• Andy@slrpnk.net
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    1 year ago

    This is bizarre and macabre.

    First, I want to say that I don’t care if they find tunnels in the hospital or not. Cutting patients off of electricity and medicine is not justified even if they find the massive bad-guy secret base that they say is underneath the hospital.

    But on top of that, if the tunnels aren’t there… what then? Do we get an apology? Do they bring back the patients?

    I’m shocked that they’re touring journalists and showing off rifles and BOOKS as evidence that this was a legitimate military target.

    I want a ceasefire. I want the hostages back. And I want Gaza to have the freedom to select leadership that represents them to engage in a peace process that gives them the right of movement, education, food, and safety.

      • Andy@slrpnk.net
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        1 year ago

        I really want to reiterate: it’s a waste of time to debate.

        We all already know that Hamas commits war crimes, and we also already know that none of these war crimes justify Israeli crimes against humanity. Debating whether Hamas used a given hospital to store a specific gun is like debating whether I owe you $100 or $200 for dinner last week when I already owe you $50,000. Who cares’s what the bill was last week? It’s a distraction.

        Here’s where we must insist on putting our attention: generations of occupation and displacement have been a disaster for Palestinians and liberal Israelis. It has only been a success for Jewish supremacists, and those people have been pulling the wool over American liberals for far, far, far too long. We need to get out of debates over any given hospital and demand new leadership in Israel that commits to ending the Israeli apartheid and expanding civil rights to the people living in the Palestinian territories illegally annexed by Israel.

      • naught@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        They did NOT confirm that. Can you provide a quote from this video where it says that?

          • naught@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            I… didn’t say that. I don’t doubt they did it, but you didn’t post a source and are making claims based on what, exactly? The BBC noted a cut in the video and that the scene could have been rearranged. Idk why you’re so up in arms.

            • palal@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              The BBC compared the original video to the one they correspondent took and noticed that the guns had been shuffled and a new gun had been added to the pile.

              If I didn’t link the full video, that’s my bad. I’m not sure how to link BBC broadcasts.

              • naught@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                Sure but to say they outright accused Israel of planting them is wrong. Good information is already hard enough to find. They are still pussyfooting around it and took a fairly neutral and evidence based view. That is all I’m saying

                • palal@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  A new gun was placed in the pile before it was shown to journalists.

                  How, exactly, do you define “planting” if that’s not it?

                  • naught@sh.itjust.works
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                    1 year ago

                    Why can’t that be an additional gun they found? Maybe it was rearranged for camera? The BBC segment did not make any hard claims just that the evidence was suspect. You can draw your own conclusions but you can’t say the BBC outright made this claim. Don’t trust the IDF blindly, but I have to approach reporting on the conflict this way to stay sane. Too many people spewing nonsense, misinformation, and propaganda (not u specifically).

      • 5BC2E7@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        The same bbc that reported about hamas tunnels years ago but is now referring to them as unconfirmed reports from israel?

        • palal@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          We know that there were tunnels and bunkers under al-Shifa. After all, the IDF built them. Whether they’re still in use today is very questionable: if you were Hamas, would you center your operation around something that your enemy knows every detail of?

          • 5BC2E7@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Well the bbc knew about hamas tunels in gaza but they don’t seem to be able to acknowledge it at present. You might be confusing facts. israel built the hospital. Hamas built the tunnels in gaza. Those are not even similar.

            It’s hard to say how I would behave if my worldview was tainted by beliefs that make someone think all jews should be exterminated.

            • palal@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Back in 1983, when Israel still ruled Gaza, they built a secure underground operating room and tunnel network beneath al-Shifa hospital – which is one among several reasons why Israeli security sources are so sure that there is a main Hamas command bunker in or around the large cement basement beneath the area of Building 2.

              As reported on by the pro-Israel publication The Tablet.

    • 5BC2E7@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Since US already agreed that hamas operated in the hospital and countries know it would not be a violation of international law in that case they only need to show evidence to gain public approval.

      • Andy@slrpnk.net
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        1 year ago

        I thoroughly disagree with the idea that Israel is cleared of wrongdoing if Hamas operated in the hospital.

        Israel has been in flagrant violation of international law for YEARS. Under international law, they’re obligated to provide healthcare and food to people living under occupation. Under international law, apartheid is illegal. Under international law, you’re not allowed to create conditions intended to make life unlivable for a targeted ethnic group. That’s one of the acts designated as genocide.

        This is why I keep saying that the discussion over this single hospital is a distraction. We need to keep our focus on the larger picture: millions of people across Israel-Palestine are denied basic rights: Palestinians in Gaza, Palestinians in the West Bank, Palestinians citizens of Israel, Israeli leftists, Mizrahi and Sphardaic Israeli Jews, Bedouins, immigrant workers… and that won’t end until we stop enabling it.

        • 5BC2E7@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          again you might disagree and repeat hamas propaganda points but international law says otherwise. it’s not a debate in that context. if you disagree you are basically saying that you have more moral clarity than the red cross. do you really think you have more moral clarity than them?

          • Andy@slrpnk.net
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            1 year ago

            Was this intended to respond to another comment? I don’t see how this connects to what I just said.

            • 5BC2E7@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I guess you are not ready to condemn the Red Cross so you feign confusion instead of acknowledging the point.