We use oil and gas because it’s the option that has been made most available to us. This isn’t an individual problem. As long as the alternatives are prohibitively expensive for the average person, in terms of time, money, availability, etc, then we’re going to always have the bulk of people choosing the easiest option.
We all have so much to worry about each day, trying to fit biking to my job a 45 minute drive away just isn’t feasible. The options for changing that are either we go fuckin full on anarchy, burn the system down, and start anew, or slowly, systematically. Set an easily achievable baseline the average person can work to adopt, encourage it via subsidization and education, and give it time.
You’re thinking about this wrong, you choose your lifestyle.
You simply aren’t willing to give up your lifestyle to avoid emissions. It’s clearly possible to live a less polluting lifestyle, there are billions of people polluting almost nothing compared to Western averages, their lifestyle just doesn’t have as many conveniences as yours.
There are North American people who have chosen to live ultra-simplistic lives who pollute almost nothing as well.
That’s a choice YOU make. It may not feel like you made a choice, but you do so every day by not changing your behaviors.
You’re right. At the end of the day, your lifestyle is your choice. I’m merely pointing out that there are a LOT of pressures keeping people stuck in the lifestyle they’re in. Those pressures are real, and if you want to effect change, it’s better to target them, rather than the individual.
The pressures are not real, they’re entirely social constructs.
The easiest fix is for the government to just tax carbon emissions, like Canada, and turn turn the cost way up. The market (Corporations) will change very quickly if it’s cheaper not to pollute.
Will it hurt people? Yes. Costs will go up, but pollution will go down. That’s the tradeoff.
Societal pressures are real, though. It doesn’t matter that there’s not a physical force making you do a certain thing. Humans are social animals. We’re, from day 1, molded by the world we were born into. To claim that you can just deny all of those drives is, quite simply, arrogant.
Again, I want change. I want to make it as easy as possible for the individual to do the best they can. Beating them about the head, saying “well you can just choose not to eat meat!” Doesn’t help that cause.
As a vegan, you’re absolutely right. A lot of people think the hard part is giving up meat or dairy or eggs, but it’s not. The hard part is dealing with the social implications. Explaining to your friends you aren’t willing to eat with them when they’re doing something you find thoroughly wrong. Having your mom disappointed you won’t eat her cooking.
You have to be willing, at least somewhat, to pay the cost of maintaining your convictions, and nobody ever tells you that when you start.
Social change is hard, and it takes time. But so many have already blazed a much harder path than I’ve had to endure, and every time someone else gets on board it makes it easier.
Doing the right thing is rarely the easiest thing.
Exactly. So many people write off the impact society makes on our individual decisions. The thing that’s critical to remember is, we’re all doing our best. I believe that thoroughly - no one wants to be less than the best version of themselves. Celebrate the smallest of wins, and eventually we’ll all be there.
It’s not arrogant, people absolutely cast off social norms all the time. That’s how we drive change in our world already.
Remember segregation? We started out of that with people ignoring the rules (on both sides) despite the significant cost.
It’s dead simple to stop eating meat from a social perspective, vegetarians are extremely common these days. To add to that, there’s no social cost at all for simply reducing meat consumption. None of your friends are going to complain about you serving carbonara instead of steak when they come over.
And all of those social norms took time. Took small changes. We didn’t just bring a bunch of slaves over, and one day say “nah this ain’t right.” We had a MASSIVE chain of events that led to, finally, enough people being done with it, and they started a war. We didn’t just say “hey,black people shouldn’t be forced to use different facilities”, we had a massive chain of social events that shaped our cultural landscape, making it easier for people to do the right thing.
That’s my point. It’s not just a flip of the switch and it’s done. It’s small, incremental steps that win over people slowly. Just the fact that you bring up reduction at all is more evidence for my point. You have got to start small, if you want to see it through.
If it was as simple as you make it out to be, we’d already be in a utopia.
Let me ask you this - what, exactly, do you think my argument is?
We use oil and gas because it’s the option that has been made most available to us. This isn’t an individual problem. As long as the alternatives are prohibitively expensive for the average person, in terms of time, money, availability, etc, then we’re going to always have the bulk of people choosing the easiest option.
We all have so much to worry about each day, trying to fit biking to my job a 45 minute drive away just isn’t feasible. The options for changing that are either we go fuckin full on anarchy, burn the system down, and start anew, or slowly, systematically. Set an easily achievable baseline the average person can work to adopt, encourage it via subsidization and education, and give it time.
You’re thinking about this wrong, you choose your lifestyle.
You simply aren’t willing to give up your lifestyle to avoid emissions. It’s clearly possible to live a less polluting lifestyle, there are billions of people polluting almost nothing compared to Western averages, their lifestyle just doesn’t have as many conveniences as yours.
There are North American people who have chosen to live ultra-simplistic lives who pollute almost nothing as well.
That’s a choice YOU make. It may not feel like you made a choice, but you do so every day by not changing your behaviors.
You’re right. At the end of the day, your lifestyle is your choice. I’m merely pointing out that there are a LOT of pressures keeping people stuck in the lifestyle they’re in. Those pressures are real, and if you want to effect change, it’s better to target them, rather than the individual.
The pressures are not real, they’re entirely social constructs.
The easiest fix is for the government to just tax carbon emissions, like Canada, and turn turn the cost way up. The market (Corporations) will change very quickly if it’s cheaper not to pollute.
Will it hurt people? Yes. Costs will go up, but pollution will go down. That’s the tradeoff.
Societal pressures are real, though. It doesn’t matter that there’s not a physical force making you do a certain thing. Humans are social animals. We’re, from day 1, molded by the world we were born into. To claim that you can just deny all of those drives is, quite simply, arrogant.
Again, I want change. I want to make it as easy as possible for the individual to do the best they can. Beating them about the head, saying “well you can just choose not to eat meat!” Doesn’t help that cause.
As a vegan, you’re absolutely right. A lot of people think the hard part is giving up meat or dairy or eggs, but it’s not. The hard part is dealing with the social implications. Explaining to your friends you aren’t willing to eat with them when they’re doing something you find thoroughly wrong. Having your mom disappointed you won’t eat her cooking.
You have to be willing, at least somewhat, to pay the cost of maintaining your convictions, and nobody ever tells you that when you start.
Social change is hard, and it takes time. But so many have already blazed a much harder path than I’ve had to endure, and every time someone else gets on board it makes it easier.
Doing the right thing is rarely the easiest thing.
Exactly. So many people write off the impact society makes on our individual decisions. The thing that’s critical to remember is, we’re all doing our best. I believe that thoroughly - no one wants to be less than the best version of themselves. Celebrate the smallest of wins, and eventually we’ll all be there.
It’s not arrogant, people absolutely cast off social norms all the time. That’s how we drive change in our world already.
Remember segregation? We started out of that with people ignoring the rules (on both sides) despite the significant cost.
It’s dead simple to stop eating meat from a social perspective, vegetarians are extremely common these days. To add to that, there’s no social cost at all for simply reducing meat consumption. None of your friends are going to complain about you serving carbonara instead of steak when they come over.
And all of those social norms took time. Took small changes. We didn’t just bring a bunch of slaves over, and one day say “nah this ain’t right.” We had a MASSIVE chain of events that led to, finally, enough people being done with it, and they started a war. We didn’t just say “hey,black people shouldn’t be forced to use different facilities”, we had a massive chain of social events that shaped our cultural landscape, making it easier for people to do the right thing.
That’s my point. It’s not just a flip of the switch and it’s done. It’s small, incremental steps that win over people slowly. Just the fact that you bring up reduction at all is more evidence for my point. You have got to start small, if you want to see it through.
If it was as simple as you make it out to be, we’d already be in a utopia.
Let me ask you this - what, exactly, do you think my argument is?