Jatinder Singh, from Smethwick, was summoned to serve as a juror at Birmingham Crown Court on Monday
But, he said, a security guard refused him entry at the court over his kirpan, the sword carried by all Sikhs.
The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) said Mr Singh was released from his duties as there was a surplus of required jurors.
Meanwhile, His Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) has apologised to Mr Singh.
Khalsa Sikhs carry the five Ks with them at all times, as a symbol of their faith.
These include Kesh or uncut hair; Kara which is a a steel bracelet; the Kanga, a wooden comb; Kacca or cotton underwear and the Kirpan
Mr Singh, who has served as president at Guru Nanak Gurdwara in Smethwick and as secretary general of the Sikh Council UK, said this was the second time he has been summoned for jury service, the first passing with no issue.
On this occasion, he entered the morning session with no problems, but when he tried to return to the court after lunch was pulled aside by a security guard and told he could not go in.
“The security guard said I could take [my kirpan] off and leave it with him and collect it at the end of the day,” he said.
"I felt like a child who has gone to school and taken something they shouldn’t and had it confiscated.
“To have that happen to me, I felt embarrassed, I felt discriminated against, I didn’t expect it to happen to me.”
He called for the (MoJ) to work with Sikh and other religious organisations to create easily accessible guidelines that can be provided to staff.
Dabinderjit Singh, the principal adviser to the Sikh Federation UK said it had written to Justice Minister Alex Chalk asking him to condemn the treatment of Mr Singh.
The MoJ said members of the Sikh community wishing to enter a court building could bring in a Kirpan which was not more than six inches long (15cm) and with a blade no more than five inches (12cm) in length - which Mr Singh said his was.
A spokesperson for HMCTS added: “We have apologised to Mr Singh for any distress caused and have reminded our contracted security officers of the correct steps to take to prevent this incident from happening again.”
“This is my emotional support sword”
I mean Sikhs have a special dispensation in law explicitly to carry the kirpan to court. It does suck for someone to have a specific law saying “you can definitely do this in this place” and have a rent-a-cop claim his personal decision is more important than the law of the country and a lifetime of religion and culture.
Especially as most kids learn about the 5 K of Sikhism in school.
We didn’t learn about Sikhism in school (actually UK here)
I’ve been out of education (both as a student and educator) for nearly a decade now, but a quick Google tells me that NATRE, AREIAC, AULRE, SACRE and the REC all recommend education on Christianity, Baha’iism, Hinduism, Jainism, Judaism, Islam, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, and Humanism but YMMV by teacher, school, LEA, your personal attendance etc.
Where do kids learn about Sikhism in school? Definitely not here in the states.
I would assume they are talking about UK schools, because that is where the event in the article occurred.
in RE class (religious education)
EDIT: just noticed you said “here in the states” in “UnitedKingdom” — did they undo the revolution, finally?
We are definitely made aware of it in school, though not in-depth
Not at my school we weren’t.
This would have been around 2008 for me, secondary school
I’m slightly older than you.
It’s actually an important part of their religious and cultural practices, and according to the article it appears that this man did follow the restrictions placed on these ceremonial blades by the court, so he should not have been denied entry.
It’s actually an important part of their religious and cultural practices
that should -imho- never be relevant. Religions shouldn’t have any more legal meaning than a book club. but here we are.
I tend to agree, but the place to start isn’t by targeting minority religions.
just wait until we invent actual lightsabers and the jedi start showing up
The younglings: “Here we go again!”
Seinfeld slap bass
But that minority religion is the only one presenting the problem…
TIL that adhering to the court’s own policy is “causing a problem.” Sure, let’s just let officials make up rules on the fly instead of applying their own policies fairly. Surely that won’t cause any further problems.
First, I said “presenting the problem”, not “causing a problem”.
Second, I didn’t say that rules should be made up on the spot. But it should have been dealt with originally instead of letting it get to this point. Rolling over for a single religion is the antithesis of the separation of church and state, regardless of how much of a minority it is.
Rolling over for a single religion
Lmao this is so unhinged and dramatic. Kirpans are generally dull-bladed and less threatening than a sharp pen or pencil. The only religion I see public officials rolling over for is Christianity.
Edit: Also, just change “causing” to “presenting” in my last comment, if you prefer. Either way, it serves to highlight your own folly.
“What task has it been trained to help you with?”
So you don’t know what the kirpan is for or what it symbolizes.
Way to advertise your ignorance like some maga chud screaming “woke”.
I thought it was pretyt well understood that Sikhs carry these. I’m surprised the security guard hadn’t been properly briefed.
Maybe in the UK, as an American I didn’t even know Sikhs existed until I was 20 and met one while trying to move to a city. I didn’t even know about the 5 Ks until today at 30, I thought the turban and suit/vest thing they wear were then major religious adornments. Then again the only Sikh I see regularly is the Canadian politician Jagmeet Singh
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Not in the US they don’t
Glances at the name of the community. I mean, possibly not in Burkina Faso, either.
This is an interesting problem. On the one hand, the rules were clearly defined and he followed them. On the other, I feel that religious exemptions are a slippery slope that could enable poor behavior. Though his behavior was not poor, others could use that as an opportunity to act poorly.
Ideally I’d love a policy that meets our needs when applied uniformly, but in this case I don’t see an alternative to individual review of religious exemption requests. But who reviews the reviewers? It is a laborious bootstrap problem and would ultimately need a certifying body like we have NIST for measurement standards.
MFW Americans realise this is how they get to carry guns into schools.
The Mandalorians are going to have a field day with this one
It is birmingham. You can’t be too careful :P
“BIRMINGHAM IS A FUCKING SHITHOLE! I HATE THE FUCKING PLACE!” - Danny G
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A Sikh man said he felt “embarrassed and discriminated against” after being prevented from taking part in jury service due to his religious sword.
These include Kesh or uncut hair; Kara which is a a steel bracelet; the Kanga, a wooden comb; Kacca or cotton underwear and the Kirpan
Mr Singh, who has served as president at Guru Nanak Gurdwara in Smethwick and as secretary general of the Sikh Council UK, said this was the second time he has been summoned for jury service, the first passing with no issue.
On this occasion, he entered the morning session with no problems, but when he tried to return to the court after lunch was pulled aside by a security guard and told he could not go in.
He called for the (MoJ) to work with Sikh and other religious organisations to create easily accessible guidelines that can be provided to staff.
A spokesperson for HMCTS added: “We have apologised to Mr Singh for any distress caused and have reminded our contracted security officers of the correct steps to take to prevent this incident from happening again.”
The original article contains 430 words, the summary contains 185 words. Saved 57%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Attacking
I find them looking cool.
Also, kinda hard to use without a proper training. I don’t know if Sikhs go through it or mostly just carry it. Having a knife at all times sound based to me.
Damn, reddit atheists out in full force huh? Out of all the religions to mock, make fun of, or throw a temper tantrum about, Sikhism should be at the bottom of the list. My understanding is that their religion literally does its best to avoid conflict with other religions and beliefs, including atheism, as it sees all people who seek the Absolute Truth to be valid.
I’m an atheist. I like Sikhs. I’ve met a few in my life and they have seemed to be excellent people. They were kind, interested in the world around them, and unlike most religious people they never tried to push their beliefs. Their outfit is kinda rad too, what with the turban and sword and all. I’ll take them over any of the Abrahamic faiths any day.
Amazing beards, too.
To be clear, I’m not referring to all atheists; I’m talking about the reddit-style ones that seem to take offense at any and all religions and get angry when anyone asks for any kind of exemption or allowance based on their religion (aka, anti-theists).
This isn’t reddit
A Sikh with a kirpan is less of a threat than a Christian with a Bible
Didn’t you hear? They’re all supremely enlightened and know the absolute truth:
- All religions are bad and wrong and stupid
- No religion teaches peace or love
- Every atheist is smarter and superior to anyone with faith
- Every person who believes in anything is wasting their life
If you need religion to teach you peace or love then you are truly lost.
What an idiot. He should feel ashamed for himself but instead he feels “discriminated against”.
I don’t think so. Simply, because there is an actual exception for this:
The MoJ said members of the Sikh community wishing to enter a court building could bring in a Kirpan which was not more than six inches long (15cm) and with a blade no more than five inches (12cm) in length - which Mr Singh said his was.
I think the security guard made a mistake there.
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Do you think Sikhs across the world all walk around with “symbolic” blades just because they’re a sign of their religion?
Yes, I do.
But even if it was for clout, it wouldn’t change anything about it being allowed.
You can say that you don’t think religions should have excemptions, but that’s another topic. As of this incident the excemption exists and he should be able to carry a blade according to the restrictions in there.
Yes, I do.
Then you’re stupid.
But even if it was for clout, it wouldn’t change anything about it being allowed.
You can say that you don’t think religions should have excemptions, but that’s another topic. As of this incident the excemption exists and he should be able to carry a blade according to the restrictions in there.
The job of every guard is to look out for threats. If the guard feels it is in the interest of everyone’s safety that a participant removes a literal weapon from their person before entering a place of importance, it is completely reasonable on his behalf. That the participant is feeling sentimental about it is not the guard’s fault and neither should it be.
The job of every guard is to look out for threats.
And this “threat” has already had an exception written into the Security staffing standards. So, despite what that individual thinks, the item is not a security threat and the staff member is in the wrong.
Apologies have been made, and training hopefully improved.
The job of every guard is to look out for threats.
The job of the security guard is also to understand UK law.
Section 139(5) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 allows the wearing of the kirpan for religious reasons. The Offensive Weapons Act 2019 reaffirms the right of the Sikh community to possess and supply kirpans. Section 47 of the Act provides new defences for some articles such as the kirpan and ‘katar’ (Sikh ceremonial weapon) to enable possession in private for religious reasons and to enable them to be presented.
Unless the guy was waving it about, the security guard was simply wrong - which is why an apology was issued.
Then you’re stupid.
Classy./
It does sound like some ‘sovereign citizen’ bollocks
“Aha! You say I’m not allowed a weapon in a courtroom, yet I have on my person 5 items beginning with the letter K. Hence I’m allowed a knife of up to 5 inches actually Mr security guard”
Difference being of course, that the exception actual exists in current rules opposed to most of the wank sovereign citizens make up.
Like, he didn’t make it up on the spot, did he.
Difference being of course, that the exception actual exists in current rules
which in itself is simply ridiculous
Except, of course it is codified into English law, and therefore its the almost exact opposite of ‘sov cit bollocks’
Yes, yes they absolutely do. As a matter of fact, their religious blades regularly benefit from exceptions on bladed weapons bans, for exemple Canadian flights allow someone to board with a Kirpan, and they’re allowed on school grounds in multiple countries
How many Sikhs do you even know in real life? Where have you been to in Punjab?
Have you ever been to Britain?
Yeah, of course what the fuck?
A kirpan is a mandatory Sikh article of faith. It is carried by Amritdhari (initiated) Sikhs at all times. The word “kirpan” comes from two Punjabi words: ‘Kirpa’ means an act of kindness, a favor; and ‘Aan’ means honor and self- respect. • A kirpan resembles a knife or sword.
Took about 10 seconds to google.
Yes indeed, random Google text is more reliable than someone who literally lives in Punjab 🤦♂️
What does living in the Punjab have to do with your knowledge of English law?
It’s hardly random and nobody cares where you live. You don’t speak for all Sikhs, and you’re clearly just a bigot anyway.
I think where the symbolic blade has been specifically legislated into UK law, yes UK law should pertain.
Remove the chowder from your head and actually read the article…
