This is genocide by the book. After almost 2 decades of being kept poor & isolated, comes in an ultra modern army to do exactly what?
I’m German and anti Hamas.
Where’s the fight against Hamas taking place, btw? There should be footage of destroyed Hamas stuff or some dead Hamas Soldiers to be seen, or am i missing something?
Israel has been bombarding for days
Where do you think Hamas is hiding???
“Hiding” doesn’t justify killing civilians.
Above commenter asked where the fight with Hamas is taking place.
But that’s not fighting, that’s exterminating.
How would you be able to tell the difference between a dead hamas soldier and a dead civilian? They don’t carry weapons all the time, you know, and terrorist organizations don’t exactly wear uniforms.
I think fighting terrorism and warning citizens before bombing is not genocide. Telling citizens they are, in fact, should not run (hamas does that), is closer to genocide.
Actual process of getting rid of terrorists is not exactly something anyone should require to trust someone, but you can check a lot of videos they publish of destroying specific buildings in Gaza.
Be sure to also check the videos of Palestinians killing innocents left and right in Israel. They recorded those themselves.
Bear with me a bit, if you will. There’s a sharp point, at least I think so.
If you’ve never lived on the ground for a disaster like a hurricane or tornado, it’s worse than any picture or video can depict. I wept in the street, on my knees, the morning after Hurricane Ivan. It was 10AM, a cool, leafless autumn morning, but it had been summer 12-hours earlier. 10 of those hours was darkness and that nonstop goddamned freight train sound.
“My god, what happened to my new city?” Had no notion of the blast radius, all I could see was what I could see. Watched the blue fireworks of exploding transformers all night. Still didn’t hit me. Thinking I was on my own, I wept a bit when the Guard rolled in. “We’re getting help?! What? Why? How?”
After living though Ivan, I cried my eyes out seeing what happened to my neighbors in southern Mississippi after Katrina. And then I went and saw for myself. My poor words cannot do justice.
My father-in-law, after picking up a pair of Bronze Stars in Iraq, came home and fought his way through to save those people. They sawed fucking houses in half to open the roads. This old white man was so fond of his memories, showing us pictures of the little black kids they gave salvaged Walmart bikes to. He looked like a proud papa. And then he disintegrated.
He was fine after Iraq, held it together. His Katrina PTSD led him to leave his wife of 32-years and ignore his only child, blew his family apart.
And here’s the tip of the spear:
This is an order of magnitude worse. This isn’t some blameless natural disaster. These aren’t first-world country folks, cranking up the gennies, sharing what they got with anyone in need, pulling together in the face of tragedy. This is a modern nation state purposefully and with malice aforethought conducting genocide on a weaker neighbor. National Guard ain’t rolling in for these folks. They’re truly on their own.
Damn bro I feel that. Thanks for sharing 😔
Way to make this about you
I took it to be them anchoring in their own experiences and trying to use those experiences as a way to help others understand even 1/10 of what the Gazans are going through. Felt like it was coming from a place of support and empathy. I can see your interpretation too, though.
Way to make this about you
You’re really, really stupid if that’s what you got from it.
It’s illegal to share experiences now?
They shared theirs so you can have context on how bad the situation is on gaza. Chill on your projections bro.
The single downvote on each of the replies are you, aren’t they?
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I’m curious how you think Israel should respond after 1400 mostly civilians are killed and a couple hundred hostages taken by the government of the territory next to them.
Not blow up the homes and businesses of a bunch of random civilians who had nothing to do with that?
You said what you wouldn’t do. But you didn’t actually answer the question. What would you do?
Supposedly they have one of the most effective intelligence services in the world.
Maybe utilize them to find out where the enemy and hostages actually are, and use smaller, more surgical strikes to extract the hostages and eliminate hostile leadership.
You know, instead of indiscriminately bombing civilians.
What would you do? You seem to be defending the murder of random civilians, or at least defensive of the fact that I don’t approve of it, so do you find the current strategy to be acceptable?
Are you unaware of what intelligence services and special forces units are supposed to do? Because if you are aware, then you seem kinda supportive of massive and clearly intentional civilian casualties.
You are apparently unaware of what intelligence services and special forces do. This isn’t an episode of 24. They aren’t using their spy satellites and increasing resolution. And spending special forces into a densely populated area where they would be quickly observed and attacked would just cause them to be killed. Here you can check out about the battle of Mogadishu.
I’m not in support of civilian casualties. I am not in support of war. But when war is brought to you, you cannot just ignore it. Life isn’t a video game. And when you are in charge, every decision could alter the outcome. Special forces cannot put up their hoods and walk with their heads down to disappear into the crowd like this is Assassin’s creed. Special forces work when they are not suspecting you, and when there is a possibility for small precise attacks making major changes.
There is no question that Israel aims to completely remove Gaza’s ability to attack Israel for a long time. Everything else is people arguing over the level of malice. Israel has tried different solutions to stopping attacks. And certainly some people in power use the instability to remain in power on both sides. But, historically, that has not been the majority of Israelis or the government there. The situation after they left Gaza actually put more of those people into power (such as Bibi, who absolutely called what would happen in Gaza… as much as I hate to admit it).
Here is what we know. A big olive branch was rejected and exploited. Waiting it out and dealing with attacks on an individual basis, setting up security precautions, and diplomacy with outside Arab countries has so far failed and allowed for the third biggest terrorist attack in history. They are using what is militarily called rapid dominance. This includes a strong display of force that demoralizes and destabilizes an enemies ability to fight. It aims to reduce the casualties of the ground forces that come after and to shorten the length of the war overall. And that second part is also important here. Israel is a small country. They might be much more advanced, but they still have to deal with all of the same problems as any army concerning morale and resources. What happens if they instead lead with a ground force, but the war drags on and civilians are still dying, but this time it is because wars dragging on also destabilize and cause issues. On top of that, your military is now much weaker and exhausted. And you still have countries outside of Palestine that want to destroy you too.
But all you can see is what is happening. You aren’t actually thinking about the results of alternatives.
If you took and killed my family due to some bullshit ideology, whatever it was, either side, I would nuke you and everyone who shared your ideology without a second thought. So let’s stop trying to act virtuous and just understand why both sides are doing what they’re doing…but one is sure to lose.
And now you know why it’s Israel’s fault that so many people join Hamas. Congrats.
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So again, this is what you wouldn’t do. What would you do? Do you understand the question? Not sure if I’m being clear enough here. It seems everyone is an expert on the situation in Israel and Palestine until you ask for specifics. So I’m specifically asking What would you do if you were in charge of Israel at the moment?
Everytime I’ve asked this to someone that’s taken a hardline stance I’m met with either “it’s a complex issue” or just completely ignoring the question 😂
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So you’re calling for ethnic cleansing then?
Also I don’t downvote anyone really. And I’m kbin so I doubt it’d show up if I did.
Hey there, I just joined this conversation. BUT WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
I’m curious how the tragic death of 1400 civilians justifies this genocide against an entire ethnic group…
There are many ways to address this problem, without unending airstrikes, and starving out 2 million people.
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Invite the UN to come in and secure Gaza militarily
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Provide free passage from the West Bank to Gaza or Gaza to the West Bank. Including peacekeeping soldiers from the “less radical” Palestinian government…
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Allow civilians to move to the West Bank, and then completely level Gaza. After all the civilians leave. I’m sure it wouldn’t be popular, but it would save lives
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Long-term, create economic diplomacy, intertwine the economies so there isn’t such a have have not disparity. Make people think the future is going to be better. Together.
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Longer term, if the countries can’t be split, start integrating the populations. South African style apartheid truth and reconciliation on both sides, and get the populations to integrate, if they can’t be separate countries they have to learn to live together.
It wasn’t “tragic deaths”. Hamas terrorists shot indiscriminately on people on a music festival and took about 200 people hostage. It’s murder and terrorism. You forgot one important step 0: honesty from both sides and a stop of propaganda and people cuddling terrorists.
Okay. So the murder and terrorism of 1400 people justifies the genocide of an ethnicity? I just want to understand where you draw the line. Because apparently we’re already past the genocide line and I want to know where that was
If Israel wants genocide why didn’t they do it already? Why do they let Palestinians live inside of Israel and don’t attack the Westbank with bombs as well?
Because they want an excuse to do it in the eyes of the international community and the less extreme of their own population. So they systematically oppressed the Palestinian population, which of course bred terrorism. They then made it more difficult for a peaceful Palestinian government as well, which made Hamas more powerful.
They didn’t listen to the warnings from Egypt that this attack was coming. Now they have the excuse they were waiting for to genocide the Palestinians.
If your country was being systematically dismantled by a much wealthier more powerful neighbour do you really think that you wouldn’t want to lash out? What Hamas did was terrible but it was a result of the long running actions of Israel
Following your rhetoric Israelis who are predominantly Jewish and Israel which was supposed to be the one safe place for Jews, Israel should have every right to defend themselves. Since they were oppressed and killed since ancient times.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
According to the UN definition they are already doing it.
You still haven’t answered the core question though, at what point is genocide okay? Where’s the line? Because I’m having trouble reading all the rhetoric, especially some of your posts, and understanding where a population has a right to exist, and when they don’t.
The UN definition:
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group
Following this definition, Hamas wants to commit genocide and Israel doesn’t. So tell me why do you think genocide is okay when it is targeting Israelis?
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Over 1000 children alone have been brutally murdered by the terrorist nation of Israel since they declared this war only a few days ago.
They’re doing to Palestine what the Nazis did to them, only this time the world is watching and not even looking away. They’re encouraging it, and even sending in resources to help them do it, and punishing people for even speaking out against it.
They don’t deserve to even mention Auschwitz after this. There are plenty of Jews out there who are opposed to it whose sympathies about WWII will forever stay with us. But not these… Copycats.
The Holocaust involved the Nazis gathering up whole populations, unprovoked, and sending them to ghettos, concentration camps, and then extermination camps. While the world population has nearly quadrupled since WW2, the Jewish population only just reached their pre-holocaust levels recently. They starved them, worked them to death, tortured and experimented on them, and then tried to murder the rest en masse with gas.
Gaza certainly has a blockade. And I do not approve of everything that Israel does, even when I can understand the rationale. But let us be absolutely clear. That blockade is absolutely less controlled than even the ghettos of Warsaw. Not to mention, they share a border with an entirely different country with whom they have been free to form diplomatic relations with and could have had freedom of movement, supplies, etc through for 18 years now. Longer, really but I’ll use the minimum value. But they haven’t even done that. Why? Because the group from Hamas formed also performed terrorism in Egypt.
At no point has any of this been unprovoked. At no point has this looked anything like Auschwitz. I have repeatedly seen the population density of Gaza brought up (6,507/km2). The Warsaw ghetto had 450,000 people in 3 km2. So in case you don’t like math, that’s about 150,000/km2.
Auschwitz, which apparently I shouldn’t mention but I’m going to, had at least 1.3 million prisoners. At least 1.1 million were killed. That was one camp out of several.
The situation in Gaza is terrible and sad. But you don’t get say it is the same as the Holocaust. That Israel is doing the same thing. This isn’t unprovoked. Even now, they are holding hostages. They’ve continued to fire rockets. They have dug up their own infrastructure to make rockets. At no point have they even tried to be self sufficient. Nor have they tried… not attacking Israel. Attacking Israel (actually, attacking the Jews more generally according to the charter), establishing an Islamic state in the entire region and removing Israel from the map. That’s the platform on which Hamas was elected. Show me where the Jews of Europe took over Poland and attacked Germany. Show me where Germany dealt with those attacks for decades, including providing utilities and healthcare to Poland during that time.
I will not attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. I will assume you are simply an uneducated fool who wants to push a narrative, rather than a malicious antisemite. The un-cited number of deaths (I’m guessing the only source you’ll find is the Hamas government… the one that said over 500 died after Israel bombed a hospital a couple days back) that you stated don’t even compare to just the Warsaw Ghetto. The death toll for the entire conflict in Israel and Palestine don’t even compare to just the deaths in the Warsaw Ghetto. The situation is entirely different. Your statement is absolutely disgusting and you should feel ashamed. You can argue and oppose Israel’s tactics. You can even argue that this fits some definitions of ethnic cleansing if you want. But you don’t get to say what you said without being an absolutely disgusting person.
So your whole reasoning is that because Jewish people have been oppressed in the past give them a carte blanche to oppress other people?
Didn’t you think that Hamas is in power because of the ill treatment and oppression of the Palestinians?
Do you think that the Nazi party would come into force if it wasn’t the Versailles treaty, that put the German people into a corner, with hyperinflation and no hope in sight. Can’t you see the parallels?
When did violence have given birth to something good?
Where did I say anything about them having carte blanche to oppress? Where did I say their oppression gave them any rights? I didn’t. I said that why9 was disgusting for what they said and explained why.
And no. I do not think Hamas is only in power due to things Israel has done. Beyond existing. The Muslim brotherhood existed before Israel. They have spring up in most countries that have a major Muslim population as Islamic extremists. They want a unified Muslim state under Sharia law. Even if Israel did not exist, Hamas would likely still exist in the region in some form telling the ruling powers they aren’t Islamic enough. And killing people. Gay people. Women who want to have equal rights. Atheists. People who decide they don’t want to be Muslim. World leaders who sign peace treaties.
Yeah it’s pretty accepted now that the harsh punishments post WWI created the perfect environment for ww2. But it is also accepted that appeasement to Germany to prevent ww2 was a really bad idea as well. Parallels only go so far. I was not drawing a parallel in my above comment. I was explaining how very different the Holocaust was from the Palestinian territories.
Umm violence ended pretty much every war. Civil war and slavery and all that (in the U.S.). WW2 (that ending was real violent). Non-violence is definitely preferable, but it isn’t always an option.
It’s a fair question folks. Stop with the downvotes. Answer it, or don’t.
He is just being pedantic and downright ignoring the people that actually replied to his question. So he is clearly not arguing in good faith. Downvote is more than justified
How am I being pedantic, and I’ve responded to almost everyone who actually said what they would do.
By killing more than 4000 civilians, causing a humanitarian crisis on purpose, carpet bombing residential neighbourhoods and displacing hundreds of thousands of people.
So in what world that’s fair?
Jokes on them. I’m on kbin so I don’t even see the downvotes.
So brave
Can someone give me the straight talk on why western countries, who usually at least try to look like they have the moral high ground, are falling all over themselves in support of Israel?
What is the non-conspiracy nutter reason why the US feels the need to provide billions of dollars in support to Israel?
Clearly actions on both sides are reprehensible, some more-so than others. There’s no goodies and baddies here. There’s aggressors, innocents, and victims on all sides.
Because Israel is ultimately a problem created by western nations like the UK and US, have more similar culture to the west and are their strategic partner for the area whereas the arab nations are traditionally backed by Russia. So they basically HAVE to give them unconditional support to Israel or lose their influence on the region.
I’ve done some reading and listening since I asked this question and I think that this is the correct answer.
They’re the only non-muslim country in the middle-east, and therefore our closest ideological partner, and therefore our best strategic partner.
War is about resources. USA and Britain don’t give a shit about giving the land (that they stole from Palestinians) to Jewish people. Israel and Saudi Arabia are their only ways to project power in the region to have leverage against countries with more oil.
There’s the historic precedent that people have already discussed here.
There’s the very effective Israeli lobby, which has integrated itself into many different governments.
There’s the fact that Israel is pro-western, in the Middle East, so they serve Western interests. They can be the foil for Western influence in the Middle East, without directly implicating the West. Need a weapon site bombed in Iran? Israel will do it. This is probably the biggest reason.
The country of Israel has integrated itself into the Western global intelligence Network, especially in terms of special operations, and special intelligence gathering tools, and a weapon supplier for missile defense, drone defense etc. For all intents and purposes their military ally for the west.
The West has a bias against Muslims, and Islam. Not necessarily a deliberate bias, but there is a bias. There is a reluctance for full trust. Israel is a religious country, based on Judaism, which makes them more palatable for Western people to think about.
All that being said, is Western support guaranteed? No. At the international level real politic is extremely fickle, you have to continue to be useful. If another country with better trade-off showed up in the region, it’s very likely they would also receive this Western appreciation.
Hamas are terrorists and Western governments support combatting them. Hamas hides behind civilians who tragically are the victims of the war Hamas started this time
That’s not really an answer though - obviously there’s a question of degree.
If there were 20,000 terrorists with access to advanced weaponry then a few hundred civilian casualties is probably acceptable. If there’s 100 terrorists with access to some home made rockets then a few thousand civilian casualties probably isn’t acceptable.
Is the present campaign against Gaza with the mode of engagement by Israel really the surest path to peace with the least civilian casualties? Hard to believe given that there was a stale mate just a few weeks ago.
Besides which, you can’t kill all the terrorists, that’s not how extremism works.
Of course it’s an answer.
Ok, well it doesn’t address the question, at all.
Of course it does. Fighting terrorism gives the perception of moral high ground
Israel is creating a humanitarian crisis. If you’re getting the perception of moral high ground I don’t really know what to say to you.
Palestine doesn’t have an army, they’re not allowed to.
You said it. Actions of one side are more reprehensible than of the other. In fact, much more reprehensible from what I see.
One side: “We understand you have terrorists, but it’s not our responsibility to help you with it because we value lives of our people. We are going to help you with basic supplies like water, electricity, internet etc., and protect ourselves with the iron dome. It all costs a lot but lives are really what matters.”
Another side: “Our objective will not be completed until your country and citizens stop existing. We were elected having this objective by our people. We will teach our children that this is also their objective. We will build rockets. We will launch them at you even if some of them may not reach your territory. We will launch them from civillian buildings because we know you care about lives of civillians. You will think twice before launching anything back, and when you do, you will be blamed by the world for killing innocents. We will kill as many of your civilians as we can, by our hands. We will brake their limbs and hold them hostages, even if they are the citizens of other countries. And when you retaliate, the world will blame you for what you have done. The world must understand that by killing your people we fight for our future, and give us everything we need. This will be glorious, and you will die, and we will prosper, and the world will forget we are the killers, and remember you as killers. We will throw every resource we have for that to happen, be it the money we got as a humanitarian aid for our citizens or
baby dolls that should be indistinguishable from dead children with some mosaic. Oops we forgot the mosaic.You didnt see it. You are the killers.”Ignoring Jewish settlers in the West Bank, Gaza quite literally being a ghetto full of people forced off their land, the military checkpoints, the complete imbalance of deaths and suffering between the two sides.
As reprehensible as the violence is on both sides, Israel/Palestine is an apartheid state and Palestinians suffer far more than just from the effects of violence.
What exact violence? Israel provides Gaza with stuff they need. Including pipes for the water construction, that instead are used to build rockets.
Palestinians are doing terrorism, whether they understand it or not. Israel reacts to terrorism. Do you not agree that a country should react to acts of terrorism?
They absolutely should respond to acts of violent terrorism, and I didn’t suggest they don’t. However it’s far from one sided.
The Gaza strip is an open air prison for over 2 million people, who can’t even access, or travel for proper healthcare, where food and water are insecure or poorly available. Where you can’t leave by either land or sea. Where even if you were one of the >1 million young people living there who managed to leave you’d be poor and uneducated.
But maybe you’re not in Gaza. Maybe you’re one of the Palestinians who live in the west bank can can barely travel without huge impediments, or may see your house demolished to make way for Israeli settlers, in what amounts to an apartheid system, widely condemned internationally by human rights organisations.
Hamas are absolutely disgusting, and the terrorist attack on Israel should be rightly condemned. But if you think Israel are the good guys here, and this is a black and white, good and evil situation you’re not paying attention.
So they are responding, there is no problem with that.
Though I find it amusing that so much effort goes into outlining the hurdles of Palestinians only.
If you want to promote better lives for Palestinians, then maybe you should’ve started with themselves, to let them know they shouldn’t have elected terrorists their leaders. Maybe Palestinians would understand that doing terrorism will not give them any good future?
Do you not agree that a country should react to acts of terrorism?
You’re implying a false dichotomy, as though in response to a terrorist attack you either lie down and accept further attacks, or grind gaza into the dust.
No, I’m not. Grinding Giza to the dust is not what’s being done. Hamas contribute more by firing uncontrollable missiles that also tend to fall in Gaza.
But you are implying a reality where every single sane person should ignore the existence and terrorism of hamas and Palestinians. Probably.
Grinding Giza to the dust is not what’s being done.
Hyperbole on my part, but not excessive given the post we’re discussing this under.
Hamas contribute more by firing uncontrollable missiles that also tend to fall in Gaza.
Patently false. I’ll refer you again to the pictures in this article.
But you are implying a reality where every single sane person should ignore the existence and terrorism of hamas and Palestinians.
This is the false dichotomy I referred to in my last comment. Perhaps you should look it up. We can acknowledge the existence of terrorism and respond appropriately without causing a humanitarian crisis.
This is classic American “fucked around and found out” diplomacy. Like a child with a hammer.
We can … respond appropriately without causing a humanitarian crisis.
Yeah kindly explain how exactly maybe?
If hamas wouldn’t use Palestinians as a shield there would be no crisis.
Hmm… it seems like the disparity of “badness” you describe would’ve been true a few months ago, but no longer is?
Most of what you’ve said about Palestinians also describes israel now? Seems that way anyway.
If we were looking for the path to peace with the least casualties, this doesn’t seem like it.
Can you give any example of concrete case where Israel did anything comparable to what hamas did at October 7th?
No. I didn’t say nor imply that I could. I’m not saying they’re both as bad as each other. I’m saying that a humanitarian crisis is unfolding, and western nations are standing in support.
Support of what? Palestinians will get humanitarian aid either way. Problem is that they (well, hamas) will try to use it to build more rockets, not to improve their lives.
In support of Israel while they cause a humanitarian crisis.
And what exactly Palestinians have caused by slaughtering hundreds of civillians on October 7th? Nothing? They are innocent and should be left alone?
Most of what you’ve said about Palestinians also describes israel now? Seems that way anyway.
The
.deis showing.I’m from Australia.
Then you should be practical enough to realize that almost none of what was said about Palestinians in that statement describes Israel now.
Ok mate. Believe it or not, I’m not looking for an argument about who is most awful between Palestinians and Israelis.
My question is, why the world feels the need to take sides in this conflict rather than simply condemning the violence perpetrated by both sides.
The hatred violence, and wrongdoing does not need to be equal between all combatants in order for the hatred, violence, and wrongdoing to be condemned.
My question is, why the world feels the need to take sides in this conflict rather than simply condemning the violence perpetrated by both sides.
Well imagine that the native Australian population, the Aboriginals decoded they wanted their land back and started murdering all the white folk and they killed the equivalent of about 5,000 people (adjusted for Australia’s population); mostly eldely and children. They restarted started a bombing campaign that threatened every inch of Australia. And they did this after ~60 years of similar actions on a smaller scale.
Would you and your countrymen submit to genocide for peace? Or would you fight back?
For you and I (USA), nations built on European Colonialism; it should be clear why that Colonialism was wrong but why it can’t be undone. Trying to correct past atrocities with a modern genocide isn’t acceptable and the last 20 years of Hamas’s rule in Gaza has shown that Genocide is all it will accept.
The West knows they messed up with the actual historical countries of the area. Too many milenia of trying to take over and cause havoc (like in 63 BC when the Romans left a few hundred people alive of the natives like the Samaritans, the Crusades, etc.). They saw what the Germans did to European Jews and saw an opportunity: “If we can’t make friends in the traditional sense, we’ll create one.”
They shipped Jews from all over the world to Palestine. As their citizens of these Western countries are either Christian or come from Christian families, all this Israel nonsense sounds vaguely correct. These countries acted like dogs. It got to the point where France even pretended to allies to Arabic countries, only to reveal it was a lie/trap.
Then the media comes in and sneakily replaces Palestinians with Hamas when it benefits Israel’s cause even though Hamas hasn’t went through elections in nearly two decades and the average age of someone from Gaza is somewhere between 14 and 18.
Israel is just a western invention to give the West an ally in the region and it worked because it all sounds vaguely biblical correct to a world where Christianity just means “I hate gays and abortions and we don’t actually need to act like Jesus who was kind of Jewish anyways.”
“War isn’t Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them - little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.” – MAS*H
Genocide
If Israel’s genocidal campaign is actually halted (likely temporarily), the lingering effects of this bombing campaign will continue to claim lives. There will be an increase in premature deaths, at least until Israel decides to complete its final solution. Weapons manufacturers and those who use their products aren’t known for “green” initiatives.
So far a lot of the news coverage on here about the israel-palestine conflict is from aljazeera. Why is that?
I would imagine because in the west there is a ton of pressure to side with Israel no matter what, to the point people are losing their jobs for showing any support for Palestine or being critical of Israels actions.
Thanks for the information. I know this conflict has been one of the most controversial and politically confusing wars ever. I guess it’s hard for people at large news sites to write about it.
And I’ve noticed their before and after photos show a before of the suburbs and any after photos showing the city. Cheap tricks. Not that I doubt the main message, but it cheapens the integrity.
In the article linked here. There is one before after and it’s a slider. It’s the same area. The photos taken from maybe one or two degrees of a different angle so things don’t line up perfectly but they line up 99%.
If you’re going to criticize them, criticize them for what they’ve done, or at least link to their disingenuous photos. It’s not in this article
Ah — that slider is a new experience for me, and it wasn’t clear that vertical bar isn’t a photo border. That thing should be marked as interactive. Kudos for the clarification.
We shouldn’t take any single news source at face value, every new source has biases, including the political environment it publishes in. The more traditional newer sources like the BBC and Reuters and AP, have the Western bias, and the West is aligned with Israel. So it’s difficult for those organizations to talk about the human toll inside of Gaza.
Al Jazeera is based in Qatar, and funded by the Qatari government. They’ve demonstrated themselves to be excellent reporters, but they have the biases of their environment as well. And some of that bias includes pro Palestinian sentiment.
Net net, the Arab language reporters are more likely to get data directly from Arab sources, Al Jazeera is more likely to have reporters inside of Palestine, and Al Jazeera has the appetite to show the human toll inside of the Gaza strip.
I can’t speak for the non-English version, but the English version of Al Jazeera is biased in what they cover, but when they do speak of things I have not noticed any blatant lies.
To the credit of the Western reporters, they’re not denying that there’s a human tragedy in Gaza, they’re just not talking about it. Are they lying? No. But they are demonstrating a massive bias.
I personally consider Al Jazeera a credible source, but a single source, and I still take my news as the aggregate of AP, the economist, Reuters, the BBC, the guardian, Al Jazeera. We can’t rely on any single organization to provide us objectivity, cuz everybody has biases. We have to synthesize an approximation of truth by what is said and not said by the various reporters
Here’s an article that showed up on Lemmy, and it talks about biases as well. The article is very biased, but it doesn’t change the fact the biases they point out are demonstrable and real. So it’s interesting to read https://www.medialens.org/2023/the-absolute-right-to-commit-war-crimes-gaza-israel-and-labour-opposition/ to me it just reinforces we have to get our news from multiple sources, with multiple biases.
Because Lemmy is just as hell-bent on making Israel look like the only bad guy in that conflict as Aljazeera is.
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Fuck Israel for trying to defend against terrorism you mean?
Just ask yourself - if Iran did this to an Israeli city ‘in defense of the people of Gaza’, who would you be saying to fuck?
I’ve been saying fuck Israel for years. They’ve been tearing innocent families out of their homes to occupy their land for their entire existence. No fucking wonder they got radicalized and fight back. It’s the same story with the US and Iran man, they helped create all the terrorists that attack them.
Did what exactly?
Look at the pictures in the link. If that was an Israeli city hit by Iran, who would be at fault? Now they are actually of Gaza. Whose fault is it in reality? If you didn’t answer Israel to one of those two questions, then you hold that Israel can do no wrong.
If no one would’ve done terrorism on October 7th, no one would do anything like you see on a photo today. And, oh, how much more would you be upset if Israel would do attacks without a warning, just like hamas does, I can’t imagine.
If you have balls to blame Israel for the existence of “kill all Jews” in Palestinians’ doctrine, you are out of your mind.
Group A is angry. It shoots missles and kills innocent civilians. Group B states “This will not stand! We must defeat group A and put an end to their killing of innocent civilians!” Group B then shoots missles, but instead of just killing group A, they kill a bunch more innocent civilians. On that last group of civilians, who is to blame for their death? In abstract it should be the ones shooting the missles.
You might be tempted to say it was group A’s fault for shooting the first batch of missles, thinking I am referring to Hamas. That is why I made up the (hopefully) hypothetical scenario that group A is Israel and group B is Iran. All I want to get across is those that shoot missles and kill innocents REGARDLESS OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES are to blame for the death they cause.
Group B is unrelated so the whole thing is unrelated.
I’m not proposing to remove all blame from Israel. But its actions are within adequate frame, and it can be investigated and held accountable. This never applies to Palestinians, they won’t be prosecuted and will proceed with terrorism if not stopped.
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You sure you want to call Israel that, while Gaza is literally controlled by terrorists who vowed to destroy Jews and have been regularly bombing Israel by unreliable missiles?
Yeah because of those same standards (such as when Israel presented a map a few months ago with no Palestine on it, insinuating there wouldn’t be Palestinians, which is ethnic cleansing)
Oh wow, a map issue. Genocide! Clearly they must have their citizens killed for it!
The Palestinians that had nothing to do with the terror attack don’t deserve to be killed either. One in the same
Hamas thinks different, apparently. If they cared about Palestinians they wouldn’t use civillan buildings to fire missiles, for example.
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Reminds me of Mariupol.
Israel is paying for these destroyed apartments, right?
Paying to knock them down or refurbish them for Israeli settlers once they’re done and shrunk Gaza. This is all the long game of Israel finally paying off. The constant stick pokes finally got a response they could use to justify the genocide they’ve always wanted.
Even more disgusting is so much of the world is doing fuck all AGAIN. So many times we’ve seen similar circumstances play out to the same end and every time those we could do something don’t.
On the contrary, they already said that once they’re done destroying whatever is left, they will stop providing anything to Gaza.
They’ll probably still keep up the air, sea and land blockades though, so good luck to anyone else trying to help.
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It seems the only solution to the conflict is the most inhumane, and both sides know this. Maybe the conflict is better than the solution.
Would it be a a final solution of sorts? Sounds familiar
They also unironically have been using “the Palestinian Question”
So damn infuriating
The problem with fascism is it works. It’s so much harder to have a representative democracy that survives, response to people’s grievances and needs… it requires a sense of community.
Wow just take that damn mask off why don’t you?
Could you elaborate? I’m not pro fascist, I’m saying being a open democracy is hard, and its tempting for people in power to default to fascist tools.
Maybe the conflict is better than the solution.
Please expound.
If only genocide can resolve the conflict, I’d be happier with the conflict as is. (Unlike all those facists downvoting my comment)
“We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of solutions, so we’ll have to genocide them”
