The sound of many of them exploding
So, what Israel is admitting here, is that they could individually pinpoint and target Hamas but instead carpet bombed Palestine into genocide.
supply chain attacks are dirty tactics too, they have no idea who is holding 3000 pagers when detonation.
For smartphones they actually could, they could tie the lipo pack serial number to the imei and work everything out from there.
Then make sure it’s been unlocked via biometrics within a second or so.
It’s very rare that someone else holds a phone to be unlocked for you, though it does happen, still the closest to a targeted kill.
You would have to guarantee those phones would eventually end up in the right person’s hands.
Otherwise if you sabotage 100 phones and only 30 go to your targets, even if you only detonate those 30 there are now 70 phones out there randomly floating around with enough explosives to kill some random person.
Yeah, and this is assuming that even the ones with your target isn’t hidden in a box under his kid’s bed when it goes off.
I use a code to unlock. Biometrics can be unlocked while unconscious or restrained. Fuck that.
Removed by mod
since English isn’t something you’re comfortable reading
I’m having a hard time figuring out what they said that merited this level of hostility. They weren’t even arguing with you!?
They’re just another incoherent zio cultist.
That’s great, dehumanize people so you can shirk your ethics and treat them as lesser.
Where have I seen this move before 🤔🤔🤔🤔
You act like such a Zionist, it’s hilarious to watch you speak yourself into a corner.
They were using pagers and walkie talkies to evade the cellphone tracking that the Israelis were already doing.
They wouldn’t have taken the cell phones.
But this only works if you know the identity of every member of the organization, which is impossible, again making this a terror campaign and not a targeted attack. And you have to detonate them all at once or people will throw away the devices. You can’t wait for the 100,00 people who belong to the organization to have just unlocked their devices all at once.
No, but you can mark which pager numbers are in combatant possession and which ones are with civvies.
Wtf? You’re killing everybody, you’re killing the most influential leaders you know about.
This was stupid, and will make Israel’s life harder but Bibi is too narcissistic to accept that.
This is also Mossad trying to wipe off O7 attacks by showering in blood, which is just stupid.
Nothing about this makes sense as an adult.
I’m not sire what you’re replying to. My comment was that using smart phones wouldn’t be effective in the way you mentioned. Relying on people 100,000 people that belong to Hezbollah to unlock their phones all at the same time to verify that’s who is holding the device. There is no possible way to make an attack like this targeted. It would always result in a large percentage of innocent casualties no matter what you do. The only use for it is a terrorist attack, which is what this was.
They literally knew about the attack before it happened. Genocide was always the primary goal.
Israel is obviously behind the attacks but has not taken responsibility for them yet. So no, they’re not admitting anything.
They are openly showing that they can do whatever they want.
All the rest is gaslighting so that you’d not be completely sure that that’s what they are saying, thus not so confident in yourself. Another kind of attacking other’s morale.
They are openly showing that they can do whatever they want.
Yes. And what zionists want to do is terrorism, genocide, etc.
Oh, not just the zionists… that entire zone is rife with religious violence.
The real problem is religion 🤷
Is it? There are plenty of Jews and plenty of Muslims who are not involved in this and see it as wrong. Plus, that’s such a broad statement as to be meaningless. We could equally say government is the problem, but there aren’t many advocating for anarchy. Or people are the problem. I’d be more inclined to say tribalism is the problem, the very foundation of an “us” vs. “them” mentality. Sometimes assholes pick a fight and call it religious. There’s a strong case to be made that war has become much more brutal and far reaching since the Napoleonic wars and the rise of the nation-state. I mean, we can blame religion … that certainly erases the need to look within ourselves and ask why humans do this to each other.
It’s a bit like pretending Nazism was a German problem and pretending like the same dark forces don’t exist now and in many people everywhere.
There are definitely some religious dickheads, but there are dickheads of all stripes.
If religion is so vile, how do we hold in tension the fact that religious people are often behind the most charity towards the marginalised and disempowered? Atheists talk a good game, but rarely leave their armchairs to do anything positive. Religion can become a tribal marker, but it also is one of the main forces working against tribalism.
This is the key thing here. People can whine about this attack, but this was targeted and it worked with low collateral damage, which also makes it legal (as in not a war crime).
The problem is everything else that Israel is doing since Oct 7, causing 1/3 of the Palestinian casualties to be children.
The very nature of a supply chain sabotage like this is indiscriminate.
Customary international humanitarian lawprohibits the use of booby traps – objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use – precisely to avoid putting civilians at grave risk and produce the devastating scenes that continue to unfold across Lebanon today. The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate, using a means of attack that could not be directed at a specific military target and as a result would strike military targets and civilians without distinction.
It’s low collateral damage the same way a suicide bomber is. So, I guess, your IDF-brained take is suicide bombers are low casualty and precise.
It’s a low collateral attack when you see civilians as enemies and want literally all of them dead.
If this was the other way around, we’d have global outrage, days of mourning and piles of new weapons for Israel right now. We’d be speaking about one of the worst terrorist attacks in history.
Bingo.
This was a stupid decision by Israel. They have given the green light to mass attacks through consumer products. Can they really afford to protect all their imported products (electronics, food, water, etc) from every type of attack?
They don’t have to, the supply chain is friendlier to them than to Lebanese.
The supply chain goes from the source to the consumer. It doesn’t have to be and elaborate and expensive operation to have an effect. Several unrelated individuals poke 1 or 2 tiny holes into some fruits and vegetables during their weekly grocery shopping. Once people start to notice there will be panic about food security. Most people won’t care but enough will that it will cost grocery stores money in unsellable products and increased vigilance. Prices go up. If you can’t trust your fellow human to not sneeze at the buffet table, how are you going to trust your neighbour/worker who lost x relatives to not tamper with your ice cream in the unlocked fridge at the store.
Drones randomly dropping anthrax are simpler.
Where would they get the anthrax and a drone capable of spreading it without hurting the user. My example cost nothing, anyone can do it and the it’s almost impossible to get caught.
Actually incredibly easy to catch someone doing it in a first world country.
Mass surveillence is already here. By the third case of such death the police would already be pulling CCTV tapes.
Someone has a pin or thumb tack held between there fingers. They touch 10 green apples but only pierce 3. How are you going to determine this person did that from the hundreds of customers who were at that spot during one day? How many hours of videos are being kept? How many cameras do you need? How much will this cost? What if this was done at the farm? Or truck or distribution center?
There is no intelligence behind genocide.
Oh look, terrorism.
No , see when THEY do it, it is terrorism; when WE do it ……….
This flippant accusation misses the grander issue.
If Israel is capable of precisely targeting enemy military like this, then why are there 35k dead in Gaza?
It’s a good point
But the accusation isn’t flippant. That’s exactly what this is.
If the beepers and radios were targeted at Hezbollah militia members, then it isn’t terrorism.
If the equipment was sold in regular retail channels meant for the general Lebanese population, then it is terrorism.
We don’t know enough to make that call 100%, but early analysis is strongly suggesting it was targeted.
To call it terrorism at this point is flippant and unsupported, and draws attention away from and fails to highlight their larger crime of genocide.
It is absolutely terrorism. When the pagers went off most of the people hit by them were in plain clothes, including a child, people were just seeing other randomly exploding and are adding strain to hospitals. This is a terrorist attack.
Yes, and when we bombed Germany in WW2 we killed hundreds of children. War is bad. Terrorism is bad. But they are different things.
Genocide =/= war. Stop trying to justify genocidal terrorism on the basis of some imaginary “war”.
There is a difference between the actions in Gaza and the actions in Lebanon.
It is absolutely terrorism
Too early to tell, but likely not
most of the people hit by them were in plain clothes
oh good, if i find myself an active combatant in a war-zone i should just chuck on a t-shirt.
including a child
Regrettable but civilian casualties in a war-zone are inevitable
people were just seeing other (presumably you meant to put “people” here) randomly exploding
they weren’t randoms, at the moment it seems they were Hezbollah
and are adding strain to hospitals
That’ll happen when a large number of combatants are taken out at once
I think the point was that, for the people around, this was undistinguishable from suicide bombers, which are usually considered as terrorists. Terrorism is meant to inspire terror and insecurity. This did exactly that.
Human Rights Watch called it unlawful:
Customary international humanitarian lawprohibits the use of booby traps – objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use – precisely to avoid putting civilians at grave risk and produce the devastating scenes that continue to unfold across Lebanon today. The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate, using a means of attack that could not be directed at a specific military target and as a result would strike military targets and civilians without distinction.
There is no “war-zone”. There are no “combatants”.
There’s just genocidal terrorists murdering civilians in several different states.
Hezbollah have been firing rockets into israel for months, it absolutely is a warzone
Is it precise? From the pager terror attacks only 9 or killed, maybe 2 of them “fighters”, at least 1 child, 2700+ wounded including medical staff and other innocent people. That’s not exactly precise in my books.
I mean you are fundamentally making an argument against war. Which I agree with. When waging war someone innocent is always going to get caught in the crossfire, which is one of the many reasons war is bad.
But to call all acts of war terrorism, and all terrorism an act of war, is to pretend words don’t have meanings.
No, I’m not calling all acts of war terrorism, or all terrorism acts of war. For example, Ukranian artillery striking Russian troops in a trench most certainly an act of war, and not terrorism. Detonation explosives attached to people who aren’t aware, who are potentially innocent, potentially in crowded locations, in hospitals, or schools, isn’t an act of war, and is text book terrorism.
Genocide =/= war.
Five years ago, if you had asked me if Israel would be committing terrorist attacks across Palestine, Lebanon and beyond, I would have said absolutely not.
I would have been wrong, even back then, but jesus fucking christ, what an absolute shambles.
How my government supports this state-sponsored terrorism is beyond me.
Zios have been using terrorism for 75+ years with full imperial support.
Call it for what it is, a terrorist attack.
The media condemned political violence against Trump in unison one month ago.
Israel commits one of the biggest terrorist attacks against a Lebanese political organization in history and the media claps.
My concern twofold
A: Without evidence I have a hard time seeing planting bombs in devices was solely targeted at fighters. Odds are an entire shipment was targeted and many people who weren’t Hezbollah received bombs
B: Blowing up devices that were by definition carried everywhere certainly killed families and associates who didn’t deserve to die.
During the Iraqi war we considered Iraqi leadership targets and I wouldn’t have been surprised if they considered our leadership targets as well. If they had in fact only killed Hezbollah I would have no problem with the attack.
In Iraq every Iraqi civilian was considered a valid target.
The definition of “enemy combatant” was “anyone within the blast radius of a US strike”. I kid you not.
They were probably mostly in the hands of Hezbollah members, if not fighters. This is probably why they went off in hospitals as well. Lots of medics who volunteer who’s normal job is being a doctor in a Beirut hospital. Lots of logistics and people hiding weapons in the back of buildings for them.
They’re not full time militants if I understand correctly. Most of these people will have civilian lives and jobs to go to.
Certainly some innocent family members died. There’s no such thing as a completely surgical strike. It is better than what they’ve been doing in Gaza though, by several orders of magnitude. I don’t think anybody can defend what’s been going on there with a straight face.
Maybe so but commit a little genocide here and there and suddenly nobody wants to give you the benefit of the doubt.
And they whined about a fucking bus exploding.
About some pipe rockets killing a random bloke or two.
And this
against a Lebanese political organization
appears to be wrong since their attack wasn’t at all this targeted. It’s a mass terror campaign against whole Lebanese population in order to saturate its attention and reduce morale before an invasion.
We all got complacent relying on big nations with big militaries for punishing such behavior, and they are all in bed with the criminal.
Despite this not being Hezbollah’s best moment, I think they and similar guerrillas are the exact kind of people we should learn from for solutions to Israel and the rest of the problem.
Lotta Hezbollah flags in that crowd, was that some kind of funeral procession from yesterday’s pagers?
Yes, a funeral procession for 4 members.
Exponential funeral growth.
If your state was under attack by genocidal terrorists, wouldn’t you support the resistance?
This is a super-villain plan becoming a reality.
If this carries on, we’ll have exploding semaphore flags by the end of the week.
Don’t mess with Americas boats
Shit, we use the same radios at work. Hope no-one blew up.
I saw this on Reddit first while I was checking my city subreddit, damn the headline there definitely gives a different impression.
(The comments are all mostly jokes, didn’t even bother wading through them and came to see If Lemmy had a thread instead).
R/worldnews? It’s completely run by zionists. Anything critical or Israel or pro Palestinian gets instantly nuked
At this point, r/worldnews comments are so thoroughly astroturfed by so many global powers, their only use is to get an idea of what various propaganda machines think.
So if I understand correctly, Israel managed to get a bunch of people in Hezbollah to use pagers and walkie talkies that contained bombs. But they have not been able to gather enough intelligence from control of those communication devices to find and rescue the remaining hostages? And if they weren’t able to catch useful information from those devices, why did the people holding those devices deserve to get blown up?
Hezbollah operates out of Lebanon, and the hostages are in Gaza? They have nothing to do with each other…
Thanks. I honestly haven’t been following it all closely. (I guess that’s obvious from my last comment). But why blow up a bunch of people in Lebanon?
This might help to clarify.
Because tensions between Hezbollah and Israel have been steadily rising since October 7th because of Hzebollah’s objection to how Israel is acting in Gaza. To be clear, prior to October 7th, tensions were already high enough that they would regularly lob bombs at each other. Today’s “escalated” tensions include northern Israel being evacuated due to threats from Hezbolla’s rocket attacks.
At this point, it is clear that the options available to Israel are to either withdraw from Gaza and hope Hezbolla stands down, or end up in a full war with Hezbolla. Historians will say that the war with Hezbolla started months ago, and this was just one attack among many.
You are forgetting one simple fact. They don’t care about the hostages.
Oh, they definitely do, in their own way.
The hostages are in Gaza, not Lebanon. If Israel had this level of infiltration with Hamas, it is unlikely this would’ve started in the first place
If only the nazis had infiltrated the warsaw ghetto… \s \s \s
So if I understand correctly, Israel managed to get a bunch of people in Hezbollah to use pagers and walkie talkies that contained bombs.
Think about it like, there’s one person who was able to tell the perpetrators of this that a big order of communication devices is being made.
Perpetrators are clearly sophisticated so it’s fair to assume they can throw some skilled team at it.
This attack could be years in the making.
From a spy craft and capabilities standpoint it’s an amazing attack. I’m skeptical that using the devices as bombs is more useful than using them for spying, but who knows? It is super fucked up that random people who happen to be near the targets could be hurt. But between that and the stuxnet attack, it’s safe to say that Israel is capable of crazy sophisticated attacks.
Except they barely knew what they were doing with stuxnet too.
I heard 5 months, forgot where from.
Someone tell them the Palm Pilots aren’t safe either
Samsung Galaxy note 7
Might have to break out my Newton as a precautionary measure.
Whatever you do, don’t use the stylus! /s
Booby-trapped walkie-talkies and pagers.
This reminds me of when during sieges during the Middle Ages they used to lob the bodies of the dead back inside the castle. I’m not sure if it’s because of the lines they’ve crossed over and ignored regarding civilian casualties on this, or that this will essentially cause other parties to cross those same lines. This is giving ideas to China and Russia, and humanity has been far shittier in the past, I really don’t want to see how bad we will regress to.
