I feel like posts like these always fail to realize how fucked of a situation US ‘democracy’ is in where you must vote for one shitty candidate because the other is literally a fascist.
Like no actually some people have decided that the entire system is untenable - they no there’s a lesser of two evils, but they refuse to partake of an illegitimate system.
Biden is no fascist. He’s a neoliberal and a capitalist, but he’s not interested in turning America into a dictatorship. He’s all about the status quo. Every single POTUS since 1948 has supported Israel.
Because I’m sick of the implication that anyone is entitled to my vote, let alone this genocidal geriatric.
I’ll vote for Genocide Joe, but at least I’m going to be honest with myself and recognize I’m complicit in that evil to avoid a greater evil. The self-piety of 'blue no matter who’s Dems is disgusting.
I think you’re having an argument with yourself. I was only commenting on the OP talking about abstaining from the system. I’m not American. I’m not even saying who you should vote for. My only point was the concept of a “protest vote of no vote” is a completely invisible and impactless action, which you seem to agree with.
Yeah, but to me that seems worst. If the fascist comes to power by a slim a majority, it’s these ‘honorable’ citizens to blame. Voting is a simple act that holds tons of power. I’m not gonna say that one vote could change the tide, but the past two elections have been slim where key voters in certain states can certainly change the outcome of the election.
If you want to change the system, you don’t fix it by throwing your hands up and say ‘I don’t want to play anymore’. You fix it by voting and pestering the fuck out of your representatives to change the laws.
I don’t think that’s right. At least most of the blame should go onto the party that refuses to govern, rigs elections against anyone who isn’t their chosen meat puppet, and whose leader is supporting literal genocide. You can throw some of that shame down on the little people, but you’re really wasting your time if that’s where you’re punching.
Wanting to change the system? Just vote blue isn’t how you do it (I don’t know how to do it, but voting blue obviously hasn’t worked). The incentives are so weak for the dems to change, that I really don’t even know how you can justify that second paragraph as reasonable. Voting doesn’t make change, paying lobbyists does.
My cope is that maybe some of these elites stop losing their jobs when they fail election after election and we get someone new in there. But then these are Democrats, they don’t learn ANYTHING ever, so that’s all it is. Cope.
Nothing stops you from raising and talking about issues AND trying to use your vote to stop the fascist from getting into power. The “protest vote” is less effective than the discourse.
It’s important to point out, however, that liberals have been feeding leftists the lie that voting for democrats will result in moving to the left. It doesn’t, it just furthers liberalism.
As such, Leftists need to touch grass and actually organize on the ground, via Unionization and activism, to meaningfully get change.
Not voting demonstrates that our demographics are not reliable constituents. It pushes the Democrats further to the right as they seek moderate voters who actually show up to vote. If we want better candidates during an election year then we must be politically active in the four years leading up to the election.
Not everyone who stands up for democracy is a liberal.
Yeah, this is what people don’t get. This whole vote blue no matter who made way more sense in 2020.
But here in 2024 you can say with certainty, voting blue right now does not mean the US actually would fix anything during those 4 years.
I’m not American but it’s really weird to me that they had 4 years to persecute trump and now people are saying it’s up to voters… like voters gave you what you wanted and you wasted 4 years…
Sorry for bring up an old thread, but yeah… I’m super disappointed that trump hasn’t been convicted yet. I know the gears of justice turn slowly for a reason, but damn. Four years feels too slow. Sometimes it feels like the democratics intentionally shoot themselves in the foot to make it ‘fair’ fight. Or love tripping over their moral high ground.
I mean, our democracy has never been in great shape during my lifetime. Presidential elections have been about damage control for my whole life, and I’m probably just a little older than the average Lemmy user.
Shit sucks and it will get worse. But how quickly is still to be decided.
I feel like posts like these always fail to realize how fucked of a situation US ‘democracy’ is in where you must vote for one shitty candidate because the other is literally a fascist.
Well they’re both in favor of straight up genocide. It’s evolved from one literal facist to two.
“a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition”
Genocide is almost always committed by fascist regimes, but in and of itself it is unrelated to the political system/philosophy. You could theoretically have a perfect democracy where the people vote to genocide another culture and it would not suddenly make their political system fascistic.
America is currently fulfilling all of these conditions with a small mask on. Snowden and Assange and any figure that poses a threat gets thrown in jail. Guantanamo bay is still open.
The fact that Americans are in heavy denial about it doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
You can vote in Russia too by the way. And in China. Must be shining democracies
I feel like posts like these always fail to realize how fucked of a situation US ‘democracy’ is in where you must vote for one shitty candidate because the other is literally a fascist.
Like no actually some people have decided that the entire system is untenable - they no there’s a lesser of two evils, but they refuse to partake of an illegitimate system.
How do you tell a protest vote apart from voter apathy?
The answer is you can’t. If protest votes aren’t backed up by any other form or action, then what good does it do?
How do you tell a complicit fascist vote from a lesser of evils vote?
The answer is you can’t.
That’s not the issue here.
If you are living in a country where you get to choose only between two literal fascists, you should probably be doing more than just not voting.
Biden is no fascist. He’s a neoliberal and a capitalist, but he’s not interested in turning America into a dictatorship. He’s all about the status quo. Every single POTUS since 1948 has supported Israel.
Tell me where I said don’t vote
Why are you coming into the conversation all aggro when you aren’t even the person I was originally replying to?
You aligned yourself with someone who implied it’s pointless to vote by replying for them.
Because I’m sick of the implication that anyone is entitled to my vote, let alone this genocidal geriatric.
I’ll vote for Genocide Joe, but at least I’m going to be honest with myself and recognize I’m complicit in that evil to avoid a greater evil. The self-piety of 'blue no matter who’s Dems is disgusting.
I think you’re having an argument with yourself. I was only commenting on the OP talking about abstaining from the system. I’m not American. I’m not even saying who you should vote for. My only point was the concept of a “protest vote of no vote” is a completely invisible and impactless action, which you seem to agree with.
Logic, again. I thought we were arguing feelings. Now, I have to start over. /s
Yeah, but to me that seems worst. If the fascist comes to power by a slim a majority, it’s these ‘honorable’ citizens to blame. Voting is a simple act that holds tons of power. I’m not gonna say that one vote could change the tide, but the past two elections have been slim where key voters in certain states can certainly change the outcome of the election.
If you want to change the system, you don’t fix it by throwing your hands up and say ‘I don’t want to play anymore’. You fix it by voting and pestering the fuck out of your representatives to change the laws.
I don’t think that’s right. At least most of the blame should go onto the party that refuses to govern, rigs elections against anyone who isn’t their chosen meat puppet, and whose leader is supporting literal genocide. You can throw some of that shame down on the little people, but you’re really wasting your time if that’s where you’re punching.
Wanting to change the system? Just vote blue isn’t how you do it (I don’t know how to do it, but voting blue obviously hasn’t worked). The incentives are so weak for the dems to change, that I really don’t even know how you can justify that second paragraph as reasonable. Voting doesn’t make change, paying lobbyists does.
My cope is that maybe some of these elites stop losing their jobs when they fail election after election and we get someone new in there. But then these are Democrats, they don’t learn ANYTHING ever, so that’s all it is. Cope.
Nothing stops you from raising and talking about issues AND trying to use your vote to stop the fascist from getting into power. The “protest vote” is less effective than the discourse.
Yes.
It’s important to point out, however, that liberals have been feeding leftists the lie that voting for democrats will result in moving to the left. It doesn’t, it just furthers liberalism.
As such, Leftists need to touch grass and actually organize on the ground, via Unionization and activism, to meaningfully get change.
This is a lie.
Not voting demonstrates that our demographics are not reliable constituents. It pushes the Democrats further to the right as they seek moderate voters who actually show up to vote. If we want better candidates during an election year then we must be politically active in the four years leading up to the election.
Not everyone who stands up for democracy is a liberal.
Yeah, this is what people don’t get. This whole vote blue no matter who made way more sense in 2020.
But here in 2024 you can say with certainty, voting blue right now does not mean the US actually would fix anything during those 4 years.
I’m not American but it’s really weird to me that they had 4 years to persecute trump and now people are saying it’s up to voters… like voters gave you what you wanted and you wasted 4 years…
Sorry for bring up an old thread, but yeah… I’m super disappointed that trump hasn’t been convicted yet. I know the gears of justice turn slowly for a reason, but damn. Four years feels too slow. Sometimes it feels like the democratics intentionally shoot themselves in the foot to make it ‘fair’ fight. Or love tripping over their moral high ground.
And those people are short sighted morons
I mean, our democracy has never been in great shape during my lifetime. Presidential elections have been about damage control for my whole life, and I’m probably just a little older than the average Lemmy user.
Shit sucks and it will get worse. But how quickly is still to be decided.
Well they’re both in favor of straight up genocide. It’s evolved from one literal facist to two.
Both support genocide yes, though genocide is not the same as fascism even if the latter almost always does the former.
I’m not quite sure what the the definition of “fascism” is according to you but openly committing genocide does tend to land someone that label.
“a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition”
Genocide is almost always committed by fascist regimes, but in and of itself it is unrelated to the political system/philosophy. You could theoretically have a perfect democracy where the people vote to genocide another culture and it would not suddenly make their political system fascistic.
America is currently fulfilling all of these conditions with a small mask on. Snowden and Assange and any figure that poses a threat gets thrown in jail. Guantanamo bay is still open.
The fact that Americans are in heavy denial about it doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
You can vote in Russia too by the way. And in China. Must be shining democracies