During a remarkable congressional hearing, former American intelligence official David Grusch revealed that the US government conducted a "multi-decade" programme aimed at collecting and reverse-engineering crashed unidentified flying objects (UFOs).
Grusch, who was in charge of investigating unexplained anomalous phenomena within a US Department of Defence agency until 2023, spoke before the House oversight committee in Washington, shedding light on the issue of alien life and technology, as reported by the Guardian.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
You know it when you see it. Believing is for things you never have seen.
Thats the point of the phrase. The idea is so unbelievable that it needs to be personally verified before it can be taken seriously…
Not to mention, you can see something and still not ‘know’ - stage magic, for one.
See also: ‘it has to be seen to be believed’; ‘i cant believe my eyes’; the word ‘unbelievable’
No end of useless pedantry these days
Yeah, no. You’re equating belief with faith.
I don’t “believe” things until that belief is justified.
Question for you, do you believe in Evolution?
Bruh. Literally thousands of studies out there demonstrate the principle of evolution. You need only look at dog breeding or crop breeding to see it in action, albeit human induced instead of natural.
We dont believe in evolution because one guy said it was true. And dont give me that ‘hurr durr but Darwin said it was true’ nonsense. He did (as did other contemporaries of his time) but it wasnt accepted until overwhelming evidence from countless observations and studies made it obvious.
Now lets look at this situation. One guy says he heard the government has non human remains. Not exactly the analogy you thought you were making.
And Ill cut this off at the pass because the next argument I always hear usually boils down to ‘we can only know what we see’ which is basically a solopsist argument. Which is self defeating because then you absolutely cant argue there’s merit to this guy’s testimony because you cant be sure of anything.
Except it’s not just one guy saying aliens are here, it’s hundreds, and these three said it under oath unlike the scientists you speak of. Yet you believe the word of the scientists and not the word of these men. You don’t see the hypocrisy there?
Easy, Mac
The scientists dont just say it. They document and present evidence, which is then reviewed, reproduced and confirmed by other scientists
These men… not so much
I have bigfoot in my fridge. I will testify to this under oath. Now you must believe me.
Oh fuck.
@DaughterOfMars @Holyginz You can see it scientifically. So, yes.
Oh, you can, surely. But have you? As Mac says, “Have you seen these fossil records? Have you poured through the data yourself? The numbers, the figures?”
Confidently denying something because you haven’t personally seen the evidence makes you look as much an idiot as confidently accepting it without evidence.
My guy, as respectfully as possible what the fuck are you smoking
Crack cocaine, what of it?
@DaughterOfMars Are you asking if I was “boots on the ground” with archeologists? Nope. However, considering humans, I consider people admitting they might be wrong and adopting better concepts as evolution. Evolution is not about intelligence, but, adaptation to survive. I would say I have seen evolution, personally, in my life.
@DaughterOfMars Funny thing…our “intelligence” went only so far. Now, it seems that all the people who piggybacked the science and don’t truly understand it are going to kill us.
Bit of a nitpick, but adaptation is not evolution. I was about to say that you cannot observe capital E Evolution in your own lifetime but then I remembered stuff on the bacterial scale that reproduces at break neck pace and is absolutely observable. HIV is one of these examples.
@ngdev I think semantics plays a part in this, too. Survival of the fittest, so to speak.
@ngdev Coronavirus, too.
@ngdev Thank you.
Indeed, micro-evolution is quite fast because the rate of mutation is relatively high and generations are short. Macro-evolution is actually not generally well-understood by lay-people, primarily because it involves thinking on a scale that is so far outside of our short lifetimes. Not many people are capable of thinking on a scale outside of their own asses let alone across thousands of generations, hence the severe level of closed-mindedness in this thread alone…
I think the idea I was referencing when I mentioned evolution not being observable in one’s lifetime is actually better stated as:
Evolution cannot be observed in the lifetime of an individual of the species in question. I.E. A HIV “cell” won’t live to see the evolved, drug-resistant ones down the line
There’s no such thing as micro- and macro-evolution, those are terms made up by creationists to try to deny the existence of evolution in the face of direct observation of evolution
Here’s my point: Your reasons for believing in Evolution are your own, but don’t pretend that you know it for a fact. We all have to accept things we cannot personally verify to make progress as a society and that very progress should be your driving force, NOT your own biases.
@DaughterOfMars If that is the answer, why ask the question? Science is not my “bias.” We can choose to teust the professionals or not. I just gave you my reason for my belief that evolution is real and how I have seen it. I left Twitter for this type of ridicule from religious nuts and flat earthers. I take it you saw my profile. Regardless, make peace with yourself and have humility.
😂 Why on earth would you think I give a shit about you enough to read your profile? How self-centered can you be…unbelievable. Maybe you should ask yourself why you’re spending time in a community about UFOs if you’re not willing to accept the possibility that they exist. You realize that makes you one of those trolls you mention, don’t you? Don’t you??
Have you ever seen your brain? I didn’t. Can I assume that you have a pile of racoon vomit instead of it? Of course I can, and actually I will, and I will not allow for any other information until you personally show me the entirety of your brain.
Now you’re getting it!
I get what you are trying to say, but one thing is a completely belief system while the other can be verified and ha been verified by several people that have studied it. Like, yeah you can “study” theism but you will never be able to see the evidence, while in the other case, you can.
I decide to trust people that have shown images and data about the evidence, that are way more prepared than me to research that field. I don’t have enough interest to actually do all the groundwork myself, so I decide to trust the people that are authorities in that field, whom have the proven experience and studies that validate their authority.
As I said, I cannot do the same thing with religious facts, it’s all “he said, she said, it’s in the book, the Lord commanded”… There’s no evidence, no real infraestructure of proof and validation, it’s a complete belief system, and that’s why I don’t consider those people and organizations authorities in these kind of topics.
It’s really simple tbh.
Duh
You make my point so eloquently. You take it as a matter of fact that Evolution exists, despite never actually validating this yourself. It is, in your eyes, ridiculous to think that it doesn’t exist – after all, you were taught that it does in school. But before the 19th century the theory of Evolution didn’t even exist. Probably some speculated about it, but were not taken seriously. Yet you have fully accepted it without, as you say, seeing it.
Yea, that doesn’t prove anything. There’s countless research and information documenting evolution happening over time. Hell there are some cases of it noticeably happening as well. There is no information about these "ufo"s outside of what is mentioned here. No data that’s currently available to back it up and nothing to prove that this person coming forward isn’t being told incorrect information themselves. The likelihood of something like this is so statistically low that nobody should be taking it at face value without verifiable proof. “Trust me bro” is not, never has been and never will be good enough scientifically.
Do you think, then, that we should reverse any decisions made purely on witness testimony? Grusch spent four years investigating this in his official position and is testifying under oath that he has seen incontrovertible evidence of it. That IS proof, and about as damn good testimony as we’ve ever had in our history.
But look, I know you’re not going to change your mind, because you are as inflexible in your beliefs as a brick. I’m only making a point here because other, more mature folks may happen upon it and I want them to know how much of a mongoloid you are for coming into a UFO community just to fart out your brain-dead, parroted opinion for us all to ruminate in.
Lol, I couldn’t care less about the insults of someone lacking critical thinking skills who upon being called out for lack of scientific knowledge tries to act intelligent without even understanding the concepts you are trying to talk about. If they provide actual evidence I will believe it. Until then I’m not buying it. You are free to continue believing anyone who makes am unsubstantiated claim before any evidence is provided. Oh, and I know a saying that you should really take to heart. “It’s better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and prove you are.” Just a little friendly advice, hope it was eloquent enough for you to understand :)
Yes. Eyewitness testimony alone shouldn’t be enough to convict anyone.
Ah, so then you think Bill Cosby should walk free, yes?
That wasn’t just eye witness testimony…
You’re really really bad at this.
And it’s a bad comparison: “Did this guy rape women? Something that has happened before?” Compared to “These guys are saying they once say aliens.” Something that has never been (truthfully) documented before.
‘Mongoloid’ is a slur - it was once used to refer to people with Down Syndrome, due to a C19th doctor comparing physical features of Down Syndrome parients with those of Mongolian people.
This doctor wrote that Down Syndrome was a reversion to an ‘inferior race’.
It is both racist and ablist :/
I hear you, but to be completely honest almost all of our “insult” words and phrases are derived from pretty abhorrent places. There’s really no point in substituting one for the other when you’re trying to tell someone you think they are stupid.
We don’t need to validate that it exists because science has proven it over and over countless times.
Have you ever validated for yourself that an element like lithium exists?
Have you ever validated for yourself that nuclear fission exists?
Have you ever validated for yourself that E=mc^2?
Have you ever validated for yourself that antibiotics like penicillin actually do what they purport to do?
Nope, but I don’t go around pretending I have. You see, unlike you I am open to changing my opinion based on evidence.
Pretty sure that’s exactly what “believe it when I see it” means.
No, it means “I am going to dismiss any and all evidence until such a time as it satisfies my definition of believable.”
Yes. That’s a long way of saying “I’ll believe it when I see it.”
Not to mention your example is extremely flawed. Evolution usually happens over long periods of time and you can only see the results of it. What they are claiming is something physical that you can see and touch and acquire physical proof of. It’s not even remotely the same.
You’re saying there’s no physical proof of evolution?
No, he explicitly said we see the results of it.
Doesn’t require “belief”. Like gravity, it unfolds with you or without you.