I’m saying that the person in the green text is judging people for going through something they have literally no experience with.
Obviously addiction is bad, but that doesn’t mean the people who become addicted are stupid or make bad decisions. The way addiction works means there is no choice. If it was as simple as making a choice addiction wouldn’t exists.
I think the issue they’re having is why are there still young people that smoke, regardless of income, demographic, race, area, every category has some amount of young people smoking. You can’t explain them ALL away by lack of education, unideal upbringing, etc etc.
My mum always said when I was growing up she believes no one will smoke soon since we have so much education on it in school. Yet I’m 37 and teens are still starting smoking. I live in what is considered a fairly rich and well educated area. They’re not addicted before they start. They do have a choice. It is as simple as making the choice not to start. They’re not in a situation that they don’t know better.
We shouldn’t have as many people under 40, under 30, under 20 smoking as we do.
They’re not in a situation that they don’t know better.
I would like to draw your attention to this truckload of stupid shit teenagers have done despite knowing better. Let’s not underestimate the capacity of the developing mind in making bad decisions despite having all information necessary to evaluate exactly how bad the decisions are.
Thats nonsense. If there was no choice noone would ever quit anything. People need to acknowledge that bad choices got them into the addiction so they can recognize and avoid triggers while sober. Doesnt mean someone’s a bad person, we all make mistakes daily, some bigger than others.
You are right its not as simple as making a choice, but one can’t recover from an addiction without personally choosing to do so. Its essential to the process and generalizing all addicts as helpless doesnt serve anyone.
Wow, the world is so black and white! No nuance or context at all, you can just call everything like you see it. You’re so smart for being able to see the world one dimensionally. Thanks for the help 🙏
Vices are social taboos, not iron laws. And if you haven’t ever transgressed, I gotta wonder what kind of life you’re living (particularly in a society that’s puritanical in its ethics)
IMO if you go your whole life not trying drugs you’re robbing yourself of important experiences.
Everyone should known what addiction feels like, even if it’s just the slight nagging of a cigarette.
Everyone should do a psychedelic at least once, most people who have had a positive trip rank it as one of the three most important experiences of their life along with things like the birth of their child.
We owe it to ourselves to experience as much of the human experience as we can tolerate, because the future versions of ourselves will thank us for it.
I’m an active opioid user tapering down to quit. While I get what you’re saying, I don’t necessarily agree. There’s a lot of people in this world who will go off the deep end after trying any substance for the first time (I’m an example).
As for psychedelics, it can be beneficial; there’s just a lot of factors that go into whether someone should use it or not. Some people, despite the less addictive nature of LSD and psilocybin, develop a habit to regularly use regardless. Other people might be prone to mental disorders developing from just one trip.
Although I understand the sentiment, I like how my brain works and doing anything to impact it is something I find very, very not appealing. On top of that, there’s a good chance I am especially susceptible to addiction. I’d rather not tickle that particular tiger’s tail, thank you very much.
Nothing against the people who enjoy partaking; it’s just not for me.
In order to do things people need to overcome the fear of doing things, there are plenty of other great way to improve yourself in that regard if you do ever want to try new unknown experiences.
Maybe one day you will feel safe enough to give something a try, and there are even ways of temporarily altering your mental state to a lesser degree without drugs.
Despite understanding your general point, I can’t say I agree with this. I think the issue is understanding that your experience is not everyone’s experience.
Addiction isn’t a mild curiosity, it’s a disease that can and does destroy lives. The notion that “everyone should know what addiction feels like” downplays the immense suffering, loss, and trauma it causes for individuals and their families. You don’t need to burn your hand to understand fire is hot and you don’t need to become addicted to appreciate the power of compulsion, craving, or loss of control. Empathy, literature, conversation, and observation can teach that to a very high extent without the risk. To me this is like injecting something that intentionally causes cancer just to see what it’s like to be a cancer patient/survivor.
Psychedelics are powerful and not universally positive. Yes it’s true many people have profound, life-changing insights from psychedelic experiences, but others experience terrifying, traumatic, or destabilising trips. For those with underlying mental health conditions (which may be undiagnosed), a psychedelic can tip the balance in a lasting and damaging way. There’s no undo button. It’s not a one size fits all rite of passage.
I don’t believe living a rich, meaningful life is simply about ticking off extremes. It’s about integration, understanding, and self-awareness. You can live deeply and wisely without ever ingesting a substance that alters your brain chemistry. Meditation, grief, love, art, parenting, solitude, etc. There are many things that can produce life altering insights without putting your body and mind at risk.
“Experience as much of the human experience as we can tolerate” sounds noble, but some things should not be tolerated lightly. There’s a difference between pushing your boundaries to grow and deliberately dancing with danger. The idea that the future version of yourself will thank you for trying a drug might be true in some cases, but for many that future self is wishing they’d never touched it. I’ve seen it first hand.
The human experience is vast and worth exploring, but not all experiences are equally safe, wise, or necessary to live a rich and meaningful life. You couldn’t pay me any amount of money to go caving and I don’t think my life will be significantly worse having not experienced it.
Everyone should known what addiction feels like, even if it’s just the slight nagging of a cigarette.
the future versions of ourselves will thank us for it.
Sorry I’m having difficulty reconciling those two sentences. Because personally I don’t think the future version of me would like to have lung cancer, it sort of feels like it would be a detriment to my life goals.
Smoking 1 pack of cigs doesn’t give you lung cancer
You’re already engaging in dopamine loops akin to drugs when you intentionally misunderstand internet stragers in order to be indignant and dismissive twoards them.
It’s just a smaller and less satisfying squirt of dopamine than many drugs would give you.
I understand being afraid of things as a defense agaisnt trying them though, it’s a very human response
Idk about alcohol. I’m on the other end of the spectrum with that one. Reflexively loathe drinking because I associate it with feeling like shit in the morning. I usually only touch the stuff when people shove a drink into my hand.
I think I see what you’re saying. To go through addiction is to experience life from a novel perspective. If one’s goal is to experience all life has to offer, if they want to touch the very extremes of human existance, “getting an addiction” would probably go on their bucket list. It produces both highs and lows that no other experience can emulate, and has enabled you personally to grow into a wiser, more complete person. I can dig that.
I’m just not sure how many people here are ready to consider taking their own lives to that far of an extreme. Not everyone in a theme park wants to ride the most intense roller coaster, yet they still have a grand time at the park. In the same way, many people are perfectly content without touching the fringe edges of human experience… and that’s a perfectly fine and valid way to live.
Being a drug addict doesnt mean homeless on the streets. Also many people have tried hard drugs without realizing it. Adderall feels remarkably like methamphetamine. Vicodin and oxy feel very much like heroin. Benzos like Xanax are some of the most addictive substances weve created, causing seizures in those who quit cold turkey. Alcohol is still one of the most potent substances and causes numerous problems for nearly all parts of society.
I never understood alcohol being legal and promoted while all the other drugs were demonized. Its inconsistent at best.
I’m a Stoic and a Hedonist among other things, IMO i get one life and then i go back to nothing forever. I owe it to myself to fully explore my world, mind, and body to the full possible extent before i get snuffed out for eternity.
If you want to have a positive experience with something that removes your sense of control, like psychedelics, you need to not be a coward, you need to understand your emotions, you need to be capable of letting go of total control and the humility that comes with that. As well as having an understanding of your own mind and understanding what the drug will do.
You saying edgy things to my ernest comments gives you shots of dopamine, you’re being dick because you get drugs for doing it. You don’t care about bettering yourself mentally enough to notice you are a drug addict already.
Yeah you say that like it’s a character flaw.
“You’re worthless suckers have no vices”
I’m saying that the person in the green text is judging people for going through something they have literally no experience with.
Obviously addiction is bad, but that doesn’t mean the people who become addicted are stupid or make bad decisions. The way addiction works means there is no choice. If it was as simple as making a choice addiction wouldn’t exists.
I think the issue they’re having is why are there still young people that smoke, regardless of income, demographic, race, area, every category has some amount of young people smoking. You can’t explain them ALL away by lack of education, unideal upbringing, etc etc.
My mum always said when I was growing up she believes no one will smoke soon since we have so much education on it in school. Yet I’m 37 and teens are still starting smoking. I live in what is considered a fairly rich and well educated area. They’re not addicted before they start. They do have a choice. It is as simple as making the choice not to start. They’re not in a situation that they don’t know better.
We shouldn’t have as many people under 40, under 30, under 20 smoking as we do.
I would like to draw your attention to this truckload of stupid shit teenagers have done despite knowing better. Let’s not underestimate the capacity of the developing mind in making bad decisions despite having all information necessary to evaluate exactly how bad the decisions are.
Thats nonsense. If there was no choice noone would ever quit anything. People need to acknowledge that bad choices got them into the addiction so they can recognize and avoid triggers while sober. Doesnt mean someone’s a bad person, we all make mistakes daily, some bigger than others.
You are right its not as simple as making a choice, but one can’t recover from an addiction without personally choosing to do so. Its essential to the process and generalizing all addicts as helpless doesnt serve anyone.
Actually, addicts chose to be addicted when they chose to ingest addictive drugs before they were addicted. Hope this helps ♥
Absolute statement like that coming from an obvious place of smug ignorance is always entertaining.
I look forward to your debate with others in this thread.
Wow, the world is so black and white! No nuance or context at all, you can just call everything like you see it. You’re so smart for being able to see the world one dimensionally. Thanks for the help 🙏
You must be a trump voter.
Vices are social taboos, not iron laws. And if you haven’t ever transgressed, I gotta wonder what kind of life you’re living (particularly in a society that’s puritanical in its ethics)
So unless you commit a crime of some kind you are not a real person? I don’t understand what arguement you’re trying to make
This MF’ER so scared, they ain’t never even jaywalked 🤣
Jaywalking isn’t actually a crime anywhere other than the United States so no I’ve never jaywalked.
You sound like you would actually benefit from drugs lol
Loosen up ffs
I commit crimes on a daily basis. I’m skeptical of people who follow all laws without thinking. Do you really never speed while driving or jaywalk?
IMO if you go your whole life not trying drugs you’re robbing yourself of important experiences.
Everyone should known what addiction feels like, even if it’s just the slight nagging of a cigarette.
Everyone should do a psychedelic at least once, most people who have had a positive trip rank it as one of the three most important experiences of their life along with things like the birth of their child.
We owe it to ourselves to experience as much of the human experience as we can tolerate, because the future versions of ourselves will thank us for it.
I’m an active opioid user tapering down to quit. While I get what you’re saying, I don’t necessarily agree. There’s a lot of people in this world who will go off the deep end after trying any substance for the first time (I’m an example).
As for psychedelics, it can be beneficial; there’s just a lot of factors that go into whether someone should use it or not. Some people, despite the less addictive nature of LSD and psilocybin, develop a habit to regularly use regardless. Other people might be prone to mental disorders developing from just one trip.
Although I understand the sentiment, I like how my brain works and doing anything to impact it is something I find very, very not appealing. On top of that, there’s a good chance I am especially susceptible to addiction. I’d rather not tickle that particular tiger’s tail, thank you very much.
Nothing against the people who enjoy partaking; it’s just not for me.
In order to do things people need to overcome the fear of doing things, there are plenty of other great way to improve yourself in that regard if you do ever want to try new unknown experiences.
Maybe one day you will feel safe enough to give something a try, and there are even ways of temporarily altering your mental state to a lesser degree without drugs.
Despite understanding your general point, I can’t say I agree with this. I think the issue is understanding that your experience is not everyone’s experience.
Addiction isn’t a mild curiosity, it’s a disease that can and does destroy lives. The notion that “everyone should know what addiction feels like” downplays the immense suffering, loss, and trauma it causes for individuals and their families. You don’t need to burn your hand to understand fire is hot and you don’t need to become addicted to appreciate the power of compulsion, craving, or loss of control. Empathy, literature, conversation, and observation can teach that to a very high extent without the risk. To me this is like injecting something that intentionally causes cancer just to see what it’s like to be a cancer patient/survivor.
Psychedelics are powerful and not universally positive. Yes it’s true many people have profound, life-changing insights from psychedelic experiences, but others experience terrifying, traumatic, or destabilising trips. For those with underlying mental health conditions (which may be undiagnosed), a psychedelic can tip the balance in a lasting and damaging way. There’s no undo button. It’s not a one size fits all rite of passage.
I don’t believe living a rich, meaningful life is simply about ticking off extremes. It’s about integration, understanding, and self-awareness. You can live deeply and wisely without ever ingesting a substance that alters your brain chemistry. Meditation, grief, love, art, parenting, solitude, etc. There are many things that can produce life altering insights without putting your body and mind at risk.
“Experience as much of the human experience as we can tolerate” sounds noble, but some things should not be tolerated lightly. There’s a difference between pushing your boundaries to grow and deliberately dancing with danger. The idea that the future version of yourself will thank you for trying a drug might be true in some cases, but for many that future self is wishing they’d never touched it. I’ve seen it first hand.
The human experience is vast and worth exploring, but not all experiences are equally safe, wise, or necessary to live a rich and meaningful life. You couldn’t pay me any amount of money to go caving and I don’t think my life will be significantly worse having not experienced it.
You did a great job of ignoring the word “tolerate” in my comment.
You’re doing a great job of ignoring my point that many people can’t tolerate a single time.
They won’t know till they try
Sorry you had a bad trip, that’s no excuse to be permanently afraid of life or your own body and to scare others out of having important experiences.
Sorry I’m having difficulty reconciling those two sentences. Because personally I don’t think the future version of me would like to have lung cancer, it sort of feels like it would be a detriment to my life goals.
Smoking 1 pack of cigs doesn’t give you lung cancer
You’re already engaging in dopamine loops akin to drugs when you intentionally misunderstand internet stragers in order to be indignant and dismissive twoards them.
It’s just a smaller and less satisfying squirt of dopamine than many drugs would give you.
I understand being afraid of things as a defense agaisnt trying them though, it’s a very human response
Everyone already knows at least sugar. And after that, coffee and alcohol.
And social media, online shopping, phone usage or similar.
Idk about alcohol. I’m on the other end of the spectrum with that one. Reflexively loathe drinking because I associate it with feeling like shit in the morning. I usually only touch the stuff when people shove a drink into my hand.
Everyone’s owes it to themselves to do heroin once.
Just a little PCP, once.
Yeah you really have not lived until you’ve done a bit of angel dust.
This unironically
I’m saving my heroin arc for retirement
I’ll take one heroin please
I think I see what you’re saying. To go through addiction is to experience life from a novel perspective. If one’s goal is to experience all life has to offer, if they want to touch the very extremes of human existance, “getting an addiction” would probably go on their bucket list. It produces both highs and lows that no other experience can emulate, and has enabled you personally to grow into a wiser, more complete person. I can dig that.
I’m just not sure how many people here are ready to consider taking their own lives to that far of an extreme. Not everyone in a theme park wants to ride the most intense roller coaster, yet they still have a grand time at the park. In the same way, many people are perfectly content without touching the fringe edges of human experience… and that’s a perfectly fine and valid way to live.
Being a drug addict doesnt mean homeless on the streets. Also many people have tried hard drugs without realizing it. Adderall feels remarkably like methamphetamine. Vicodin and oxy feel very much like heroin. Benzos like Xanax are some of the most addictive substances weve created, causing seizures in those who quit cold turkey. Alcohol is still one of the most potent substances and causes numerous problems for nearly all parts of society.
I never understood alcohol being legal and promoted while all the other drugs were demonized. Its inconsistent at best.
I’m a Stoic and a Hedonist among other things, IMO i get one life and then i go back to nothing forever. I owe it to myself to fully explore my world, mind, and body to the full possible extent before i get snuffed out for eternity.
Just say “misery loves company”
It’s possible to have a healthy relationship with drugs.
It takes more mental fortitude and mental self-improvement than most people are willing to put in tho
Is it like that saying, “If you’re gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough”?
If you want to have a positive experience with something that removes your sense of control, like psychedelics, you need to not be a coward, you need to understand your emotions, you need to be capable of letting go of total control and the humility that comes with that. As well as having an understanding of your own mind and understanding what the drug will do.
You saying edgy things to my ernest comments gives you shots of dopamine, you’re being dick because you get drugs for doing it. You don’t care about bettering yourself mentally enough to notice you are a drug addict already.
I hope your dad sees this. You’ll finally have impressed him.
Lmao you don’t like being shown a mirror do you, drug addict?
😅
I’ve never been addicted to anything and the fact that you think addiction is virtuous is really quite pathetic.