Oh boy, I can tell you’re not here for a good faith argument. Puberty blockers are explicitly TO delay puberty until they can be sure. Nothing wrong with them
Yup, puberty blockers let trans youth prevent the onset of gender characteristics during puberty so that they can make an informed decision on what they want when they are an adult. It’s basically all upsides and, if the youth decides to go ahead with the puberty matching their birth sex it’s trivial to do so… but it keeps that door open so time doesn’t force a decision on them.
So you consider the side effects an acceptable risk?
Doctors that are specialized in that field should know that better than you or me, no?
But I’ll humor you anyway. You know what also has side effects? Going through puberty. And those side effects are permanent. If your puberty changes you in ways that don’t align with your gender identity, those side effects include higher risk of dying by suicide, as one example. So yeah, that seems like a risk that I, with my unqualified opinion, would be willing to take in order to make sure my child and their doctors have enough time to figure out who they are and what they need.
Im so glad you brought up that example because a review of the literature commissioned by the nhs found that the results where of low certainty and had no reduction in mental health gender dysphoria or psychosocial impact.
Im going to assume a review of all the peer reviewed literature should know better than docters with a financial incentive to continue providing said services.
Yeah you didn’t read all that study and you don’t understand what blockers are for. Nobody is saying they are a cure for gender dysmorphia. It’s to prevent further development and facilitate better treatment later on.
What the study is saying is patients still need psychiatric support, not that blockers are useless.
The vast majority of doctors that specialize in gender care and endocrinology disagree with that small minority of doctors who aren’t specialists in this field.
It’s like asking a dentist for their opinion on brain surgery. They’re not qualified to have one.
I dont really care what the practising doctors say i care what the published peer reviewed docters say i they say its ineffective at achieving its goals of reduced harm.
The Cass report has been thoroughly debunked. This is the exact report I was referring to when I talked about Drs with agendas commenting on things they’re not experts on.
Here’s an article discussing the recent study that demonstrates how gender-affirming care bans are killing trans kids.
And let’s get real here. You’re the same poster that believes hormones are cosmetic. So you don’t believe in science, biology, or medicine. Or are just blantantly transphobic and let whatever non-sense fall out of your mouth that you think will prove your point. Who’s really harming kids here? I hope you get banned, fr.
You’re still nowhere near the expertise of doctors who go through nedical school for a decade or more and some even write papers for those peer reviewed journals. And some of their doctor peers review those papers before publishing journals.
Nobody is going to listen to you or some insurance company bean counter about medical advice over a qualified medical professional. They certainly should make it illegal for insurance companies to deny care contradicting doctors.
If there is anyone who knows anything it is the insurance companies. Thats their literal job to calculate the risks of something costly with heigh accuracy so they can put a price on it thus distributing a large single cost across many people as a small regular cost. If an insurance company doeant want to do somthing hiatory would tell us there is a damn good reason why.
At what point in your childhood were you so sure that you were not the gender that matches your biological sex that suicide was not an insignificant consideration due to the lack of support?
Yes, you have already been shown by others why your meta-study, which predates the study the article I linked to discusses, is both faulty and doesn’t make the argument you think it makes.
You should be aware that when new information replaces old information in science, you should defer to the new information. You are doing the opposite.
Yeah, also why can children consent to any medical treatment? Not dying of treatable conditions is altering their body, and that’s literally bad. I’m so smart and compassionate, I’m basically literally a doctor.
They cant their parents can tho. Puberty blockers are not a life saving treatment they are physical only and thus just like plastic surgery shouldnt be given to kids. And no u cant argue they will kill themselves if they dont get treated there is plenty of peer reviewed papers proving that to be false.
Hormones absolutely affect more than cosmetic things.
I started hormone replacement therapy 2 months ago. I spent four decades before that wanting to commit suicide.
I still mostly look like a man and my mental health has vastly improved. I’m less defensive less reactionary more open. I get a long better with everybody in my life.
Including myself.
Being congruent with your gender both chemically and socially helps people feel more joy happiness and self-acceptance.
That is not cosmetic and you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Like I said in an earlier comment you’re not a doctor. And you cite doctors that aren’t specialists in the field who have an agenda.
Seriously mind your own business and let parents and doctors that actually understand this stuff take care of kids that need life-saving treatment.
And while you’re at it maybe look up the study that was just done about how suicide rates in trans youth are 70% higher states deny health care to trans youth.
In other words educate yourself before having an opinion about something you know nothing about.
People like this are so ridiculous. They really don’t understand the concept of not being comfortable in your own body to the point that you don’t even want to live because your family and society in general disapprove of you being who you really are.
Which is ridiculous because I’m cis and it’s not hard for me at all to understand that being given gender-affirming care would be pretty fucking helpful for kids who feel that way.
Or rather either they don’t understand it or they don’t care because it’s “wrong.”
I’m not arguing with you. Your opinion is just wrong and irrelevant. Not understanding a medical treatment and wanting it banned because it makes you uncomfortable makes you a small minded, bad person. I hope you take the time to either reevaluate your life or go away.
How was this banned for rule 1 and the comment i was replying to not. I called the guy a lier cos he said he didnt want an argumwnt while callibg me a small minded bad person. Can someone please explain how this not unequal application of rules.
They weren’t lying. You’re spreading misinformation that’s killing children, which is bad. And continually refuse to engage with anything other than your preconceived opinions when literally everyone is disagreeing with you, which is small-minded.
Also, I’ll point out, you’re playing the victim here. While perpetuating rhetoric that’s literally killing children. A bit DARVO, imo. Definitely not good faith arguments. Can’t blame anyone for not wanting to engage with you.
No, a bad faith argument would be using one study and a handful of doctors that aren’t specialists in the area that agrees with you versus the hundreds of studies and thousands of doctors that specialize in the area that don’t.
As it stands im the only one who has provided any peer reviewed papers to back my point. Said study alsi happens to be a meta review so it reviews all the other papers and assesses them.
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Oh boy, I can tell you’re not here for a good faith argument. Puberty blockers are explicitly TO delay puberty until they can be sure. Nothing wrong with them
“But why can they consent to-”
Nah ah, already stated the difference
Yup, puberty blockers let trans youth prevent the onset of gender characteristics during puberty so that they can make an informed decision on what they want when they are an adult. It’s basically all upsides and, if the youth decides to go ahead with the puberty matching their birth sex it’s trivial to do so… but it keeps that door open so time doesn’t force a decision on them.
“I dont agree with you your argument must be bad faith” is one hell of a bad faith argument.
So you consider the side effects an acceptable risk?
And you think you know more than the kid’s doctor to predecide for millions of kids in your country?
It’s not our risk to accept. It’s between the person and their doctor.
Doctors that are specialized in that field should know that better than you or me, no?
But I’ll humor you anyway. You know what also has side effects? Going through puberty. And those side effects are permanent. If your puberty changes you in ways that don’t align with your gender identity, those side effects include higher risk of dying by suicide, as one example. So yeah, that seems like a risk that I, with my unqualified opinion, would be willing to take in order to make sure my child and their doctors have enough time to figure out who they are and what they need.
Im so glad you brought up that example because a review of the literature commissioned by the nhs found that the results where of low certainty and had no reduction in mental health gender dysphoria or psychosocial impact.
Im going to assume a review of all the peer reviewed literature should know better than docters with a financial incentive to continue providing said services.
Could you link that review, please?
https://segm.org/sites/default/files/20210323_Evidence%2Breview_GnRH%2Banalogues_For%2Bupload_Final_download.pdf
Yeah you didn’t read all that study and you don’t understand what blockers are for. Nobody is saying they are a cure for gender dysmorphia. It’s to prevent further development and facilitate better treatment later on.
What the study is saying is patients still need psychiatric support, not that blockers are useless.
And you sound like Tucker Carlson to me.
If you’re not a doctor or a parent of trans youth how about you mind your own business and stop being so weird.
Or do you not believe in small government?
Just asking questions here.
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The vast majority of doctors that specialize in gender care and endocrinology disagree with that small minority of doctors who aren’t specialists in this field.
It’s like asking a dentist for their opinion on brain surgery. They’re not qualified to have one.
I dont really care what the practising doctors say i care what the published peer reviewed docters say i they say its ineffective at achieving its goals of reduced harm.
The Cass report has been thoroughly debunked. This is the exact report I was referring to when I talked about Drs with agendas commenting on things they’re not experts on.
Here’s an article discussing the recent study that demonstrates how gender-affirming care bans are killing trans kids.
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/blog/anti-transgender-laws-cause-up-to-72-increase-in-suicide-attempts-among-transgender-and-nonbinary-youth-study-shows/
And several articles debunking the report you keep motioning towards.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-u-k-s-cass-review-badly-fails-trans-children/
https://www.advocate.com/health/hilary-cass-nhs-report-debunked
https://www.tgv.org.au/post/debunking-flawed-cass-review
Or if you prefer audio.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bonus-breaking-down-the-latest-anti-trans-victory-lap/id1535408667?i=1000660772408
And let’s get real here. You’re the same poster that believes hormones are cosmetic. So you don’t believe in science, biology, or medicine. Or are just blantantly transphobic and let whatever non-sense fall out of your mouth that you think will prove your point. Who’s really harming kids here? I hope you get banned, fr.
You think you’re more qualified than a doctor to assess whether a kid is capable of making bodily decisions? You can only speak for yourself.
I can read a peer reviewed journal and fron that provide an informed opinion.
You’re still nowhere near the expertise of doctors who go through nedical school for a decade or more and some even write papers for those peer reviewed journals. And some of their doctor peers review those papers before publishing journals.
Nobody is going to listen to you or some insurance company bean counter about medical advice over a qualified medical professional. They certainly should make it illegal for insurance companies to deny care contradicting doctors.
If there is anyone who knows anything it is the insurance companies. Thats their literal job to calculate the risks of something costly with heigh accuracy so they can put a price on it thus distributing a large single cost across many people as a small regular cost. If an insurance company doeant want to do somthing hiatory would tell us there is a damn good reason why.
At what point in your childhood were you so sure that you were not the gender that matches your biological sex that suicide was not an insignificant consideration due to the lack of support?
https://www.hcplive.com/view/suicide-risk-reduces-73-transgender-nonbinary-youths-gender-affirming-care
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Yes, you have already been shown by others why your meta-study, which predates the study the article I linked to discusses, is both faulty and doesn’t make the argument you think it makes.
You should be aware that when new information replaces old information in science, you should defer to the new information. You are doing the opposite.
Yet religious nutters cut baby penises and call it freedom 🤔
I dont support that either i find it extraordinarily offensive you are trying to apply a racist steriotype to me.
Say hi to Herzi for me
Yeah, also why can children consent to any medical treatment? Not dying of treatable conditions is altering their body, and that’s literally bad. I’m so smart and compassionate, I’m basically literally a doctor.
They cant their parents can tho. Puberty blockers are not a life saving treatment they are physical only and thus just like plastic surgery shouldnt be given to kids. And no u cant argue they will kill themselves if they dont get treated there is plenty of peer reviewed papers proving that to be false.
Hormones absolutely affect more than cosmetic things.
I started hormone replacement therapy 2 months ago. I spent four decades before that wanting to commit suicide.
I still mostly look like a man and my mental health has vastly improved. I’m less defensive less reactionary more open. I get a long better with everybody in my life.
Including myself.
Being congruent with your gender both chemically and socially helps people feel more joy happiness and self-acceptance.
That is not cosmetic and you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Like I said in an earlier comment you’re not a doctor. And you cite doctors that aren’t specialists in the field who have an agenda.
Seriously mind your own business and let parents and doctors that actually understand this stuff take care of kids that need life-saving treatment.
And while you’re at it maybe look up the study that was just done about how suicide rates in trans youth are 70% higher states deny health care to trans youth.
In other words educate yourself before having an opinion about something you know nothing about.
People like this are so ridiculous. They really don’t understand the concept of not being comfortable in your own body to the point that you don’t even want to live because your family and society in general disapprove of you being who you really are.
Which is ridiculous because I’m cis and it’s not hard for me at all to understand that being given gender-affirming care would be pretty fucking helpful for kids who feel that way.
Or rather either they don’t understand it or they don’t care because it’s “wrong.”
It’s transphobic garbage.
Hormones are cosmetic, was their comment. This person does not believe in medicine, biology, or science. Only their transphobic garbage.
When are mods going to start banning people for this stuff? It seriously kills kids. It’s like COVID misinformation.
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Now thats a bad faith argument. I usually get banned for calling people an idiot or is that only cos my opinions are controversial?
I’m not arguing with you. Your opinion is just wrong and irrelevant. Not understanding a medical treatment and wanting it banned because it makes you uncomfortable makes you a small minded, bad person. I hope you take the time to either reevaluate your life or go away.
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How was this banned for rule 1 and the comment i was replying to not. I called the guy a lier cos he said he didnt want an argumwnt while callibg me a small minded bad person. Can someone please explain how this not unequal application of rules.
They weren’t lying. You’re spreading misinformation that’s killing children, which is bad. And continually refuse to engage with anything other than your preconceived opinions when literally everyone is disagreeing with you, which is small-minded.
Also, I’ll point out, you’re playing the victim here. While perpetuating rhetoric that’s literally killing children. A bit DARVO, imo. Definitely not good faith arguments. Can’t blame anyone for not wanting to engage with you.
No, a bad faith argument would be using one study and a handful of doctors that aren’t specialists in the area that agrees with you versus the hundreds of studies and thousands of doctors that specialize in the area that don’t.
His paper doesn’t even say what he wants it to say. It’s a super narrow finding that psychological care is still required along with blockers.
As it stands im the only one who has provided any peer reviewed papers to back my point. Said study alsi happens to be a meta review so it reviews all the other papers and assesses them.
Also, no, it looked at 9 specific studies, not “all” studies. It’s conclusions are basically “We need more studies.”
I looked at your study, but all it showed was that there were no statistically significant side effects for puberty blockers, so what’s the problem?
You think minors are getting top and bottom surgery all the time, don’t you?
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