Hi, this is Andy here, the Founder/CEO of Proton. As former scientists, we don’t do what we’re doing to make the most money (otherwise we wouldn’t have picked science as a profession). There’s no price which we would sell Proton to Google or Facebook. We also don’t need to because thanks to the strong support of the community, Proton has the resources to thrive and grow as an independent organization. Safeguarding this independence is how we ensure that over the long term, we can always put user interest above all else.
-Protonmail Founder, 2 years ago, for what it’s worth.
And what happens when you do speak up is in plain view all over the media currently. Google is done for, there is no way they will return to how they were before Pichai and his cronies
I want to see some assurance. I don’t know Switzerland’s laws, but if there’s a concept of a “social purpose company” or something with actual legal teeth, that would make me a bit more comfortable.
They’re certainly better than Google, and I like that their products are audited, but words from their founder don’t need much, especially if the founder decides to leave.
You should be aware Tuta won’t let you use a third party client, automatically forward messages, or do a mass export of your email. It’s not impossible to move but they deliberately make it difficult. So does Proton in their own away.
They’ll say it’s about maintaining the security of your emails and such, but it’s just a vender lock in tactic.
Automatic forwarding isn’t an issue IMO since I can do that at the DNS level for custom domains. However, everyone on my plan at the same domain would need to switch at the same time.
But definitely something to take into account. Hopefully it’s just the immaturity of the product and will get resolved with time. Proton also didn’t have IMAP when it started, and it has a workable bridge now (so bulk export is an option that way). Proton also supports encrypted email forwarding now (encryption probably only applies to internal to Proton forwards), so hopefully Tuta follows suit.
Maybe I’ll switch to Proton instead, IDK. My emails aren’t that valuable to me long term, so I’d be fine downloading/forwarding the few I care about manually. My primary goal here is to get off Google, and I’m willing to jump through a few hoops to do so (and Tuta is pretty good and pretty inexpensive). But that may not be true for others.
Problem is with the way email security is going now, it’s entirely possible in a few years, if your domain/provider isn’t an established one, it will get blocked by others.
I’ve had a few domain just straight up block some Tutamail emails.
But here’s the other issue: Proton and Tutanota are both not going to make it easy on you to move your mail.
I believe this is already the case; domain reputation is weighted pretty heavily by Gmail and others, so it will take some months before you’ve established enough rep. Following SPF/DMARC/DKIM is crucial, followed with time your domain has been registered and typical outbound volume from your domain.
You can switch MX records but not necessarily your mail storage. You need IMAP for that, and IMAP with Proton currently requires jumping through some hoops and it may be discontinued in the near future.
They’ve never given any guarantees regarding IMAP and they actually seem to consider it a negative so that remains a dubious point with me.
It’s unlikely but not impossible. I’ve been using PM with a custom domain for about five years now, and never thought too hard about leaving.
In an ideal world, a company like ProtonMail would be cooperatively owned by the workers and paying users, sort of like a credit union.
Pragmatically, they’ve done fine stewardship of the service for the last decade or so they’ve been around. A big part of it is that their value proposition depends on stability and trust. But it could be better.
I always worry that it will get bought out by some asshole company and we’ll be even worse off than with Google (if that’s even possible).
-Protonmail Founder, 2 years ago, for what it’s worth.
Google’s motto used to be “don’t be evil”
Companies can change.
OK, yeah, try not relying on any company for any service. Proton is as reliable as it gets.
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That’s a code of conduct. It used to be their motto
My mistake. Sorry.
And what happens when you do speak up is in plain view all over the media currently. Google is done for, there is no way they will return to how they were before Pichai and his cronies
Trust, but verify.
I want to see some assurance. I don’t know Switzerland’s laws, but if there’s a concept of a “social purpose company” or something with actual legal teeth, that would make me a bit more comfortable.
They’re certainly better than Google, and I like that their products are audited, but words from their founder don’t need much, especially if the founder decides to leave.
That’s the benefit of a custom domain, I suppose; you can always change he provider without changing your email.
Yup, I just signed up for Tuta with a custom domain. If they start sucking, I’ll move to Proton or something else.
You should be aware Tuta won’t let you use a third party client, automatically forward messages, or do a mass export of your email. It’s not impossible to move but they deliberately make it difficult. So does Proton in their own away.
They’ll say it’s about maintaining the security of your emails and such, but it’s just a vender lock in tactic.
Proton allows you to export as eml or mbox. Seems fine to me?
And they support automatic forwarding to external addresses, provided you’re on a premium plan, which you need to be for a custom domain.
Dang.
Some good news though:
Automatic forwarding isn’t an issue IMO since I can do that at the DNS level for custom domains. However, everyone on my plan at the same domain would need to switch at the same time.
But definitely something to take into account. Hopefully it’s just the immaturity of the product and will get resolved with time. Proton also didn’t have IMAP when it started, and it has a workable bridge now (so bulk export is an option that way). Proton also supports encrypted email forwarding now (encryption probably only applies to internal to Proton forwards), so hopefully Tuta follows suit.
Maybe I’ll switch to Proton instead, IDK. My emails aren’t that valuable to me long term, so I’d be fine downloading/forwarding the few I care about manually. My primary goal here is to get off Google, and I’m willing to jump through a few hoops to do so (and Tuta is pretty good and pretty inexpensive). But that may not be true for others.
Problem is with the way email security is going now, it’s entirely possible in a few years, if your domain/provider isn’t an established one, it will get blocked by others.
I’ve had a few domain just straight up block some Tutamail emails.
But here’s the other issue: Proton and Tutanota are both not going to make it easy on you to move your mail.
I believe this is already the case; domain reputation is weighted pretty heavily by Gmail and others, so it will take some months before you’ve established enough rep. Following SPF/DMARC/DKIM is crucial, followed with time your domain has been registered and typical outbound volume from your domain.
I moved away from Tuta, and while getting my mail out wasn’t as straightforward as with regular mail services, it also wasn’t hard.
Proton offers an IMAP bridge, which will let you use any IMAP client to download your mail and then transfer it somewhere else.
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You can switch MX records but not necessarily your mail storage. You need IMAP for that, and IMAP with Proton currently requires jumping through some hoops and it may be discontinued in the near future.
They’ve never given any guarantees regarding IMAP and they actually seem to consider it a negative so that remains a dubious point with me.
It’s unlikely but not impossible. I’ve been using PM with a custom domain for about five years now, and never thought too hard about leaving.
In an ideal world, a company like ProtonMail would be cooperatively owned by the workers and paying users, sort of like a credit union.
Pragmatically, they’ve done fine stewardship of the service for the last decade or so they’ve been around. A big part of it is that their value proposition depends on stability and trust. But it could be better.