My wife’s phone dies every. single. day. and I don’t know why she doesn’t just charge it at night.

I’m just wondering how people live like this 😅

  • memphis@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Keeping Lithium-ion batteries at 100% charge will reduce their lifespan. They want to live in the 40-80% range. I use an app that notifies me when my phone has charged to 80%, so that I can unplug it. It may be overkill, but I plan to use this phone for 9 more years or so.

    • GlenTheFrog@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      9 more years?? I’ve gotten almost 6 years out of my Oneplus 5T and I’ve been ecstatic about it. It’s literally lasted 3 times longer than any phone I’ve had before it

      • memphis@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I have a Fairphone, and repairability is one of their main selling points! 9 years is optimistic but shoot for the stars right?

    • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Both iphone and androids have an OS option to stop charging at 85 though - I keep it on all the time unless I’m going to need that extra bit of juice

    • RomanRoy@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Me too. Samsung has a feature to “protect battery life”, so it only charges until 85%. You can keep it on power, but it won’t surpass 85%.

    • rm_dash_r_star@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      They want to live in the 40-80% range.

      Yes, that’s correct but with some extra consideration. There’s two kinds of wear for Li-Ion batteries, shelf life and cycle life. To maximize shelf life you want to store at 40% to %50% charge in a cool environment. To maximize cycle life you want to avoid charging and discharging fully.

      There’s two curves where cycle life and shelf life cross for maximum longevity. For example if you shut off your Li-Ion powered device or remove the battery for long periods, shelf life becomes more significant. Storing at 40% charge in a cool environment will maximize battery life. If you discharge frequently, then keeping the charge cycle shallow will maximize longevity since that’s going to be most significant.

      Honestly it’s complicated to deal with and squeezing all the life you can out of a battery is typically not worth the trouble. Though it’s definitely nice when chargers give you options, most don’t.

      In general Li-Ion batteries are highly desirable for their top tier energy density and that’s why they’re so ubiquitous, but the wear and safety considerations are big disadvantages. The holy grail of battery technology is to eliminate those issues.

  • DrFuggles@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    Same thing with my girlfriend. I even got a charger and a cable just for her exclusive use but she keeps unplugging my phone because “it has more charge than mine”. Which, fair, but like??? It didn’t have to be this way??

  • sneakyninjapants@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    I feel this pain. Wife’s battery-powered devices are always in a constant state of dying. Something has convinced her that it’s better to let the battery almost! die, then charge it to full, but not leave it plugged in because that will degrade the battery; meaning it never gets charged overnight. I’m sure there’s a small kernel of truth in where she learned that, but it’s almost a joke at this point when she goes scrambling for her charger when using her phone, tablet, etc. It’s painful, but also adorable? I guess. Anyway, it’s not a hill I’m willing to die on, so I just let it be and laugh almost everytime it happens.

    • killall-q@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      She needn’t worry about manually optimizing battery wear, and, in fact, the most harmful thing you can do to a battery is to fully deplete it frequently.

      Educate her about built-in optimized battery charging. iPhones and some Androids have it.

      • entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org
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        1 year ago

        This. My wife and I have that setting turned on on our Samsung phones. Mine is 3 years old and I still get all-day battery

    • Zamboniman@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      Something has convinced her that it’s better to let the battery almost! die, then charge it to full, but not leave it plugged in because that will degrade the battery

      That was true a long time ago when NiCad batteries were around. But, since they had the problems you described, they’re not around any more, and phones generally all use lithium-ion batteries which don’t have this issue.

    • SilentStorms@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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      1 year ago

      I think that was true like… 10+ years ago, but battery and power management tech have advanced so that’s no longer necessesary. I think running full cycles on your battery is actually bad for it now, I set mine to stop charging when it hits 85% to preserve battery health.

      Sounds stressful constantly worrying about battery life, plopping it on a wireless charger before bed is the way to go.

      • Captain_Shoe@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        I would love if iOS had a “stop charging at 85% option” like that. What I currently do is a shortcut routine with a wireless charger connected to a smart plug that turns off the plug when the phone reaches 85%. It works, but I would love to be able to have it work without a smart plug routine.

  • rm_dash_r_star@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    There’s actually a safety factor there. When Li-Ion (lithium-ion) batteries fail and suffer thermal runaway (fire), it’s most commonly during charging. It’s rare, but it does still happen. The rule is to avoid charging Li-Ion powered devices unattended. I do that at times myself, but I realize the risk and actually put things in a “charging pot” if unattended.

    You don’t need anything fancy to use as a charging pot, a ceramic casserole dish will do. If you’re going to charge while asleep or out of the house it’s not a bad idea to use some kind of containment.

    • shapesandstuff@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      I genuinely don’t understand how this works for so many people. When i watch something, I watch it and wont sleep until i make the concious decision to stop paying attention and close my eyes. Same with books or anything really. Maybe music works

      • dragnucs@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Depends on the subject and how much interested you put in it. If the video is just random dumb shit with music, then you fall asleep. If it is a nice interesting movie you may stay awake. Even so, if the movie is boring, you may fall asleep.

  • Steinsprut@szmer.info
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    1 year ago

    I have a wireless charger on my desk, pretty much almost every day I already have 100% when going to bed

  • Synapse@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Because I try to charge my phone when I am in the office, as much as possible. There are no small savings in my book :D

    • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Not necessarily. Many phones will charge more slowly during the night if you set a morning alarm. You could be wearing down you battery when you charge at work.

  • tmpod@lemmy.ptM
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    1 year ago

    I used to never charge my phone at night, because of my battery health pedantry. I the found the AccA app which enables me to limit the maximum charging, so now I sometimes leave it changing during the night.

    • R0cket_M00se@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      If you’re still convinced you need to run your battery down to zero you’re operating on outdated knowledge of NiCad batteries and ruining your lithium ion batteries.

      My Android phone has a built in functionality to charge so that it hits 100% when your alarm is rigged to go off. Idk about iphone though.

      • tmpod@lemmy.ptM
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        1 year ago

        I was not talking about running the battery down to 0, that’s no good for li-ion batteries either. I was talking about the exact, opposite, reaching 100% and staying there for hours on end (which happens during the night). With AccA I can set an upper limit.

        • Nugget_in_biscuit@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Hi Tmpod! This is actually a common misconception among the general device-using public!

          You are absolutely correct that a NMC-chemistry lithium battery (this is the kind of battery used in phones) will degrade if you maintain a state of charge (“SOC”) for long periods of time that is either above 90% or below 10%. Of course, phone manufacturers know this too, and they have set the charging software to block off the top of the pack, which allows the user to safely leave their phone on the charger indefinitely.

            • Nugget_in_biscuit@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              If you want a short answer, then the answer is that it’s probably a placebo for devices with big batteries, and it’s real for foldables with much less room for packaging.

              If you want a long answer (with some speculation), then the answer is that battery management is always a balance between longevity and usability. Let’s use the examples of an iPhone and a Tesla. The iPhone has an average lifetime of 2-4 years (after which 90% of shipped units will likely be recycled / refurbished), while the car has an expected lifetime of 10-20 years. Moreover, the small phone battery can be replaced for $50, while a 78.8 kWH model 3 battery can cost upwards of $10,000 and comes standard with a legally-mandated 120,000 mile warranty (in the USA). It’s very tempting to apply the same battery management strategy to the car as well as the phone. But this would be foolish.

              Before we go any further, you need to understand a bit about how to measure the charge of a battery. All lithium chemistries feature a relationship between the voltage of the cell and the amount of current it can sustain. This relationship forms a curve called the “charge curve.” Since we usually try to keep batteries from exploding, charge curves generally start at or slightly above the maximum safe cell voltage (this is the true 100% of a cell), and the available current drops steadily until you reach a cutoff point where it rapidly falls to zero (usually the is 0% set before this cutoff since this region will quickly foul the internal structure of the battery). Since engineers are cautious, we usually back off of true cell range by a few millivolts. You can use some math to derive the available watt-hours of energy left in your cell by measuring the voltage, which is how you derive the percent charge.

              Back to the main topic. You already know that cycling the battery causes it to degrade. But there are actually a bunch of things that will degrade a cell, such as age, temperature, and time spent at the extreme ends of the charge curve. Any properly engineered system using rechargeable batteries was designed as a compromise between cell longevity, cell performance, and system cost. In my above example, the car has a long lifespan because engineers tilted the balance in favor of cell longevity at the expense of cell performance (bigger battery pack to allow usable range between 20-80% SOC) and overall cost (bigger pack plus advanced BMS and thermal management). By contrast, the phone is only going to last a few years, and the users want to absolutely maximize the battery life per charge. Moreover, since modern phones can get new batteries cheaply, the OEM is incentivized to favor performance over cost and longevity.

              So now we know that a phone should use the battery harder than a car. But phones also have another trick up their sleeve: the charge reported in the UI is often not directly representative of the actual state of charge. For example, a phone can mask some degradation by allowing it to charge deeper into the pack as it gets older (yes, this increases degradation, but it’s less important since the phone is nearing the end of its life). In addition, most phones use AI trickery to learn your schedule, which allows them to maintain the pack at 80% overnight, and then pack electrons in right before you disconnect the charger (note: charging non-LFP chemistries to 100% is generally OK so long as you don’t leave it there for an extended period). And if that isn’t enough fun for you, specialty form factor devices such as foldables are often a lot more aggressive with cell utilization to make up for packaging limitations (you don’t hear much about foldable battery issues because upmarket users generally swap devices more frequently). Now you have enough info to answer one of your two questions: yes, you can leave your phone plugged in, because the engineers who designed it understand the behavior of the average user, and are smart enough to create a device that will fail long after you sold it to get a new one.

              So, if you are still reading this far, what about the 85% charge limit? The charge limit feature was rolled out primarily to foldables, which as mentioned previously are designed to get more cell performance at the expense of cell longevity. The fact that they created this feature means their engineers likely weren’t able to satisfactorily achieve a 4-year cell life while also attaining a usable battery performance during daily usage, and created this as a band-aid. So unless you are part of the minority of foldable users, this problem is not your problem, and you can sleep soundly knowing that the hundreds of EE’s who designed your cell phone were able to set up a system that will last longer than you plan to keep your phone.

              Note: I can’t really speak much to how Samsung does battery management, so take what you see here with a grain of salt

          • raubarno@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Why can’t it be as easy as a relay (or transistor) switch that cuts off the power?

            • Nugget_in_biscuit@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              This is basically how charging works today. There are transistors in the power management module that stop the battery from charging once it reaches the specific voltage that the software deems is appropriate

    • Ataraxia@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I use Samsung built in feature to limit to 85% and I’m so glad they implemented it because I was about to either try to look for an app again or stop charging at night…

    • Distributed@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Requires root? I’d rather degrade my battery than run an out-of-date, more vulnerable operating system…

      • bjwest@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I use a chargie. It’s a physical Bluetooth connected device that connects between the phone and charger and lets you set your own charge limit. Works great with my wireless charger at night. I also have one for my tablet.