These third spaces don’t have to be exclusively young men lol. In fact it might be better if they aren’t given the specific topic of people we are talking about in this thread. In general an increase in community locations is a good thing, but it seemed especially so for people in the intel rabbit hole. Somewhere casual they can come out of their shells and meet people in the real world!
I honestly don’t think third spaces on their own are the answer. After all, suppose a city makes a nice park across the street from an incel’s apartment. Maybe they’ll leave their house and go there… but do you really think this socially awkward weirdo is gonna start striking up conversations with other people there? Do you think they are going to engage with others who say hello to them, if others interact with them at all? Yes, a lack of third spaces is a problem, but I don’t think it is the lynchpin. We are also less likely to visit third places when they do exist these days due to digital distractions. People seem to be more insular, less likely to introduce themselves to strangers and less likely to be open to strangers introducing themselves. And significant social anxiety and lack of social skills is seldom overcome simply by having a neutral environment.
What we really need is grassroots social movements dedicated to being friendly to strangers, reducing digital distractions, reaching out to men who feel left behind, and informing parents about the importance of proactively ensuring that their children have healthy social and emotional lives.
Honestly, it’s whether you treat each human life as important or you don’t. I don’t think those people need to be changed, they just need to look at real life instead of running away from it. But I’ll say, working as a clerk in McDonalds doesn’t sound like the greatest achievement of all time.
I honestly don’t think third spaces on their own are the answer.
And I would agree. Men in a group setting of only men will typically behave entirely differently than if you drop even a single woman into their midst. A man who is only among men will open up and behave and accept constructive criticism in ways that he will never do with even a single woman present. The change in behaviour a man exhibits in the presence of a woman is instinctual and unconscious, and is unable to be controlled or even moderated by the vast majority of men out there.
Having male-only spaces is absolutely essential to allowing men to behave as they would without the unconscious/instinctual pressure they would be subject to with a woman present.
Too bad these kinds of places are “misogynistic” in ways that women-only spaces are “not misandric”. The gender bigotry and hypocrisy in this dichotomy is blindingly overwhelming.
Probably why gaming bros became so popular. A time to hang out with “da boys” because there aren’t any other places you can do that without spending money.
I’m not saying you are categorically wrong about the benefits of male-only spaces. But I will say that the attitude and language with which you are approaching the issue is not doing you any favors.
If some friends hanging out together just wanna have a boys night because that’s what they want to do - because they like that energy for whatever reason… if that’s patriarchy… Then I’m okay with patriarchy.
Men don’t need men-only spaces. That only deepens the rift between sexes. It’s absolutely not needed. You can completely respect the difference in sexes and that difference is welcomed, all other matters are bullshit from society. What humanity needs is respectful spaces for all sexes, not division.
The easiest way to identify gender bigotry is to flip the genders in contention. If there is identical interpretations, there is no bigotry in play. If there is a massive difference in how they are each interpreted, there is a massive amount of gender bigotry in play.
“Women don’t need women-only spaces.”
That sounds totally different, doesn’t it? Almost… threatening.
Now apply this to all the women-only spaces out there, like women-only gyms. Why should women-only gyms get to exist while men-only gyms get sued out of existence? Gender bigotry.
This cascades down through the whole of society - DV shelters, shelters for single parents, initiatives of all kinds for the vulnerable and precarious, which for nearly all of them focus far more heavily, or even exclusively, on women even when they are in the extreme minority.
So let’s strive for true equality - equal opportunities, services, and support for all. And if women have their own spaces, why not men? After all, that is what “equality” means.
Except that seems to generate unfathomable rage from the female supremacists when it actually gets suggested, who do everything in their power to shame such ideas of true equality into oblivion.
I have to say, I personally have been actively seeking male-only spaces for the past year. This has nothing to do with disliking women. I like women a lot and have a lot of female friends I care deeply about. The reason comes from my end - I have things that are difficult for me to talk about that I would like to discuss in a supportive environment with other people who understand and accept my lived experience. While I can and do open up to my female friends about some things, for other things I am simply more comfortable talking to other guys - where “more comfortable” means “I might talk about it *at
all.”
Unfortunately, most male-only spaces put up significant barriers to entry, because otherwise they become magnets for right wing lunatics or the chronically depressed.
I feel like that’s more a problem of whatever specific gyms you are going to. Ones I go to have usually have signs up saying no cameras allowing people to just focus on their own workout. Regardless, the point is that if you want to help people overcome their “the world is against me, no woman wants me” mind set of an incel, there should be more spaces that let people interact with others outside of online algorithm controlled or bot account flooded social media platforms. Places to meet and converse with real people of any gender. All of a sudden they will probably realise that most people are actually nice. Most people don’t generally go around trying to make people feel shit or uncomfortable.
Imagine being the guy whose primary excuse to go to the gym is to “ogle hot women”.
Yeah, you’re a real progressive guy.
The sign of a man with experience is when he’s become sick of women’s shit.
The woman I am married to - which BTW, makes me wholly ineligible for MGTOW status - is one of the few women out there I actually want to spend time with beyond social niceties. I have zero interest in the vast majority of women out there - regardless of “hotness” - because I have come to know how women in general act and react; what their motivations are and how they approach life in general. And that just makes me wholly uninterested in them.
Don’t get me wrong, I will absolutely be polite and civil to women. I have absolutely no problem socializing with them and making them feel appreciated and valued as I would any human being, regardless of gender (or fractional thereof). I just have no interest in them as women.
These third spaces don’t have to be exclusively young men lol. In fact it might be better if they aren’t given the specific topic of people we are talking about in this thread. In general an increase in community locations is a good thing, but it seemed especially so for people in the intel rabbit hole. Somewhere casual they can come out of their shells and meet people in the real world!
I honestly don’t think third spaces on their own are the answer. After all, suppose a city makes a nice park across the street from an incel’s apartment. Maybe they’ll leave their house and go there… but do you really think this socially awkward weirdo is gonna start striking up conversations with other people there? Do you think they are going to engage with others who say hello to them, if others interact with them at all? Yes, a lack of third spaces is a problem, but I don’t think it is the lynchpin. We are also less likely to visit third places when they do exist these days due to digital distractions. People seem to be more insular, less likely to introduce themselves to strangers and less likely to be open to strangers introducing themselves. And significant social anxiety and lack of social skills is seldom overcome simply by having a neutral environment.
What we really need is grassroots social movements dedicated to being friendly to strangers, reducing digital distractions, reaching out to men who feel left behind, and informing parents about the importance of proactively ensuring that their children have healthy social and emotional lives.
Honestly, it’s whether you treat each human life as important or you don’t. I don’t think those people need to be changed, they just need to look at real life instead of running away from it. But I’ll say, working as a clerk in McDonalds doesn’t sound like the greatest achievement of all time.
And I would agree. Men in a group setting of only men will typically behave entirely differently than if you drop even a single woman into their midst. A man who is only among men will open up and behave and accept constructive criticism in ways that he will never do with even a single woman present. The change in behaviour a man exhibits in the presence of a woman is instinctual and unconscious, and is unable to be controlled or even moderated by the vast majority of men out there.
Having male-only spaces is absolutely essential to allowing men to behave as they would without the unconscious/instinctual pressure they would be subject to with a woman present.
Too bad these kinds of places are “misogynistic” in ways that women-only spaces are “not misandric”. The gender bigotry and hypocrisy in this dichotomy is blindingly overwhelming.
Probably why gaming bros became so popular. A time to hang out with “da boys” because there aren’t any other places you can do that without spending money.
I’m not saying you are categorically wrong about the benefits of male-only spaces. But I will say that the attitude and language with which you are approaching the issue is not doing you any favors.
Just to reinforce: male-only spaces are patriarchy, and there is no end to it or equality unless we end a specific sex-only space.
If some friends hanging out together just wanna have a boys night because that’s what they want to do - because they like that energy for whatever reason… if that’s patriarchy… Then I’m okay with patriarchy.
Like women-only gyms? DV shelters only for women? Shelters for homeless parents that service only mothers with children?
If that is what is needed to reach true equality, then I’m all for it.
However, I think tearing down useful gender-specific spaces is far more damaging than simply providing such spaces equally to both genders.
Men don’t need men-only spaces. That only deepens the rift between sexes. It’s absolutely not needed. You can completely respect the difference in sexes and that difference is welcomed, all other matters are bullshit from society. What humanity needs is respectful spaces for all sexes, not division.
The easiest way to identify gender bigotry is to flip the genders in contention. If there is identical interpretations, there is no bigotry in play. If there is a massive difference in how they are each interpreted, there is a massive amount of gender bigotry in play.
“Women don’t need women-only spaces.”
That sounds totally different, doesn’t it? Almost… threatening.
Now apply this to all the women-only spaces out there, like women-only gyms. Why should women-only gyms get to exist while men-only gyms get sued out of existence? Gender bigotry.
This cascades down through the whole of society - DV shelters, shelters for single parents, initiatives of all kinds for the vulnerable and precarious, which for nearly all of them focus far more heavily, or even exclusively, on women even when they are in the extreme minority.
So let’s strive for true equality - equal opportunities, services, and support for all. And if women have their own spaces, why not men? After all, that is what “equality” means.
Except that seems to generate unfathomable rage from the female supremacists when it actually gets suggested, who do everything in their power to shame such ideas of true equality into oblivion.
I have to say, I personally have been actively seeking male-only spaces for the past year. This has nothing to do with disliking women. I like women a lot and have a lot of female friends I care deeply about. The reason comes from my end - I have things that are difficult for me to talk about that I would like to discuss in a supportive environment with other people who understand and accept my lived experience. While I can and do open up to my female friends about some things, for other things I am simply more comfortable talking to other guys - where “more comfortable” means “I might talk about it *at all.”
Unfortunately, most male-only spaces put up significant barriers to entry, because otherwise they become magnets for right wing lunatics or the chronically depressed.
Most of the time it’s right wing echo chambers, places
Average age of the membership was 46. That doesn’t sound “young” to me.
Some men are just eager to have a communal workout environment that doesn’t have gym thots preening their thirst trap poses all over the place
I feel like that’s more a problem of whatever specific gyms you are going to. Ones I go to have usually have signs up saying no cameras allowing people to just focus on their own workout. Regardless, the point is that if you want to help people overcome their “the world is against me, no woman wants me” mind set of an incel, there should be more spaces that let people interact with others outside of online algorithm controlled or bot account flooded social media platforms. Places to meet and converse with real people of any gender. All of a sudden they will probably realise that most people are actually nice. Most people don’t generally go around trying to make people feel shit or uncomfortable.
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!
Imagine not wanting any hot women around.
Classic MGTOW vibes here
Imagine being the guy whose primary excuse to go to the gym is to “ogle hot women”.
Yeah, you’re a real progressive guy.
The sign of a man with experience is when he’s become sick of women’s shit.
The woman I am married to - which BTW, makes me wholly ineligible for MGTOW status - is one of the few women out there I actually want to spend time with beyond social niceties. I have zero interest in the vast majority of women out there - regardless of “hotness” - because I have come to know how women in general act and react; what their motivations are and how they approach life in general. And that just makes me wholly uninterested in them.
Don’t get me wrong, I will absolutely be polite and civil to women. I have absolutely no problem socializing with them and making them feel appreciated and valued as I would any human being, regardless of gender (or fractional thereof). I just have no interest in them as women.
How noble of you to modulate your bigotry
defensive backpeddling ensuing