• electric_nan@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    54
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    1 month ago

    Damn, full support for a genocide that is unpopular with their own electorate, and this is the thanks they get? If you’re willing to lose due to principles, at least make them good principles.

    • Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      45
      ·
      1 month ago

      It’s not genocide, it’s ethnic cleansing/stealing land. If all the Palestinians left for some place else, Israel would not pursue them to exterminate them, they’d just steal their land. It’s Palestinian land that Israel is stealing. The Palestinians are just in the way.

      • deviants@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        49
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 month ago

        You just described a genocide, like one of the plain text definitions of a genocide. Mass murdering a group of people to steal their land.

        Doesn’t matter that you’ve made up a hypothetical fantasy scenario where they aren’t caged in cornered, but have free movement, it’s still a genocide.

        Oh, and they aren’t free to leave, they are caged and cornered.

        So you’re wrong, and you’re wrong again.

        • Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          16 days ago

          The Palestinians are not an ethnic group. They are people who live in Palestine, and are from many ethnicities and religious professions. They are being murdered because of where they live, not technically because of their ethnicity. If they all left of their own accord, Israel would not pursue them to murder them. Israel is murdering them to steal their land. Hence not genocide.

          • deviants@slrpnk.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            13 days ago

            Did you really just say that if the indigenous inhabitants simply left their homes and wandered into the desert, then Israel wouldn’t be forced to commit a genocide?

            • Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              12 days ago

              What the fuck are you talking about? Where did I even touch on “Forced to commit genocide”? So shut the fuck up. The Israeli’s are choosing to do this. The Israeli intent is to chase non-Jews out of the land they want to steal. Israel is committing a different crime against humanity other than genocide. The Israelis are choosing to commit ethnic cleansing. The ethnicity of the people in Gaza who aren’t Jewish doesn’t matter to the Israelis. They just want them gone, chased out or murdered, no matter what their ethnicity or faith if they aren’t Jewish. It doesn’t make any difference to Bibi. And as long as that’s what Israel is doing, those who supply the means to Israel need to stop providing those means.

        • Zexks@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          12
          ·
          1 month ago

          By what definition

          Wiki

          Genocide is violence that targets individuals because of their membership of a group and aims at the destruction of a people.[a][2]

          Dictionary

          the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

          Cambridge dictionary

          genocide noun [ C or U ] UK /ˈdʒen.ə.saɪd/ US /ˈdʒen.ə.saɪd/ Add to word list the crime of intentionally destroying part or all of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group, by killing people or by other methods:

          So by what definition do you add ‘land’.

      • crapwittyname@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        27
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 month ago

        With all the good will in the world, my friend, you need to look up the definitions of genocide. Pursuing a population to exterminate then is NOT a prerequisite for genocide.

      • leftytighty@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        23
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 month ago

        what’s the point of this argument even if you’re right? fuck what Israel is actually doing, I don’t care what it’s called. Fuck them

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      67
      ·
      1 month ago

      Out in the real world, Hamas committed genocide on October 7. Israel is in Gaza in an attempt to destroy Hamas and free the hostages that were taken on that day.

      “Genocide Joe” is just a meme spread by internet cranks that’s a very tiny minority of voters, insignificant compared to the number of voters that know the difference between a war and a genocide.

      • crapwittyname@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        37
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 month ago

        Israel’s “attempt to destroy Hamas” has killed tens of thousands of children. Stop apologising for genocide. You cunt.

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          33
          ·
          1 month ago

          Hamas committed genocide. Y’all are trying to use the bullshit “both sides” strategy on actual genocide to to give cover for the monsters in Hamas. You’re only fooling yourselves with this bullshit, society is rightly ignoring you for your disgusting behavior to get internet points by exploiting the suffering of real people.

          If you actually cared about Palestinians you’d be demanding Hamas release the hostages. But you don’t want that to happen because you get sick entertainment from the suffering of Palestinians that Hamas provides to you by continuing with their war crimes. You’re ghouls.

          • crapwittyname@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            24
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            1 month ago

            No they didn’t. They committed atrocious war crimes, but not genocide. Israel committed genocide.

            There’s no both sides to this, only the oppressor, Israel, creating an environment where Hamas is inévitable.

            If you really cared about Palestinians you’d stop dropping tower blocks on their children.

            • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              34
              ·
              1 month ago

              Hamas went into villages and everyone they couldn’t carry back to their underground lairs they butchered. Murdered women and children. This wasn’t people catching stray bullets from a firefight or getting some shrapnel from a nearby explosion. This was monsters beheading people and desecrating their corpses. Playing with the decapitated heads of their victims because they were told to by their superiors.

              Any why? Because they weren’t of the ethnicity and religious group that Hamas thinks should be living in the area.

              That’s genocide. The only reason the number killed wasn’t hire was because Hamas didn’t have the capability of killing more. The willingness to do it is most certainly there.

              And this wasn’t planned by some rogue splinter of Hamas. This was planned and executed by Yahya Sinwar, the current leader of Hamas. He and the rest of Hamas need to be brought to justice. If that’s not possible they need to be killed. They are genocidal monsters and should not be allowed to continue existing on this planet.

              To you the word genocide is just a propaganda tool. You don’t know what it means to actually be against genocide. And because of your lack of concern over an actual genocide occurring, you’ve strayed to be on the same side as genocidal monsters. Making excuses for them, spreading their propaganda for them. Carrying water for genocidal monsters.

              You are pro-genocide, whether you know it or not. You may feel that by being the first one to cast judgment on others makes you immune to being judged yourself. But it doesn’t work that way. You are being judged for your support for the real genocidal monsters of the world.

              • crapwittyname@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                23
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                1 month ago

                Mate. I know what genocide means. It’s not murder or slaughter, as bad as they are, it’s:

                the deliberate and organized destruction of a racial or ethnic group, either in whole or in large part, by a government or its agents.

                Stray bullets and shrapnel? TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DEAD, you fuck. One in TEN Palestinians in Gaza have been murdered by the Israeli state.

                It’s you who is being judged for your support of genocidal monsters. I’m not on here arguing for Hamas. Fuck Hamas. You are on here arguing for Israel.

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          35
          ·
          1 month ago

          Hamas committed genocide on October 7. They should be destroyed for that crime. You’re pro-genocide because you want Hamas given a pass for their genocide.

            • Zexks@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              17
              ·
              1 month ago

              Who’s chewing for who now

              Hamas official, Hamad Al-Regeb in an April 2023 sermon: He prayed for “annihilation” and “paralysis” of the Jews whom he described as filthy animals: “[Allah] transformed them into filthy, ugly animals like apes and pigs because of the injustice and evil they had brought about.” Al-Regeb also prayed for the ability to “get to the necks of the Jews.”

              Hamas member, Ghazi Hamad on October 24, 2023: “Israel is a country that has no place on our land […] because it constitutes a security, military, and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nation.” (October 24, 2023, LBC TV (Lebanon)). He also vowed to repeat the October 7 attacks “time and again until Israel is annihilated,” and expressing a desire to “sacrifice martyrs” (referring to Gazan civilians) for Hamas’ ideological aim of destroying Israel.

              Hamas senior leader Khaled Mashal stated on October 19, 2023 that he views the current loss of civilian life in Gaza – brought about by Hamas’ strategy of using human shields – as essential: “No nation is liberated without sacrifices… In all wars, there are some civilian victims. We are not responsible for them.” Hamas senior leader Ismail Haniyeh, commenting on the loss of civilian life in Gaza on October 26, 2023: “The blood of the women, children and elderly […] we are the ones who need this blood, so it awakens within us the revolutionary spirit.”

      • goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        23
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 month ago

        Buddy I don’t think you know the meaning of genocide if you think Oct 7 was one. Or not happening now

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 month ago

          They’ve been firing rockets at Israeli population centers for more than a decade. Just because Hamas has shit rockets and Israel has invested billions in protecting their people from them doesn’t mean Hamas hasn’t been trying to kill as many Israelis as they can. And on one day Israel’s defenses against Hamas slipped up and we saw the result.

          • Doom@ttrpg.network
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 month ago

            how do you feel that bibi funded Hamas and took moves to make that situation the case and also what about the fact Gaza is an open air prison? any thoughts on that?

            • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 month ago

              how do you feel that bibi funded Hamas

              Weirdo conspiracy theory. People thinking that because Israel negotiated with Hamas in the past, that constitutes “funding them”. This is actually an argument against Israel negotiating with Hamas for a ceasefire right now if you apply critical thinking to this weirdo narrative.

              also what about the fact Gaza is an open air prison

              October 7 proved the necessity of building a fence to try to prevent Hamas from doing cross border raids and also proved the necessity of a blockade to prevent them from getting weapons. Obviously the fence wasn’t effective, but arguing against efforts to prevent Hamas from crossing into Israel and killing people is not something any rational person would continue to do. But that’s the nature of all of this isn’t it? You’re indoctrinated into repeating the same slogans over and over again, and even when it becomes obvious that the slogan makes no sense anymore, you continue repeating it because you’re unable to think about the meaning behind the words and are unable to adapt to any change in the situation.

      • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 month ago

        The IDF killed more Israeli civilians than Hamas did on that day. They do not care about their people when it comes to being hostages.

        • Saleh@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 month ago

          That is not known. It is known that the IDF shot at many of their civillians in Hamas captivity either with complete disregard for what they are shooting, or deliberately to avoid them being used as bargaining in hostage dealy.

          The exact numbers however are unknown and before there can be an independent investigation, the extent will never be published. I wouldnt be suprised if the IDF and Israeli government have a good idea of the numbers, but they for sure will try to bury them.

          • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 month ago

            I know theres no proof yet but to me, Hamas had good reason to keep their hostages alive, they also thought it would help keep themselves alive. Israel was the one who wanted the hostages dead rather than hostages.

            Just based on incentives alone, not even considering the difference in firepower, I’d say its more likely hostages were killed by IDF than Hamas.