I am not criticizing them, I’m just out of the loop.

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    The Fediverse is home to a lot of young, tech-minded people distrustful of major corporations. The younger generations are more likely to come out as transgender due to greater awareness and acceptance of gender identity and dysphoria, and a decentralised, open platform is naturally going to appeal to communists, syndicalists and other left-wingers who don’t want some billionaire buying the next website they get comfortable on. And funnily enough, there are a surprising number of trans people in the tech sector, to the point where trans-flag socks have become a meme among programmers.

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      This seems like the most straightforward answer. But it doesn’t explain why people on the right haven’t come to the fediverse in proportional numbers. I know a lot of right leaning Libertarian communities, and for some reason they like cryptocurrency and FOSS but not the fediverse.

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        There are right-wing instances of Mastodon (gab, truth, and others), not to mention many Pleroma ones, as well as Lemmy (exploding heads, and probably others). It’s just that they get quickly defederated by everyone else for various valid reasons (usually hate and abuse, sometimes even child porn), so you don’t get to interact with them much. They just get stuck in their own bubble.

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                From this link it seems that almost no one is blocking exploding heads… and I just found out that my instance isn’t even blocking truth social 😨

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                  Isn’t this just a good indicator that there might not be a need to defederate? If they aren’t causing problems for your users than it doesn’t seem right to defed preemptively.

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            I’m also on SDF. Can confirm that while we’re still federated with exploding-heads, I never see their content in my feeds. Ever.

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              Interesting. I wonder if the main community they spam in are just banned and not the instance. I got so much spam from one user who posted like several things an hour all day with no engagement on any posts when I would sort by new before we defederated. It was weird.

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              If no one on that instance subscribed to a community, doesn’t it not show up in your all feed? Maybe just no one on that instance subscribes to any explodingheads communities.

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                I think this is the key. There’s no need to defederate if nobody’s subscribing to their content in the first place on your instance.

                Seeing a flood of content you dislike on your instance from another instance means there’s at least one person on your instance subscribing to it.

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        proportional

        Maybe they just don’t have the actual numbers you’d expect from their outsized presence in the discourse, when they’re not being protected, or facilitated, or actively promoted by engagement algorithms or the individuals who own the other platforms.

        (I’m pretty sure this is the case, but I’m too lazy to get sources just this minute)

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          And they have very few supporters here. If you allways get screemed at by everybody if you say anything you probably loose interest in posting. On those big platforms there are allways people who support you in what you say.

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        But they have. It’s just they are so hateful and annoying that sooner than later they get banned or defederated. So they drop out of the face of the activity pub. Since no single entity can use an algo to force their views onto all users (ads or suggestion algos) they never resurface.

        And of course crypto bros hate the fediverse, it doesn’t let them force their ponzi schemes with ads or SEOed posts. And most people here were initially pretty tech savvy individuals, almost all actively hostile against nfts and altcoins. As for Foss, they only like that the software is free, the freedom ideology is just lip service for them, they don’t actually believe. Case in point, Oracle. Foss? Free for me but not for thee.

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        People on the right don’t see the issue with neoliberalism. They are mostly fine with all the ads based system and corporate making billions out of the datas. Neoliberalism tend towards fascism with time. They will prefer fascism to redistribute profits to the workers.

        The fediverse is a different point of view. You can defederate if it goes wrong with an instance what makes the profits by ad revenue impossible or too small. The big corps don’t have a huge interest in these platform without profits. People on the right will follow these corps and the platforms affiliated.

        On the left, people will federate. I recommend to have a good read about the fondation of the unions in the 19th century. People of the diversity will historically be on the left rather than on the right. Again, for the profits, the neoliberals will prefer to oppress you as a minority for the profits than to have social and societal consideration for you.

        You ends with the people of the left coming to the fediverse and the right on corps social media.

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        I am here and a big supporter of OSS, but many would call me right wing. I support living your life how you want privately and acknowledging different identities and sexualities, because if you aren’t flaunting it, how would I even know? But I also feel that sex, intimacy, etc should be private and should not be something discussed or displayed so openly, regardless of orientation, so many would label me as conservative.

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          As long as your definition of keeping those things private includes heterosexual couples holding hands, giving each other a kiss, or showing off their pregnancy or kids.

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          You (and probably I) are going to get downvotes for this, but this is as reasonable a take as I’ve seen from any “conservative” so far. As long as you’re not actively promoting legislation to curtail or ban consenting adults from privately expressing their love for others in the ways they feel most comfortable. I hope you’re not against gender-affirmation therapies.

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            The issue I have with this is that publicly expressing their love for others is an extremely natural and normal thing to do. Talking openly about your opposite-gender spouse, kissing or holding hands with your partner, going out for a nice date - whatever. These are all totally normal things which people won’t blink at when a heterosexual couple is doing it, yet LGBT people can still be discriminated against for these behaviours. That’s not even getting into trans or gender-non-conforming people, who can be discriminated against simply for existing and presenting the way they do.

            I don’t just want to ensure that LGBT people are free from explicit legislative discrimination. I want them to be free from social discrimination as well. Social consequences for being publicly gay are not acceptable, even if people aren’t in favour of more open forms of discrimination.

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      I’d argue the ‘young’ though. Polls I’ve seen, seem to show a huge 30-40 demographic.

      • MaxVerstappen@lemmy.world
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        Ya, most young people I know that are not in tech are terrible with tech. They have only experienced EZmode and need shit put on a silver platter.

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      i think that’s why the fediverse is doomed to perpetual obscurity. my reddit-refugee addictions have taught me that only reddit has the content that i like and that i need to learn how to appreciate stuff i don’t like to get my fix; i wonder how people get started on furry stuff. lol

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    Trans people and communists are nearly half of software dev. The other half are furries.

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      That’s a possibility. Since the platform started off on their terms, it’s harder to convince new people of opposing politics to join the community.

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        A big part is because things like the Fediverse are aligned with the goal of Communists. Do away with the profit motive and constant rat race so we can spend time doing and making great things.

        Imagine if Facebook wasn’t interested in ad revenue and data gathering but truly sought to keep people connected and to facilitate communication. No bullshit algorithm, no manipulation to keep people doom scrolling.

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          On a technical level, federation is arguably just as compatible with libertarianism. Each instance is its own island nation, free to set its own rules while members vote with their feet in free association. That it hasn’t gone that route is more to do with the founding population than the technology.

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            Ya, the tech interests me. It feels like a version of the earlier internet where private forums and webrings were the norm. I like the native support for blocking things I don’t care to see as well.

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        Most of them seem to be centred around a few instances, they’re pretty easy to avoid once you have the lay of the land.

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    it’s amazing what you see when algorithms aren’t deciding it for you.

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      Maybe it’s that homophobia and transphobia are so dominant on more popular platforms that there is a natural migration towards more free and liberal platforms. I always wondered why you see more and more racism, hate and such degeneracy the larger a platform becomes.

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        I think it’s because leftists are, as a group, a lot less toxic and hateful. They are happy to be a tiny community chatting with each other about being a trans furry communist all day every day.

        The right on the other hand are, as a group, a bunch of anti social losers who thrive on hating and complaining about stuff. That’s not a sustainable platform because it’s either a miserable experience or it gets shut down for hate speech so they migrate around and attach themselves to heathier communities and complain about those instead.

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        It’s because when platforms get large enough Nazis (not metaphorical ones, actual 1488 self described National Socialists) start targeting them for recruitment purposes.

        If you know where to look you can see them organize in real time.

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    The issue I have with this is that publicly expressing their love for others is an extremely natural and normal thing to do. Talking openly about your opposite-gender spouse, kissing or holding hands with your partner, going out for a nice date - whatever. These are all totally normal things which people won’t blink at when a heterosexual couple is doing it, yet LGBT people can still be discriminated against for these behaviours. That’s not even getting into trans or gender-non-conforming people, who can be discriminated against simply for existing and presenting the way they do.

    I don’t just want to ensure that LGBT people are free from explicit legislative discrimination. I want them to be free from social discrimination as well. Social consequences for being publicly gay are not acceptable, even if people aren’t in favour of more open forms of discrimination.

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    Why is there such a large amount of Nazi, fascist, conservative, Republican, and bootlicking related posts on other platforms compared to the Fediverse?

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      Thanks for this. It was very well-reasoned, and gave me a perspective I hadn’t thought of before.

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      Yeah, that’s the reason. Trans girls just often happen to be good at IT and leftist.

    • Lilith02@lemmy.world
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      I was going to say because Linux is a big community on lemmy. And as we all know, Linux users are all either trans or femboys. /s

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      I transitioned (ugh I hate that word)

      Slightly off topic but I’m curious, why do you hate that word and is there different wording that you’d prefer?

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        Not the person you’re replying to, but my guess is that “transition” implies some sort of inner journey, but transitioning is often really about changing how the world views you. You’re still the woman, man, or non-binary entity you always were, you’re just making changes to encourage/force everyone else to see you the same way.

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      Why do you think communism would allow you to thrive?

      Seriously, take a look at the history of communist countries and tell me which one you think you would have looked to exist in as a trans person 🤣

        • AgentOrangesicle@lemmy.world
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          Unregulated capitalism causes more harm than any other form of government not appropriately regulated. It’s worth more thought if you find yourself actively against it. We’ve been indoctrinated hard.

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            So far communism had only been tried in small groups (where tribal dynamics make it work) and in Soviet and Chinese authoritarian regimes

            Communism ≠ command economy

            Communism ≠ authoritarianism

            Communism = a broad selection of idiologies more or less agreeing with the idea “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”

            Several countries have such strong socialist policies in place that they could reasonably be called communist if we didn’t pretend that capitalism was opposite to and incompatible with communism. Capitalism is an excellent technology for extracting from each according to their ability.

            “Full communism” where you strive for perfect equality is probably less bad than “full capitalism” where you strive for full freedom of capital. Enough capitalism that you have the incentives it supplies and enough communism that those who won’t or can’t work are paid enough to live healthily and be in a position to seek work if they wish to, seems to be a good and reasonable position.

            I’ll answer the other part for the parent comment too

            If they fail to fit in to normal culture at work and are so unsuccessful at working, communism gives them a safety net.

            • They could have taken a risk and selected a job they expect to enjoy rather than one that will accept them if there’s a safety net
            • they could have selected a job they might enjoy rather than one calculated to pay enough to save for gender reassignment surgery if the state would pay for the surgery
            • they could have had the surgery earlier (which makes it better) if the state paid for it
            • Katana314@lemmy.world
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              It’d be fantastic evidence if we could actually look at documentation of how these small group trials have worked out. Honestly, it’s the first I’m hearing of them.

              I don’t understand the word “paid” appearing in your third bullet point. Wouldn’t a communistic society operate without money? Generally speaking, what would a doctor’s motivation be to get 11+ years of medical school + residencies, then perform a difficult operation on a patient that has potential for complications and blame? (In a capitalist society, the motivation would be “Helping people” plus “Money”, tied with hospital-level protections against malpractice suits, but I’m curious about your answer)

              • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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                Wouldn’t a communistic society operate without money?

                You could have communism with money. People still need a way to allocate resources and barter. I’m out of my depth here, as I’m a socialist but not a communist. However, I recognize that communism isn’t the bogeyman US propaganda (in schools, media, culture) taught me to think of it.

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            To give you the less complicated answer, communism is an economic system, not a form of government. Communism can and has been authoritarian, but it can also be libertarian or anarchistic. There’s nothing inherently authoritarian about an economy without money and without classes, based on need. It’s just the ideologies that want to (or say they want to) implement it in authoritarian ways that got to run the more famous socialist experiments. If you want to see how non-authoritarian communism worked, there are also historical examples of it, they’re just smaller and lasted less.

            Answering your question - in the period where most countries that called themselves communist existed, no capitalist countries accepted trans people either. But you are a capitalist nonetheless no? Huh, I wonder why.

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      Ahhh, yes, the good old anarchocommunism, also known as bigotry 😆

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    People that are naturally drawn to fediverse tend to be:

    • self-hosting enthusiasts excited to run their own social media platforms, which are tend to be big supporters of FOSS
    • left-leaning idealists who want to get away from big corps platforms
    • pirates (arrr)

    So it’s not that surprising to see plenty of anti-capitalism and transgender stuff here if you consider this demographics.

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    Because the Lemmy software was developed by communist-leaning developers and they have, prior to the reddit exodus, had the biggest communities. As for the transgender related content, the transgender community was one of the largest to leave reddit for Lemmy.

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      And if you’re transgender and your choices for typical ideology for cisgender community members are communist or fascist, the choice is generally going to be communist.

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          The particular “communists” in question on Lemmy are at worst naive idealists. They’re not calling for fundamental human rights being stripped away or genocide. They’re egalitarians – regardless of if you believe them to be misguided or not.

          At their core the “communists” on here are for the most part far better human beings than the fascists. I’d rather deal with their talk of “class warfare”, “eating the rich”, and hatred of capitalism than hearing about how queer people should be killed.

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            I think forty-seven people would disagree that mods are to blame. That said, I didn’t see your comment before it was removed, so downvotes are my only evidence.

            • Aux@lemmy.world
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              People disagreeing is not the same as mods pushing their agenda.

    • AgentOrangesicle@lemmy.world
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      I wonder why disparate and well-meaning communities would leave a social media platform full of outspoken fascists.

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      Communists leaning is putting it lightly.

      The creators of Lemmy are openly marxist-leninist That why one of the biggest instances was .ml

      As in M Marxist L Leninist

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    Because the people that flock to these platforms first are usually technically adept nerds and free thinkers.

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    The more transgender related posts are mostly because 196 a very large queer and especially trans friendly subreddit closed permanently and migrated wholesale to a instance called blahajzone. If you look at r/place right now you can tell the absence of 196 by the fact there are very few queer symbols on r/place compared to last year where 196 and associated subs had coordinated artworks and defense campaigns for their flags. I’m pretty sure last time they managed to take over the American flag and force it to move to another spot on the canvas. Now there are two small flags and nothing else.

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      Potato - potatoe, tomato - tomatoe.

      You see 196 as

      queer and especially trans friendly

      I see it as a garden of shitposting delights.

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        Right? I’m pretty straight as these things go but didn’t know I needed that much queer shitposting in my life.

        💩🌈 💩🌈 💩 🌈

    • Wilker@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      i can vouch for that as someone who participated this year. even maintaining a bunch of barcode flags on the canvas near the painting frame was difficult because of how little people we had.

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    There aren’t nearly as many right wingers and fascists as social media makes you believe. Speaking as a Mastodon instance admin, every single time we’ve had huge waves of bot and/or troll signups they’ve been very clearly right wing accounts (almost all had similar bios) that almost immediately started interacting with and boosting each other as well as harassing trans and queer people.

    The thing about the fediverse is that it can’t be manipulated the way centralized social media can. So what happens is that it gets handled very quickly. They get banned and their instances get defederated so all they can do is shout into the void. They’re not, nor have they ever been, the majority by any stretch of the imagination, and most people have absolutely no desire to hear what they have to say at all.

    On top of that, a huge number of them are grifters, and they won’t get any engagement here. They can’t get the kind of viral outrage they need because most people aren’t even seeing their posts.

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        Same problem in Germany (just worse) right now, but we should still remember that 12 or even 20% are far from the majority. They are very good at shouting so loud that you could think there are more, but there aren’t. They only have as much power as we give them.

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        25% of any population is pure lunatics.

        Another 25% are just dumb as rocks.

        Then you got about 35% of average decent people.

        Then you have 10 % of just awesome people.

        5% rich sociopaths

        10% other

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      I wonder how long it’s gonna take for the elites to start trying to pull a Conservapedia on the Fediverse? Cause, you know, all that engagement with non-conservative ideas can’t be organic, right? It’s clearly manipulated by the cabal or something, and we gotta have BaLaNcE.

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    in a word, intersectionality. you’re getting people who were already looking for an excuse to ditch reddit and twitter, and of that group, you’re selecting the ones with the most tech literacy. That tends to overlap people with progressive politics.

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          I think that a lot of people forget that collectively all the english as a first language countries added together dont add up to the population of china or india. So the algorithm which doesnt discriminate based on language just feeds us the aggregate.

          I try not to get annoyed at the tankies. If my government would fuck my life up and disappear my family for talking shit about them, Id probably play along too.

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            This is actually an interesting take.

            And, I almost tend to agree. They’re awfully tough to digest, even with empathy. Their tactics are… bad?

            It’s almost like an abused animal that you’d like to help. But, it’s such a threat that you kinda have to leave it be. Every time you try to feed it, it bites and scratches you,and everyone around you.

            At some point, despite the empathy, you just let it starve.

    • mateomaui@reddthat.com
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      1 year ago

      “extremist left” is a bit much to describe groups of people just trying to avoid harassment and hate on platforms clearly careening to the right, with essentially zero moderation, that officially respond to inquiries and concerns with automated poop.

      • Kaktus@lemmy.loomy.li
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        1 year ago

        What you describe is exactly what extremist left is. Antifa means nothing less then being against facism. Who isn’t except of facists?

      • Lols [they/them]@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        i dont see how they implied any if the above to be “extremist left”

        it seems like you read “extremist left”, assumed it was referring to you and then got upset about it referring to you

    • SynopticVision@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      This is the right answer. Of course marginalized groups tend to colonize new communities, because the big platforms, both because of their top-down structuring Nd because of the people who are on them, aren’t always welcoming.

      This is different from Voat tho. Voat was explicitly made to be a “free speech zone” i.e. a “let’s say nazi shit because nobody can censor us”-space. The fediverse’s idea is simply not to be dependent on centralised platforms, it says nothing about the content. If it happens to be left leaning, it’s because left leaning people tend to care more about stuff like right to privacy and centralisation.

      • jerry@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        It really seems like all “free speech” social sites are really just places for racism to flourish.

        • Lols [they/them]@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          the most universal and common limits to free speech that people will come across on social media in the west are usually an iteration of ‘don’t be an asshole’

          social media censorship is usually relatively lax on other fronts, and various sites will censor different things, whereas most every site will have basic enforcement of ‘don’t be an asshole’ rules

          as a result the most crying about free speech will come from folks who got told off for being an asshole and are entirely incapable of getting over it

          • MaxVerstappen@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I don’t think “free speech” and “don’t be an asshole” are incompatible. I do mostly agree with your take, there different flavors of asshole that are more tolerated than others though.

  • Noranydroptodrink@infosec.pub
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    1 year ago

    My assumption is that the bots, shills, astroturfers and other corporate interests haven’t arrived in sufficient quantities yet.

    It’s not that there’s more here, just the volume of noise out there is far greater and most of the content generated is for parties who gain no advantage from posing as part of either of those communities.