The good thing is that on the fediverse, you can improve this situation. Either go to an instance that keeps a watchful eye on power tripping mods and ensure mods are fair, or start your own instance to become that.
you’ll still get filtered by those mods on other instances and the amount of visibility your comment has will go down. lemmy has already gotten fragmentation problems like this for similar reasons IMO
But if those mods are bad and your mods are good, then people will over time go to your instance instead. You can’t control visibility of your stuff on another instance. It wouldn’t be decentralized if you could. Other instances and users can always choose to block you or whatever.
What you call “fragmentation” is really just decentralization and it’s the whole point of the fediverse.
The instance that I mentioned in my first comment, the one with a watchful eye on moderators. It is not a concrete instance, I am talking about an example.
there’s no feedback mechanism that will result in the promotion of instances with better moderation
the federation system is inherently unstable - there’s a positive feedback loop where the instance with the most users attracts the most new users. new users have no to way to gauge the quality of moderation of an instance, and neither do disgruntled current users. additionally, members of smaller instances are less visible, which is an incentive to join a larger instance.
“what instance?” is a rhetorical question, and the only possible answer is “never heard of it.” because there is no means by which a user could have become aware of other instances, regardless of the quality of those other instance’s moderation
there’s no feedback mechanism that will result in the promotion of instances with better moderation
I think that’s very narrow-minded. There definitely is a feedback mechanism, and it’s called word of mouth. Same feedback mechanism used for lots of things. If you don’t like your instance and you hear of a better one, you can switch. You could even imagine users writing reviews for their instances some place so people have an idea of where to go, although such a review aggregator does not exist right now to my knowledge.
new users have no to way to gauge the quality of moderation of an instance, and neither do disgruntled current users
New users can gauge based on what they see, but ultimately it doesn’t matter much. New users should just pick any instance that looks okay to them and they can always switch later if they feel they discover a better choice. Disgruntled current users can switch to a better instance or create their own. If you ask me, there is definitely a feedback mechanism in that sense.
It is true that “big bad” instances may be more visible than “small good” instances, but I think that is only a temporary thing that will get better with time. Good places will keep their users while bad places will slowly lose them to good places, but that doesn’t happen instantaneously.
When was the last time you went with a recommendation made by “word of mouth” instead of Googling reviews? How easy is it to “create a new instance”? How are fragmented instances, with unpaid volunteers that are constantly being criticized meant to be a sustainable model to run ANYTHING?
These arguments just seem stupid and place more work on people who just want to see funnies. That’s how Lemmy dies.
When was the last time you went with a recommendation made by “word of mouth” instead of Googling reviews?
Like, all the time? I constantly hear of recommendations for all kinds of stuff in real life and here on the fediverse. Obviously that’s rarely concerning fediverse instances (never in real life) but it is brought up surprisingly often. Often you’ll find comments like “glad I’m on domain.example”, recommending an instance.
Also who says you couldn’t Google reviews for instances? Seems like a reviewing platform for instances would be useful. Not sure if it exists yet.
How easy is it to “create a new instance”?
Certainly not something for the average user. It is not easy and takes work. But thankfully you need only very few instances compared to users and people have already made instances that are fairly well moderated, I would say.
How are fragmented instances, with unpaid volunteers that are constantly being criticized meant to be a sustainable model to run ANYTHING?
If your instance is good, you shouldn’t be constantly criticised. Or at least, there should be a core of users that enjoy your instance.
Do you have a better suggestion for how to run the fediverse?
These arguments just seem stupid and place more work on people who just want to see funnies. That’s how Lemmy dies.
If a person is too lazy to ever change instances and don’t want to bother with that choice, and don’t even care enough to have the option… Why even be here? That person should just go back to reddit. I’m sure there’s still plenty of funnies to see there.
if defederation from the largest instance is equivalent to death for a smaller instance, then the moderators of that largest instance are in a unique position of responsibility and power and should be held to a higher standard
The good thing is that on the fediverse, you can improve this situation. Either go to an instance that keeps a watchful eye on power tripping mods and ensure mods are fair, or start your own instance to become that.
you’ll still get filtered by those mods on other instances and the amount of visibility your comment has will go down. lemmy has already gotten fragmentation problems like this for similar reasons IMO
But if those mods are bad and your mods are good, then people will over time go to your instance instead. You can’t control visibility of your stuff on another instance. It wouldn’t be decentralized if you could. Other instances and users can always choose to block you or whatever.
What you call “fragmentation” is really just decentralization and it’s the whole point of the fediverse.
what instance? never heard of it.
The instance that I mentioned in my first comment, the one with a watchful eye on moderators. It is not a concrete instance, I am talking about an example.
there’s no feedback mechanism that will result in the promotion of instances with better moderation
the federation system is inherently unstable - there’s a positive feedback loop where the instance with the most users attracts the most new users. new users have no to way to gauge the quality of moderation of an instance, and neither do disgruntled current users. additionally, members of smaller instances are less visible, which is an incentive to join a larger instance.
“what instance?” is a rhetorical question, and the only possible answer is “never heard of it.” because there is no means by which a user could have become aware of other instances, regardless of the quality of those other instance’s moderation
Threads like this usually get quite viral
https://lemmy.world/post/16211417
I think that’s very narrow-minded. There definitely is a feedback mechanism, and it’s called word of mouth. Same feedback mechanism used for lots of things. If you don’t like your instance and you hear of a better one, you can switch. You could even imagine users writing reviews for their instances some place so people have an idea of where to go, although such a review aggregator does not exist right now to my knowledge.
New users can gauge based on what they see, but ultimately it doesn’t matter much. New users should just pick any instance that looks okay to them and they can always switch later if they feel they discover a better choice. Disgruntled current users can switch to a better instance or create their own. If you ask me, there is definitely a feedback mechanism in that sense.
It is true that “big bad” instances may be more visible than “small good” instances, but I think that is only a temporary thing that will get better with time. Good places will keep their users while bad places will slowly lose them to good places, but that doesn’t happen instantaneously.
When was the last time you went with a recommendation made by “word of mouth” instead of Googling reviews? How easy is it to “create a new instance”? How are fragmented instances, with unpaid volunteers that are constantly being criticized meant to be a sustainable model to run ANYTHING?
These arguments just seem stupid and place more work on people who just want to see funnies. That’s how Lemmy dies.
https://lemm.ee/post/41099066/14469644
Like, all the time? I constantly hear of recommendations for all kinds of stuff in real life and here on the fediverse. Obviously that’s rarely concerning fediverse instances (never in real life) but it is brought up surprisingly often. Often you’ll find comments like “glad I’m on domain.example”, recommending an instance.
Also who says you couldn’t Google reviews for instances? Seems like a reviewing platform for instances would be useful. Not sure if it exists yet.
Certainly not something for the average user. It is not easy and takes work. But thankfully you need only very few instances compared to users and people have already made instances that are fairly well moderated, I would say.
If your instance is good, you shouldn’t be constantly criticised. Or at least, there should be a core of users that enjoy your instance.
Do you have a better suggestion for how to run the fediverse?
If a person is too lazy to ever change instances and don’t want to bother with that choice, and don’t even care enough to have the option… Why even be here? That person should just go back to reddit. I’m sure there’s still plenty of funnies to see there.
Wasnt there already an instance that died because of lack of moderation?
I couldnt find the instance name, but i could find posts from people complaining about the instance and it being defederated from lemmy.world
if defederation from the largest instance is equivalent to death for a smaller instance, then the moderators of that largest instance are in a unique position of responsibility and power and should be held to a higher standard
By death, i meant that it doesnt exist anymore
Its not just the defederation of lemmy.world, its the only post i could find
I remember seeing that more instances were defederating when it was happening