Israeli PM said to have turned down proposal in early talks and continues to take tough line

  • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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    1 year ago

    That Hamas did was abhorrent, as was the response of Israel.

    What motivation do Hamas have to just take the current occupation of Gaza and living in such a way? Genuinely curious.

    This just seems like nobody will win and everybody will suffer. For what?

    • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      What motivation do Hamas have to just take the current occupation of Gaza and living in such a way? Genuinely curious.

      Less lives lost, even in the long term. We won’t know what would have been, but there may well have been a diplomatic solution that got Gazan independence. But Hamas is built on violence is the answer.

      • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        Your answer is basically “suffer forever so nobody dies trying to stop the suffering”.

          • Grimy@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            That’s a bit silly. Sentencing a whole population to “suffer forever” isn’t caring for them.

            It’s like you didn’t even read what he said.

            • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Nah, I think people just didn’t get that I was saying the reason someone would view how Gaza was like before 10/7 as good, could only be because you only care about Israeli civilian deaths and not Palestinians.

              Explaining jokes kind of ruins them, but I guess in this case I overestimated people.

              • Grimy@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                So your comment was sarcastic? (which kind of seems obvious in hindsight, woops)

                I don’t really get your explanation to be honest and how what you said relates to that.

          • TheDankHold@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            In the West Bank, with no Hamas presence, Israeli settlers backed by the IDF come kill them and take their homes. The Israeli leadership doesn’t want a two state solution because extreme Zionists are in power.

              • TheDankHold@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                They went from occupation to siege. Not much improvement. I also wasn’t talking about Gaza so try to stay on topic.

                • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  I was taking about Gaza, since that’s where Hamas is primarily active, and that’s what the original comment was about. That’s why I was focusing on Gaza.

                  • TheDankHold@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    I’m talking about Palestinians in general because they all get brutalized and Hamas is used as justification when they are only in one territory. Hamas is used as a distraction from the fact that Israelis just want to steal all of Palestinians land.

                    Regardless, the occupation in Gaza turned into a blockade/siege, why do people say they occupation stopped like that meant anything in practical terms for the citizens on the ground.

            • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              They weren’t in power when Hamas came to power. Both sides have been pushing each other towards wanting to annihilate each other. But do you think a two state solution would minimize the suffering, but is not a feasible outcome?

              • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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                1 year ago

                A two-state solution was viable before Israel settled people in the middle of the west bank.

                As an intentional tactic of Zionist settlers, it is now impossible to have a defensible border.

                The only way forward now is to end apartheid and give full rights to the civilians living in the West Bank and Gaza.

                Zionists will claim this “destroys Israel” or other nonsense we heard from South African defenders of apartheid.

                • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  Didn’t Israel remove all Gaza settlements in 2005? Seems like they could do the same for the West Bank. And why would that be needed for an independent Gaza?

                  • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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                    1 year ago

                    Israeli Zionists would rather genocide Palestinians than give up their West Bank settlements.

                • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  I would also be in favor of ending racist government policies and giving full rights and protections to Palestinians, but that is really difficult with the terrorist actions.

              • TheDankHold@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                The Zionists I’m talking about funded and propped up Hamas. Likud is not younger than Hamas. You seem to have a very limited understanding of this.

                • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  Sure, maybe, you’re right I have only spent a few hours looking into the origin and spread of Hamas. But whether Hamas was funded by Zionists is irrelevant to whether their use of violence creates more or less suffering overall. In response to the original question, I think Hamas is causing much more harm and suffering to the people of Gaza by their excessive violence than diplomatic efforts likely would have.

                  • ???@lemmy.worldOP
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                    1 year ago

                    But why shift it on Hamas when it’s Israel breaking every humanitarian law? I’m asking seriously. Whatever response Hamas expected, I’m not sure it included bombing every single hospital or it’s vicinity in one night (which happened already)

          • ???@lemmy.worldOP
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            1 year ago

            For the time being, and prior to cutover 7th, the two-state solution was either perpetually on hold or completely unworkable because of Israel (in both cases). Will it help stop the stuffing from moving on? Maybe if it’s implemented properly, yes.