• Sheltac@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Interesting, I always thought it had to do with Android’s ungodly software stack which at some point involves, of all things, fucking java.

    • fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Android doesn’t use Java at a byte-code level and never has, as far as I can tell. Source code was written in Java since mobile developers were so used to it but Android never ran the JVM, they do their own thing with Java source.

      You can dislike Java syntax but the software stack on Android wasn’t Java’s.

      • Sheltac@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Wait, thats is very different from what I read back in the day. I know there was a point at, I dunno, android 5 where they started doing something different with java, but my impression was that android always ran a JVM of sorts. And frankly, given how it performs even on the highest-end devices, that was really easy to believe.

        I guess I need to do some research now.

        • bluefirex@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          No you’re correct. Android does run a JVM, just not Oracle’s. That has always been the case. Back in the day it was Dalvik, nowadays it’s ART.

        • fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Pretty sure it was Dalvik virtual machine that Java was compiled to byte code for before 4.4 when they deprecated Dalvik for Android Runtime (ART), fully dropping Dalvik in 5.

          • saua@troet.cafe
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            1 year ago

            @fartsparkles @Sheltac Android always ran dalvik bytecode and never Java bytecode
            The change to Art was just a replacement of the “VM”, but didn’t change what byte code was run. It’s similar to how Hotspot improved the Java VM while also not fundamentally changing that it’s running Java bytecode.

      • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        1 year ago

        Dalvik/ART is essentially the same idea. It uses dalvik byte code, much in the same way the JVM operates.

        There’s some complexity (it’s designed to do different things, and the whole Oracle lawsuits added some wrinkles) but it’s not so different as you imply.

      • K0bin@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        They compile Java Bytecode to Dalvik Bytecode and run that on the Android Runtime which is a tiered JIT compiler.

        It still inherits the issues of Java such as the GC, no stack allocated value types, poor cache locality, etc. Although tbf the GC on Android is pretty fucking good these days and doesn’t pause the world anymore.

    • Aux@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Java is only used for software development, there’s nothing Java during run time.

          • huginn@feddit.it
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            1 year ago

            ART is the equivalent of a JVM. It doesn’t implement all the apis, the compiled bytecode differs, it’s optimized for mobile but that doesn’t make it not a JVM.

            That’s why the NDK exists: so you can build and run C++ code natively.

            • Aux@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Python VM is Java by your logic. If you don’t understand IT, you shouldn’t really talk on IT topics.

              • huginn@feddit.it
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                1 year ago

                I can use the exact same apache jars on my Android project and my Java server.

                That’s not Python. That’s very clearly java code.

                The implementation of the contract is different but that’s not the same as not being Java.

                  • huginn@feddit.it
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                    1 year ago

                    You absolutely can pull the same jars into server and android projects.

                    Sometimes you need a different one for Android to avoid NoClassDefFoundErrors but you’re totally able to grab a jar and stick it directly into both sides.

        • Aux@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          It IS true! See the above indeed. In short - there’s no Java anything during runtime and never was.

            • Aux@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I don’t define anything, there are Java standards which define source code, binary code and runtime behaviour compatibility. That makes it possible to run Java apps on non-Oracle JVMs, use non-Oracle tools, etc. Android doesn’t have anything Java outside of source code. And even Java source code is not 100% compatible. It’s just not Java at all and never was. You can’t even use many open source Java libraries on Android because they are not Android compatible at the source level.