So a tricky thing with LGBT words is they seem to vary around specificity.
Like people can say gay to mean gay men, gay people, or any kind of queer.
Similarly transgender can mean a gender identity not matching your biological sex, which includes genderfluid; or it can mean specifically a binary trans man/woman.
These aren’t different valid opinions about the label. They are literally just different definitions for the words that depend on context. The words mean all of those things but usually only one in each context.
Transgender and genderfluid identities are different.
Hold up. No, that’s not correct. I am trans myself, and while I’m assuming it’s not your intent to do so but this is walking in to some toxic gatekeeping that is common in some communities. Not tying to call you out, but respectfully and politely, it’s a pretty big party foul to say a group is or isn’t trans.
“Trans” is an umbrella term in which transgender, transexual, non-binary, generfluid, demi boy/girl and Intersex people all fit under. None of these things are mutually exclusive. And conversely, it’s not a requirement either. Many intersex, fluid and non-binary people do not consider themselves trans, and that is 100% their right, but many do as well.
I’d prefer to let the nonbinary and gender non-conforming folks speak for themselves, and a majority of them do not consider themselves trans. I understand your concerns about potential transmed arguments that could be derived from this, but it’s a part of nb erasure that must be combated
and a majority of them do not consider themselves trans
And in my experience it’s the opposite. But either way we are going in to anecdotal territory which isn’t helpful. What’s important that we agree on is that non binary folk absolutely have the right to decide for themselves either way.
Concerns about erasure is valid, but the language matters as not to be exclusionary. There is value in saying NB, intersex and fluid are distinct identities, but not in saying they are mutually exclusive from or inherently “not trans”.
i mean, i doubt many genderfluid people were assigned genderfluid at birth, so they aren’t really cis. whether or not individual genderfluid people choose to identify as transgender is their thing, but i think genderfluid broadly fits under the transgender umbrella. or are you saying genderfluid people are cis?
What the fuck kind of logic is that? Do you think that people are only capable of being cis or trans? There are several gender non-conforming identities, that does not make them trans.
I literally said the term. They are gender non-conforming. Don’t impose your beliefs on people that don’t want to be identified the way you think they should.
yea my point is that nonbinary is a subcategory of trans. at least in my eyes. im not sure how else someone would categorize it, but if anyone has other ideas id love to hear them.
The prefix trans- means to go to the other side. If you aren’t going to the opposite side, you aren’t trans. There are many other identities that don’t totally move to the opposite side, or even subvert the binary entirely.
Wouldn’t they be genderfluid, not trans?
You’re right, my bad
that’s still transgender
No it’s not. Transgender and genderfluid identities are different.
So a tricky thing with LGBT words is they seem to vary around specificity.
Like people can say gay to mean gay men, gay people, or any kind of queer.
Similarly transgender can mean a gender identity not matching your biological sex, which includes genderfluid; or it can mean specifically a binary trans man/woman.
These aren’t different valid opinions about the label. They are literally just different definitions for the words that depend on context. The words mean all of those things but usually only one in each context.
Hold up. No, that’s not correct. I am trans myself, and while I’m assuming it’s not your intent to do so but this is walking in to some toxic gatekeeping that is common in some communities. Not tying to call you out, but respectfully and politely, it’s a pretty big party foul to say a group is or isn’t trans.
“Trans” is an umbrella term in which transgender, transexual, non-binary, generfluid, demi boy/girl and Intersex people all fit under. None of these things are mutually exclusive. And conversely, it’s not a requirement either. Many intersex, fluid and non-binary people do not consider themselves trans, and that is 100% their right, but many do as well.
It’s entirely an individuals choice, and saying X isn’t “trans” only leads to exclusion and intercommunity bigotry.
I’d prefer to let the nonbinary and gender non-conforming folks speak for themselves, and a majority of them do not consider themselves trans. I understand your concerns about potential transmed arguments that could be derived from this, but it’s a part of nb erasure that must be combated
And in my experience it’s the opposite. But either way we are going in to anecdotal territory which isn’t helpful. What’s important that we agree on is that non binary folk absolutely have the right to decide for themselves either way.
Concerns about erasure is valid, but the language matters as not to be exclusionary. There is value in saying NB, intersex and fluid are distinct identities, but not in saying they are mutually exclusive from or inherently “not trans”.
i mean, i doubt many genderfluid people were assigned genderfluid at birth, so they aren’t really cis. whether or not individual genderfluid people choose to identify as transgender is their thing, but i think genderfluid broadly fits under the transgender umbrella. or are you saying genderfluid people are cis?
What the fuck kind of logic is that? Do you think that people are only capable of being cis or trans? There are several gender non-conforming identities, that does not make them trans.
i mean, what other categories are there besides cis and trans? either you identify as the gender you were assigned at birth or you dont.
I literally said the term. They are gender non-conforming. Don’t impose your beliefs on people that don’t want to be identified the way you think they should.
How does being gender non-conforming exclude being cis or trans?
im not forcing anyone to identify as transgender.
Something something non-binary
yea my point is that nonbinary is a subcategory of trans. at least in my eyes. im not sure how else someone would categorize it, but if anyone has other ideas id love to hear them.
Nonbinary is nonbinary. There’s certainly a lot of overlap between nonbinary people and trans people, but they aren’t the same.
The prefix trans- means to go to the other side. If you aren’t going to the opposite side, you aren’t trans. There are many other identities that don’t totally move to the opposite side, or even subvert the binary entirely.
Fair enough