This isn’t true of anyone I’ve ever known, and i believe it isn’t true for the majority of Americans. I believe it’s a loudly vocal minority who get angry at people speaking other languages or barely speaking English
Yes, but this is the Fediverse, so Americabad
This is truer than you might expect. Just not as blatant as the meme. Especially in a work context, people will underestimate someone’s abilities, be inpatient with clarifications or simply favour others for tasks.
It’s unconcious with some people, they don’t even know they’re doing it.
I am a first language English speaker, but my partner isn’t and it’s really opened my eyes to how much we underestimate the language difficulties immigrants can have.
Not to say everyone is struggling, but just that I think English speakers do take language skills for granted. And unconsciously are biased towards people based on their preserved language skills.
Even once you’re fluent, like my partner well and truly is, it’s still hard.
Dear sir/madam, this is a meme.
Exaggeration for comedic effect is not a crime.
lmfao evidently a meme that makes people very angry. 15+ downvotes. fuckin americans man. you guys truly fucking hate each other. good job! great culture, just the best stuff… totally worth fighting for, and definitely worth inflicting on the rest of the world, buncha bitches
I don’t understand your comment. What is the fighting happening here that you’re mocking?
“inflicting” Let’s not pretend your entire life isn’t wrapped up in American merchandise, food, and media. And no one forced it on you
I mean I’m American and never antagonize anyone for bad English. If anything I have more respect they try and I’m just glad I learnt this mutt of a language natively cause it’s inconsistent as fuck. I also get the other side from the 6 other languages I am learning so I appreciate anyone that yes ands vs acts like a jerk. But yeah meme funni just get a new joke is all I gotta say.
“Merica bad”
Lol ok kiddo
I disagree with this and its my experience that there are assholes speaking every language and that the English speaking world tends to be the most understanding when it comes to second language speakers using improper words and/or grammar.
Personally, and anecdotally, I’ve found English speakers to be quite forgiving of poor English — that is, they usually make an effort to try and understand someone with broken English, and they don’t usually point out poor grammar (though, that could be because the majority of English speakers don’t have the best grammar to begin with 😉). Especially when one compares them with some other cultures, eg the French.
You haven’t tried speaking bad English in a new York shop apparently.
Oh that’s just New Yorkers in general really
Well, ok. But they’re still technically American.
That is true
Haha yes! That’s it right there. Most Americans don’t seem to have a master of this language.
“Grammar Nazi’s”, as we call them, have very few friends. I haven’t encountered a single one in years.
It’s pretty hard to learn another language as an American unless you’re able to travel to a place where that is used. I wasn’t even allowed to take a foreign language class when I was in high school because I scored too poorly on English in grade school (from not doing homework, not because of aptitude). I haven’t really had a need for it in my adult life either other than like 3 times where I had Spanish speaking customers when I worked at in retail and we still managed to overcome the language barrier.
I don’t get the downvotes here. Learning a language is not easy without immersion. Yes you can bang through literature and even multiple courses… but without frequent use our brains simply lose the connection. Neurons that fire together wire together. This goes doubly for speech.
Many Americans (most?) are taught a second language in school but the lack of places to use it sees this education go to waste. The US is a large country with pockets of ethnic groups throughout - but as far as immersion with another language goes… it is sorely lacking.
It’s unfortunate but a reality.
It’s a lot about motivation. I’m sure many people have tried to learn a language, maybe on Duolingo or somewhere else. But as the initial excitement wears off, they give up. And that’s normal, that’s how most of us are built. You can’t beat brain chemistry with sweet arguments that “it’s good to know another language.” There needs to be a strong incentive from the outside, like school when the second language is mandatory, or life in another country with no access to a community that speaks your language. With the internet, that’s nearly impossible nowadays. There are a lot of expats who never assimilate in countries like Germany because in places like Berlin English will do. So I totally understand people from the US, who have limited access to other languages and cultures, plus whenever they go people speak English.
The internet argument goes both ways however: you can never leave your house and be able to interact with people from virtually anywhere, as well as consume content in any language.
I don’t think it does. Yes, you can use it both ways. However, my point was that if there’s no strong outside motivation pushing you towards learning the language, it’s challenging to force yourself to do so. Furthermore, one must reach the level where they can interact with native speakers first. At the beginning, your vocabulary is limited, you don’t know grammar rules, slang is not typically available in a dictionary. The initial desire to learn a language often wanes before reaching that level, as it’s difficult for most people due to our brains’ focus on short-term survival and benefits.
I live in a post-Soviet country with a large Russian-speaking community. Most Russians I know who eventually learned the official language of my country did so under specific circumstances: they attended a kindergarten without Russian children, were enlisted in the army, found employment where they couldn’t use Russian or English, etc. Conversely, those who do not speak the official language typically never faced a pressing need to do so. The notion of “it would be good to learn X” is usually insufficient to motivate us to work hard for years to become proficient in another language.
Of course, there are exceptions, but they do not represent the norm.
Too add on
I took a Spanish class in high school
My dad knows some Spanish so he helped me practice but I passed with a good grade. I could not tell you one thing in Spanish. It was hard but kind of fun
Hopefully my several thoughts and word vomit make sense
Yep. That is the moment where, if you could say bike to Spain or Mexico (or a town that spoke it with some frequency,) you could make that knowledge more permanent. A lot of people have nowhere to use it and that knowledge gathers rust over time.
without frequent use our brains simply lose the connection
I just want to say that I’ve been learning an Asian language for over a decade and have retained almost all of it from infrequent immersion. I don’t know how or why, but it sticks!
What I’m trying to say is that you shouldn’t feel discouraged because you think it’s meaningless if you’re not jumping in with both feet every day. Rather, you’re still making some progress even when dipping your toes in occasionally. Trust the process!
Yeah… this is incredibly dated.
I went to high school 20 years ago and it was mandatory to take at least 2 years of another language. My school was extra so they have 4 years available of Spanish/French/German/Japanese/Mandarin. That wasn’t case at every school in our district but they all had Spanish and French.
This was public school.
Yea, I’m older than you then. It wasn’t required when I was in school just strongly suggested (unless they won’t let you like was my case). That said, how many people that learn just those 2 years in high school retain it in adulthood or use it regularly? It’s something that you have to work at and there’s really not much value in that for most of us.
Any of the big languages should have a multitude of free online courses available and places to talk to native speakers. These days anyone who wants to learn a second language has the means to do it. It’s difficult, but it’s accessible.
It’s pretty hard to learn another language as an American unless you’re able to travel to a place where that is used
you can always learn Spanish… with over 10% of the population in America already speaking it, it should not be hard to find someone to practice or some content catered to them to practice with
That 10% is mostly clustered in the South or southwest. In my social circle I know one person that’s fluent and one who knows enough to get by and I didn’t meet them until my late 20s. I’ve run across other people here and there but it’s not really common where I live. It’s simply more effort than it’s worth at this point I wouldn’t really gain anything by being bilingual.
I did it in school in rural Ohio before the internet and with very few resources available. Basically anyone can do it. You don’t need immersion. Is it helpful? Yes. Is it necessary? No. Look at how many people live 40+ years in a country and never learn the language; immersion alone does almost nothing.
How do you know you’re pronouncing things correctly without native speakers to converse with?
I think there’s a big myth which I prescribed to back when I was a monolingual English speaker that somehow being “immersed” in a culture is how you become fluent. But my experience has always been that if you can’t understand what anyone’s saying, and are unable to say anything yourself, you just become mute and introverted.
I have no experience with Japanese, but the (in?)famous youtuber MattVsJapan detailed a time when he went to Japan without a base of knowledge and just went back home after every day to watch anime at home, then only really learned how to speak Japanese back in America afterwards. I had a similar experience in Germany — the first few years the only people I really spoke with were other expats and Germans in English.
The only real thing I think being immersed gives you is motivation to learn. But after you’re able to order in a restaurant and read basic signs, that motivation disappears pretty fast as you’re sort of about to just fumble through everything.
On the other hand, people speaking English has seemingly increased massively worldwide, despite the fact that in some countries it would be rare to even encounter an English speaking native. Notably, imo, the countries that are better at it tend to subtitle movies and TV rather than dub. Compare the Nordic countries with Germans, the Greeks vs the French, Koreans vs the Japanese.
It seems pretty clear to me (and I am by no means alone with this assertion) that the main way people learn is through exposure to the language, which is completely different than actually living in a place where you’re “immersed”.
So if you really wanted to learn a language, the best thing you could do is as soon as you’re able to (before, even) watch TV/films and read books in that target language. I think this book is an excellent explanation https://www.tesl-ej.org/books/lomb-2nd-Ed.pdf for German, I started really learning it only after listening to Deutsche Welle learning German radio shows and TV. The modern equivalent is this online TV show for beginners https://learngerman.dw.com/en/hallo/l-37250531 which is great. I learned more in a few episodes like this than I did with two years of formal teaching at school.
Sorry for sort of hijacking your comment, it just caused me to fall down a rabbit hole somewhat :)
Nice question :) A good textbook should go over the sounds in the language comparing them to something in the target audience’s language. This isn’t foolproof (a language YouTuber (Language Jones, I think?) was talking about trying to learn an African language, but the author expected reader to speak South African English where vowels differ from, for instance, US English), but it generally works pretty well. These days, wikipedia is also typically a great resource for reading about sounds in the language. Further, nowadays, you can toss stuff in Google Translate and have it speak. Finally, consume media from that country. When I was learning German, DeutscheWelle had a German-learning mp3 series. Also streaming radio in those days (no Youtube or anything yet).
Edit: and for output, the time-tested technique of shadowing is great. Record yourself if you can because your ears might do better picking up any mistakes when not speaking at the same time.
I find it funny that we both answered the same question and independently mentioned how Deutsche Welle’s
Deutsch: Warum nicht?taught us both German :)I don’t remember exactly which resource it was anymore. I did also use a lot of Deutschlernen mit Nachtrichten
This feels like French propaganda to deflect from how rude they tend to be if you don’t speak French
I speak French until they have enough of me butchering their language with my Jersey (New) accent. Bon Joor, je voo le pan. They beg me to stop and I keep going. Jaim vo d-nay. Mare C bo coo. They thank me for leaving.
Ever heard japanese filtered through a southern accent? Oh HAI yo guh ZAI muss!
This was our favorite thing to do in my HS Japanese class. I still remember “skydiving”: skah-daaaah-ben-goo.
Even if you speak French or at least try to they go like: huh?!
Lean into it. Channel your inner Peggy Hill and repeat this phrase: Jay parlay fran-says tray bee-in. Jay-tude on lay-cole quart ons.
They will beg you to switch back to English
I will continue to maintain a laissez faire attitude towards French language.
I’m an American who speaks decent German. I’ve gotten this flak traveling in non-German speaking Europe - Stupid American only speaking English attitude thrown my way. Mother fucker I’m in France, a German would also be using English here. To some people the only way to not be “that American” is to speak all the languages.
On the flip side, I’ve had a few Germans ask me why I bothered learning their language when I could just use English.
Moin Brudi, finde ich ziemlich nett von dir das du dir unsere Sprache antust.
Ah cool, danke! Immer nett zu hören, dass jemand meine Versuche schätzt.
I’ve had a few Germans ask me why I bothered learning their language when I could just use English.
So, why? You can’t leave us hanging like this!
Haha I’ve lived there for almost a year between two stints and had a lot of free time for one of them so seemed like a fun thing to learn.
It very occasionally has been helpful traveling in more rural Germany speaking areas
I took German in high school (in the US) and I was really disappointed to learn that most people in Germany know English.
I have used some German on the odd airport layover but it was never terribly useful even then. It made me sad
To be fair, 95% of people on that continent speak one or more of three languages. And those three languages (English, Spanish, French) are among the most widely spoken languages in the world.
This is nonsense. Only English teachers do this.
In my experience Americans find it cool when they hear another language, Anglo-Canadians though, they don’t realize how racist they are towards French-Canadians and hate their language with a passion.
French-Canadians, on the other hand, fully realize how racist they are towards Anglo-Canadians and hate their language with a passion.
They do that by bending backwards and talking English whenever there’s an Anglophone present no matter if they’re the only one in a group of ten that doesn’t speak French fluently 👍
They do that by having the biggest college and university in Quebec be English ones (the latter being the third richest in Canada) 👍
They do that by being more bilingual 👍
They do that by never having prevented them from learning their language in school contrary to what happened to French Canadians outside Quebec 👍
Fucking French Canadians and their hate for the english language! Truly they’re bigots all of them!
They do that by bending backwards and talking English whenever there’s an Anglophone present no matter if they’re the only one in a group of ten that doesn’t speak French fluently
Sure, if you’re lucky enough to be on the south side of Montreal and literally nowhere else.
They do that by having the biggest college and university in Quebec be English ones (the latter being the third richest in Canada)
They’re so generous that they just doubled tuition for out-of-province students, a clear attack on their English-speaking institutions, and one so severe that many programs at these schools will have to cut up to 25% of their course offerings to make up the budget shortfalls. Clearly they’re throwing their full support behind their internationally-acclaimed English institutions.
They do that by being more bilingual
Lol, again, sure, if you happen to live in the southern half of Montreal, maybe. And that’s not counting the huge number of people who clearly speak English but refuse to do so for nationalistic reasons. I know literally zero French-speaking Anglo-Canadians who show similar behavior.
They do that by never having prevented them from learning their language in school contrary to what happened to French Canadians outside Quebec
It is literally illegal for me to send my two kids to an English-speaking school right now, so you can go peddle that crock of shit to someone who doesn’t have to deal with Quebec’s language bullshit on a daily basis. And that’s not even to mention Quebec’s abysmal record, both historically and recently on first nations language policies.
(By the way, it’s also illegal for me to try to seek healthcare in English in Quebec now too. Just another fun fyi for ya.)
Fucking French Canadians and their hate for the english language! Truly they’re bigots all of them!
This, but (mostly) unironically.
Sure, if you’re lucky enough to be on the south side of Montreal and literally nowhere else.
Bull fucking shit, https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/98-200-x/2016009/98-200-x2016009-eng.cfm
The only places where you’ll have a hard time getting service in English is in rural regions very far from major city centers. Heck, first Nations in Abitibi often speak English and they get service in that language.
They’re so generous that they just [doubled tuition for out-of-province students
Which is still lower than the price it costs for out of province students to go to school in other provinces, you forgot to mention that part
I know literally zero French-speaking Anglo-Canadians who show similar behavior.
Go spend some time in the west island or north of Gatineau and say that again with a straight face
It is literally illegal for me to send my two kids to an English-speaking school *right now
One of either parents needs to have went to school in English and it can also be accepted under other conditions, how about checking the government’s website instead of looking at an anti-French journal?
By the way, it’s also [illegal for me to try to seek healthcare in English in Quebec now too
Fear mongering by English media and not the reality? Who would have thought? 😱
The only places where you’ll have a hard time getting service in English is in rural regions very far from major city centers.
This just shows that you either don’t live here or are a French-speaker and therefore don’t see it (which is ironic given your initial comment). In Quebec City I’ve been refused service in French for even asking about service in English.
Which is still lower than the price it costs for out of province students to go to school in other provinces
Where are you getting this info? Most of the sources I can find show that most Quebec students pay rates comparable to in-province students across Anglophone Canada. Quebec seems to be the only one actively legislating discriminatory policies here.
One of either parents needs to have went to school in English
We both went to school in English, but it’s still illegal for us because we’re immigrants. Trust me, we’ve checked, and the fact that you automatically jumped to assuming that I’d even know where to find an “anti-French journal” speaks volumes about your perspective on this conversation.
Edit: I just realized you probably meant “newspaper” here. I get all of my info about stuff like this from the government website, and from calling government services to make sure I fully understand my (lack of) rights.
Fear mongering by English media and not the reality? Who would have thought? 😱
I’m not sure how something I have to deal with on a weekly basis is fear mongering. The problem with your source there is that to be seen at any of those facilities I first have to go through RAMQ, and literally every time I call RAMQ I have to declare, under penalty of perjury, that I’m legally entitled to use English in order to use it, and again, I’m not legally entitled to use it because I’m an immigrant, so I have to stumble through MY FUCKING HEALTHCARE in a language I don’t speak fluently, when they literally have service available in the language but just refuse it to me for prejudicial reasons.
By this point it’s clear that you have no interest in opening your eyes to the realities that many English speakers face in Quebec, possibly for the nationalistic reasons that led to these (increasingly severe) discriminatory policies in the first place, so I see little reason to continue this conversation.
For everyone else following this convo, just keep in mind that linguistic discrimination can happen to English speakers just like it can to other languages (though in aggregate English obviously still holds a place of privilege relative to most other languages). And if you’re reading this and you’re lucky enough to have voting rights in Quebec, please vote for candidates that support non-discriminatory language policies.
Where are you getting this info? Most of the sources I can find show that most Quebec students pay rates comparable to in-province students across Anglophone Canada. Quebec seems to be the only one actively legislating discriminatory policies here.
Cegep and university in Quebec is cheaper than the equivalents in other provinces.
Just go on different university websites and create a fake application as an out of province student and compare the rates.
Quebec’s part of the university fees were so low that the rates were cheaper than in other provinces for out of province students. People flipped out because they were comparing the cost to studying in their own province vs coming to Quebec without looking at what it costs if the situation is reversed.
There’s very few exceptions where parents that went to school in English wouldn’t be able to send their kids to an English school, even for immigrants
https://educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/access-to-english-schools-in-quebec/
How long have you been living in Quebec? The way you talk you’ve been all over the place so I’m going to bet quite a while, right? So if you were in contact with the RAMQ before the new law you can have service in English without fear of a law that will never be applied. If you have been here more than six months but not long enough to be exempted you just go to through the English service and you tell them “Je ne parle pas très bien le français, désolé, je suis en train d’apprendre.” and that will be it, if you’ve been here less than six months the law doesn’t apply.
Not so hard right?
Now I want you to think about the opposite situation, if you were a French only speaker and you went to live in British-Colombia, what do you think French provincial services would look like? You know, there’s a reason why they don’t need to implement similar laws over there, it’s because the services don’t exist in the first place so you get service in English or you don’t get service at all. Just remember, the conversation was about French Canadians vs Anglo Canadians, French Canadians exist outside Quebec and they’re treated like fucking shit compared to Anglo Canadians living in Quebec and could only dream to have access to as much services.
I’ve been here two years, so my family is right in the middle of the “get fucked” zone in basically every possible way for the foreseeable future. (This also includes being repeatedly denied permanent residency that we would automatically be granted if we lived 50km west of where we do, i.e. in Ontario. According to the HR director at my company, after the passage of the law Immigration has started an unofficial policy of putting residency applications that otherwise have enough points to qualify but don’t speak French directly into the “reject” pile.)
I appreciate you taking time to provide the links and advice though.
I’m definitely not saying that French-Canadians have it better in the rest of Canada and that has never been my argument – I completely agree with your original comment that Anglo-Canadians are unintentionally racist toward French-Canadians, but my original comment is also 100% true, that French-Canadians are instead intentionally racist toward English speakers.
and not just language
Fully agree with this, homie. Wife and I lived in Montreal area as temporary foreign workers for like 4 years. Tried so hard to fit in and be polite, but would essentially get spit at or ignored everytime my accent was a tiny bit off. Didn’t say it perfectly the Quebecois way? Fuck you. Ask something in English? Hope you’re in a tourist area, otherwise fuck you. Want your medical records/labs in a different language? Fuck you. Ask for English menus? Fuck you and now your waitress hates you.
Also watched a friend from France repeatedly get told he’s speaking French wrong. Also they have like an actual department of language policing.
Quebec is poopy buttsauce. 0/10. Happy to be gone. Celine Dion is overrated. Sorry not sorry.
From my experience as someone who lives in Alberta and who considers himself English Canadian, no one here actively hates french language or culture. We simply don’t have enough of a need for french or enough of a cultural presence to really embrace it, and anyone who wants to has to actively go out of their way to do so. Maybe it’s different in Ontario, but it isn’t racism or hate. We simply don’t use it
Albertans don’t hate on French Canadians, they hate on Quebec specifically.
Hell, my friend went to work in the oil fields and had his car (with Quebec plate) vandalized at work in the first week he was there because he didn’t have the time to register it in Alberta and was then told by other people it happened to that it’s just what happens to all Quebecois over there…
You mean the french?
MAAAAAAAHAAAA THE FRENCH
Reminds me of a joke that you hear a lot in Europe:
What do you call someone who can speak many languages? Polyglottal.
What do you call someone who can speak two languages? Bilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks one language? English.
…“doesn’t speak perfect English”
Yours sincerely, the English.
Hi it’s me, the English
I speak the same English that they used in the Bible.
Forsooth, verily.
truly ironic given some of your accents
U wot m8
Ad it wif um. Fancy spoons?
Non-native English speakers are still often better at English than native English speakers that choose to write like they are illiterate.
