People from the African continent and its diasporas will attend workshop to share struggles, experiences and discuss ways to advance reparations
How far back do we go?
Do we just go back to living memory? Do we go beyond? Is the colonialism in the 1800s fair game? What about before that? Do Italy owe reparations for the Romans? Are people owed reparations for the vikings?
Will I be receiving a payout because your caveman ancestor killed one of my caveman ancestors?
It also brings up the question of are African countries liable for their part in things like trading slaves? It’s not like Europe is alone in having a bloody past.
I don’t think the people of today should be paying for the sins of some arsehole rulers 200+ years ago, to be given to people who were never subject to the injustices in history.
This is a cash grab. Nothing more.
You’re still reaping the benefits today from colonialism before your lifetime. Your prosperity is founded on wealth stolen from countries still suffering from the theft. It’s okay to want to repair this.
How far back do you think is valid? Is 300 years, too far to you?
I agree there’s a line. I’d say pre Dark Ages is too far, but I get there’s a limit most people could agree on.
I think you’re confusing rich people with common people.
Those making money in the “homeland” from colonization weren’t the peasants.
I live in a country - Portugal - which when I was born was still a Fascist dictatorship and still had colonies in Africa and back then the vast majority of the population in the country was incredibly poor (to the point of the country getting food help from The Netherlands) but 7 families were incredibly rich (and the white landowners in the “colonies” exploiting the locals and the land they had stolen from them too were rich).
Somehow I don’t think my mother (who walked to school barefoot in Winter as a child) was getting any of that “stolen wealth”.
Blaming the entire nation and everybody in it for colonization done by the country during times of autocracy is just how the wealthy who inherited wealth their ancestors amassed by exploiting people in faraway lands ditch the blame into the sons and daughters of the people who back then were poor and powerless.
Compensate the actual people who suffered (or their close descendands if still alive), not the parasites in power in lands which happenned to have been occupied, and do it with the money of those who gained from their suffering (or the inherited money from close descendants), not the usual Identity Politics bullshit of diluting the blame of a few by blaming whole nations and ethnicities to de facto benefit people who were not victims or descendents of victims but instead just happen to share nationality or ethnicity with the victims, all the while avoiding like crazy talking about the wealthy who were the ones amassing most if not all of the upsides of the pillaging.
I agree colonial powers stole both abroad and domestically. Perhaps, it’s just the richest that need to make amends with the rest of us regardless of nation.
Good luck with that
Reparations for what? At least here in Germany there’s virtually (and I’m covering my bases here, I’m fairly sure that it’s literally nobody) nobody left who could be held even partially responsible for colonialism, and I am not willing to pay for crimes that I did not commit. Very few people are, I’d imagine.
I can’t say I know enough about the topic to have formed an opinion on whether or not reparations would be justified or not. But here is a point I’ve seen made that has stayed with me
While it’s true that none of us actively participated in colonialism, we still continue to profit by it. Many businesses were founded by money made in the colonies or by wares imported from them, many institutions grew by exploiting and stealing from the people living in them. At the same time the people in the former colonies still suffer from the consequences.
It’s a bit similar to calling for the higher taxation of rich people. Often they inherited their money and huge parts of it were made by exploiting poorer people, which is why it seems unfair to many (including me) that they should give back something to society. Some of my ancestors made good money owning a colonial goods store and I’m sure I owe at least part of my privileged situation to this money. I can understand that the descendants of the people who laboured for these goods might not think that that is fair.
But you are willing to reap the beneficial outcomes of a crime you didn’t commit. That doesn’t fit together. As a German myself I have to ask you: does that mean that our state should also not give a single fuck anymore about the victims of the Nazis as “you don’t want to pay for a crime you didn’t commit”? We as Germans should be the first to recognize, that a society can bare responsibility the individual is not responsible for if the descendents still suffer from the consequences!
WTF is wrong with this comment section?!
You’re still reaping the benefits from colonialism before your lifetime. Your prosperity is founded on wealth stolen from countries still suffering from the theft. It’s okay to want to repair this.
If colonialism has made those countries poor, then they should have gotten rich once they were no longer part of a colonial empire. At the same time countries which had large colonial empires should have gotten poor, when loosing their empire.
What we mostly see is that this is not the case. Portugal got rich after its empire collapsed. Spain was about as rich as its former colonies for a long time. France and the UK did not collapse after loosing their colonies. There are rich countries, which never did have many colonies or only small ones for a limited time, like Germany, Scandinavia or Switzerland. You also have Oman, which did not get rich despite having had colonies. We also have Africa, which only has Botswana as a country genuinly benefiting from no longer being a colony. However that was after diamonds were found inside Botswana shortly after independence. Funnily enough Botswana also asked to be a colony. Everybody else more or less failed to get rich.
That is not to say that colonial empires should not pay for crimes they comitted or return stolen artifacts. The benefits of colonialism were mostly going to a small elite in the colonial countries and cost the states a lot of resources, which in many cases would have been better spend on other projects.
If colonialism has made those countries poor, then they should have gotten rich once they were no longer part of a colonial empire. At the same time countries which had large colonial empires should have gotten poor, when loosing their empire.
Of you look closer you will see that these countries often still exert significant control, in particular economically over their “former” colonies.
This reasoning sounds very eurocentric. You talk about monetary values - rich, poor, diamonds - without taking into consideration that other civilizations, have other values, and these should be respected. At least as a proof of actual decolonisation.
The issue with colonialism and coloniality is that it destroyed (and still does actually), the way of being of thriving communities around the world to the point they are not able to be self-sustained as they used to be, before the colonisers arrived there.
I argued against Europe having benefited from having colonies in the Europe community, which by its nature is eurocentric.
As I said Europe should pay for its crimes and I fail to see, that crimes need to benefit the criminal to be considered crimes. However that obviously makes reparations a lot more complex.
The statement in your first paragraph (that you later try to prove as true) is flawed because it is eurocentric.
Eurocentric does not mean talking about Europe. It’s about having a biased perspective that favors or exonerates western civilisations for crimes they committed. Among other things, of course.
In other words you are saying that I am a racist.
Does this hold true even if these countries (often times the population at large, not just the leadership) are avid supporters of imperialism and brutal occupations?
Are those countries this way as a result of the historical theft of their resources? Would uplifting the common person in that country lead to progressive change there?
Difficult to say. One possible area to look into is formerly colonized nations that have experienced very strong economic growth in the last 30 years. What do you think?
Would Brazil be a good example? I believe colonialism ended over 200 years ago and they’ve seen pretty strong growth in the last ~25 years. How would you rate their attitude towards modern colonialilsm?
What about South Africa? Or is that a bad example. Their consistency on the topic of imperialism is interesting to say the least.
Reparations for what?
So many things to say, but I’ll be super brief.
It’s quite common that people who come from colonial countries, they are taught to ignore that one of the reasons that they currently have a higher standard of living as societies (not as individuals) in comparison to the places their ancestors went and colonised is because they took/expoited/stole/etc the resources from these places, including people. In the process the colonisers also trashed the place, as well as local, thriving communities.
So the way I see things, there are stuff that needs to be acknowledged first. Solutions come after.
I do acknowledge that, but a society is made up of individuals. And none of those individuals is responsible for the crimes committed by their ancestors. Guilt is not passed down through generations. I do not believe that people living in former colonies are entitled to reparations because my ancestors committed crimes against their ancestors, even if those crimes still have repercussions in the current day.
guilt isn‘t passed down, you‘re right, but wealth and control are. And this is what connects past and present. Exploitation in the past facilitates exploitation in the present. The system has survived largely unscathed. Of course that’s not your individual fault, but as part of the system you are still at the receiving end.
For me, saying “yes, but I didn’t do it”, is not acknowledgement because you live in a society still profiting of it (btw when I say “you”, I hope it’s clear it’s totally not personal). It’s a matter of coming to terms with that fact and then use it as a starting point for the conversation.
I think there might be a solution to this problem most can agree with.
Not long ago there was talk about this research that showed that colonialism wasn’t profitable for the countries undertaking it. What was omitted though was that somebody did profit. Private citizens. Companies. And: they’re still around. The ones who did profit and their families and companies. And lately it seems they kinda own us all. So how about reparations for all the ones who lost out in the gold rush. Who own no land, have no property, no capital. From all nations.
You ask for reparations for colonialism, while at the same time supporting russia’s genocidal, imperialist invasion.
EDIT: This is not aimed at the poster. More so the countries that would receive these proposed reparations and a much lesser extent Amnesty itself (the director of Ukrainian Amnesty international resigned after the head office released some asisine accusations against the UA army).
Ftr, since I was confused about this comment as well: https://www.politico.eu/article/head-amnesty-international-ukraine-quits-report-kyiv-war-tactics-russia-propaganda/
To me, it doesn’t support the accusation of intentional support for Russia but playing into their propaganda with a flawed report.
That’s a fair point.
