It’s absolutely true that human error can occur, and it does happen sometimes. Of course, nobody is doing big-wall climbing with a grigri (although in Sara Al Qunaibets case there was even a grigri that the coach was able to misuse…). I still feel safer taking a fall with a belayer I trust than I do driving behind some stranger that’s driving erratically. The most dangerous part of any climb on pre-bolted route is likely the drive to the crag.
Of course, nobody is doing big-wall climbing with a grigri
What are you talking about? Pretty much everyone on big walls is carrying a gri. In addition to giving lead belays, they are more pleasant to use for top down belays, and can be useful for hauling, juggin, lowering out, rappelling, or any number of other big wall chores. Yes, they are relatively heavy, but so is the number six you are lugging up the face so you can place it once on the scary offwidth pitch.
Ok, sounds like this is my inexperience showing: I’ve only ever been on multi-pitches where we used half-ropes, so we we use what’s called a “hylsebrems” in Norwegian (the standard friction break with two holes). Regarding hauling equipment, that’s not very common here, we climb with a backpack if we need one. I’ve heard that hauling equipment is much more common in the US though.
Yeah, I guess that sounds like a better description, I’ve never really considered that there’s a significant difference between the two. Happy to learn :)
Totally agree. Feeding through a Grigri in order to lead belay necessitates disabling the autolockimg behavior of the device and creates an opportunity for a fall to the ground if the climber loses it unexpectedly. Belaying with an ATC still isn’t a replacement for vigilance, though. Catching a lead fall with minimal fall distance requires a combination of constant attention, deep understanding of the route, its cruxes, and your climber, anticipation of the fall based on your observation of the climber, and bulletproof mechanical memory of the process. Even still, runout is a thing on many routes. I would add on to your statement; the most dangerous part may be the drive to the crag (or perhaps, a scramble approach) but the second most dangerous part may well be the climb to the first draw.
Lol, wtf. Giving a non-lethal lead belay is not that intense. Literally all you have to do is keep your hand on the brake strand. To give a good belay, you need to pay a lot of attention to your climber so you don’t short rope them and can give them buttery soft catches. But making sure your climber doesn’t die consists entirely of “don’t let go of the brake strand” - and that’s pretty much it.
Yes, there are other things to do. Yes, you should always strive to be an excellent belayer. But pretty much everything you need to know and learn can be taught in a single day at the crag by a reasonably competent instructor. And after that, the main thing is to just not get complacent and do stupid shit.
I agree with you on the by and large, but wouldn’t describe belaying a lead climber as quite as demanding as you do (by all means, be vigilant at all times, someone’s life is in your hands!). You can feed out rope from a grigri without putting a thumb in the mechanism, but it’s a bit more of a hassle, and requires a bit more getting used to. I’m pretty much always belayed by my SO (who’s a much better belayer than me, and doesn’t disable the grigri when feeding) and get stressed out if someone else is belaying me and I notice that they’re disabling the grigri while feeding rope.
It’s definitely true that by far most injuries in climbing occur on the first 1-3 bolts, when it’s still possible to hit the ground if you have too much slack or a bit run out bolts. Long run outs higher up can feel sketchy, but even a >5m fall high in the wall isn’t really dangerous unless there are outcroppings or other stuff you can hit. Ankles might still take a beating though…
It’s absolutely true that human error can occur, and it does happen sometimes. Of course, nobody is doing big-wall climbing with a grigri (although in Sara Al Qunaibets case there was even a grigri that the coach was able to misuse…). I still feel safer taking a fall with a belayer I trust than I do driving behind some stranger that’s driving erratically. The most dangerous part of any climb on pre-bolted route is likely the drive to the crag.
What are you talking about? Pretty much everyone on big walls is carrying a gri. In addition to giving lead belays, they are more pleasant to use for top down belays, and can be useful for hauling, juggin, lowering out, rappelling, or any number of other big wall chores. Yes, they are relatively heavy, but so is the number six you are lugging up the face so you can place it once on the scary offwidth pitch.
Ok, sounds like this is my inexperience showing: I’ve only ever been on multi-pitches where we used half-ropes, so we we use what’s called a “hylsebrems” in Norwegian (the standard friction break with two holes). Regarding hauling equipment, that’s not very common here, we climb with a backpack if we need one. I’ve heard that hauling equipment is much more common in the US though.
It sounds like you are doing alpine multipitches, which are a different discipline from big walls.
Yeah, I guess that sounds like a better description, I’ve never really considered that there’s a significant difference between the two. Happy to learn :)
Totally agree. Feeding through a Grigri in order to lead belay necessitates disabling the autolockimg behavior of the device and creates an opportunity for a fall to the ground if the climber loses it unexpectedly. Belaying with an ATC still isn’t a replacement for vigilance, though. Catching a lead fall with minimal fall distance requires a combination of constant attention, deep understanding of the route, its cruxes, and your climber, anticipation of the fall based on your observation of the climber, and bulletproof mechanical memory of the process. Even still, runout is a thing on many routes. I would add on to your statement; the most dangerous part may be the drive to the crag (or perhaps, a scramble approach) but the second most dangerous part may well be the climb to the first draw.
Lol, wtf. Giving a non-lethal lead belay is not that intense. Literally all you have to do is keep your hand on the brake strand. To give a good belay, you need to pay a lot of attention to your climber so you don’t short rope them and can give them buttery soft catches. But making sure your climber doesn’t die consists entirely of “don’t let go of the brake strand” - and that’s pretty much it.
Yes, there are other things to do. Yes, you should always strive to be an excellent belayer. But pretty much everything you need to know and learn can be taught in a single day at the crag by a reasonably competent instructor. And after that, the main thing is to just not get complacent and do stupid shit.
I agree with you on the by and large, but wouldn’t describe belaying a lead climber as quite as demanding as you do (by all means, be vigilant at all times, someone’s life is in your hands!). You can feed out rope from a grigri without putting a thumb in the mechanism, but it’s a bit more of a hassle, and requires a bit more getting used to. I’m pretty much always belayed by my SO (who’s a much better belayer than me, and doesn’t disable the grigri when feeding) and get stressed out if someone else is belaying me and I notice that they’re disabling the grigri while feeding rope.
It’s definitely true that by far most injuries in climbing occur on the first 1-3 bolts, when it’s still possible to hit the ground if you have too much slack or a bit run out bolts. Long run outs higher up can feel sketchy, but even a >5m fall high in the wall isn’t really dangerous unless there are outcroppings or other stuff you can hit. Ankles might still take a beating though…