get the technical idea behind it but I rlly dont know how it works in practice). I guess I will figure it out. Also, always fun to scream at tankies CUZ THEY ARE THE WRONG KIND OF LEFTIE!
Welcome to Lemmy, here are a few pointers to help you settle in
There are multiple communities dedicated to pointing out some of that bullshit, like !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works, and ofc that instance I mentioned features heavily in communities such as !fediverselore@lemmy.ca and !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com due to its heavy authoritarian stance that removes content that criticizes Russia, China, or North Korea, despite there being no written rule against such.
There most definitely are real and actual leftists here, like slrpnk.net and lemmy.dbzer0.com, but the drama that tankies cause is legendary. Which in turn causes a lot of people on Reddit to steer clear of Lemmy altogether, since the lead developers are tankies, hence authoritarianism is baked right into the code, the same as Reddit, combined with a smaller user base here.