I don’t need any of that. All I need isa privacy-focussed ROM which allows me the ability to install MicroG in a different workspace without bundling it in the base image. I think I’m being misunderstood
Possibly, maybe probably. If you dont want to degoogle, why use /e/os? Thats basically the explicit purpose. /e/is fills the same need as any degoogled ROM but is prepackaged on fairphone devices, no need to buy a pixel in order to use graphene. If you just want android, and the ability to use microg when you want and not when you dont, just use a normal android device.
Unfortunately, if I’m to use it as my daily driver I will need to use some non-FOSS apps. Mainly the 2FA apps like the ones from MS, Okta, Cisco etc. And Google maps because OSM didn’t work for me. And some chat apps because family. Rather than having MicroG in the base system for just this handful of Big-Tech produced apps, I wanted to contain all of them in a workspace. I don’t actually care about running eOS specifically, it’s just that running GrapheneOS means buying an expensive Pixel device. I want a privacy-foscussed ROM on which I can do this
Right, I think this is where we are misommunicating.
I use my fairphone as my daily. I also have to use OKTA, and stuff. And I dont use microg for them cause they don’t talk to google. I suppose technically the apps dont use microg, just like they dont use google.
The problem you are going to run into though is that google has baked itself into android that you need something to trick android into thinking its operable.
In stock android, you COULD have a workspace that only uses microg, but considering you otherwise MUST have play services… Why?
Alternatively, you can use microg to handle all your google bullshit to sign yourself in locally and actually use the services that require google without actually signing in to google.
Frankly, it sounds more like you want an Ubuntu/Linux (not android Linux) phone or something, but I’m not able to advise on that.
The idea is to contain all non-FOSS apps in a workspace. I assume that I’ll have trouble without microg for some apps in said workspace, which is why I’m looking for a way to put microG in that workspace.
The rest of the apps will all be FOSS. Thus, I do not see a good reason to bundle MicroG in the base image. I’d like to keep all non-FOSS+Google stuff in one workspace and not have them touch the rest of my apps.
I’m assuming workspaces are akin to a “namespace” in general Linux terminology.
The problem you are going to run into though is that google has baked itself into android that you need something to trick android into thinking its operable.
In stock android, you COULD have a workspace that only uses microg, but considering you otherwise MUST have play services… Why?
What do you mean? I genuinely do not understand, I thought DeGoogled AOSP would work just fine.
There are significant portions of android that are effectively under google monopoly, in truth, if not technically in fact.
First android is a phone OS, don’t assume desktop rules really apply the same way. There’s not tons of use for a workspace here, or at least not in my personal experience. Its my phone, my phone IS my workspace.
Second, android makes the assumption that you want basic functionality like email, and internet use, and messaging, location info for mapping, etc, so all of that got coded directly in to the OS. yeah you can use Firefox but can you uni stall chrome? Can you unintstall gmail? Often the answer is no, as you aren’t the admin of your phone, the carrier is and they have deals with google.
There are attempts to work around this, AOSP is one of them, but the fact that its a thing in the first place illustrates what I’m trying to say.
Third, among those things google has an effective monopoly on is their app store. Its incredibly difficult to, as a normal person who is not especially technically inclined, to make heads or tails of fdroid, or worse to have to find your own app store.
Thus, /e/os is stuck. Package microg, or dont provide access to the google app store for their consumer focused devices, or use google play services.
Packaging microg was easily the best option from the perspective of a business that wants to sell a functional device.
As to the specifics of AOSP folk, they’re basically the arch nerds of android. I love them but I dont understand much. I do know that it does not seem as though AOSP as a ROM is widely used, and that many of the projects around deGoogled android are basically single person communities, in that one person does all the work and burns out (Linege) or are… toolbags is the term I’m going to diplomatically use. Specifically graphene where the admin wound up being a toolbag, bad enough for Louis Rossman to do a video on.
I think we are still miscommunicating, partly due to my fault.
There’s not tons of use for a workspace here, or at least not in my personal experience. Its my phone, my phone IS my workspace.
When I said “workspaces” what I meant is a “Work Profile” - you know, the kind of thing you manage with the shelter app and that companies use MDM for to manage their company-specific apps.
Second, android makes the assumption that you want basic functionality like email, and internet use, and messaging, location info for mapping, etc, so all of that got coded directly in to the OS. yeah you can use Firefox but can you uni stall chrome? Can you unintstall gmail?
Android doesn’t make these decisions, Google does. It is a common misconception that Google ships AOSP with Pixel. They do not.
Third, among those things google has an effective monopoly on is their app store. Its incredibly difficult to, as a normal person who is not especially technically inclined, to make heads or tails of fdroid, or worse to have to find your own app store.
If you don’t want Google apps, either install a custom ROM or get root access (I hear KernelSU is making great progress). I don’t think your point is valid, you’re talking about stock ROMs. I’m not. And God help people who buy from a carrier, that’s probably the worst way to get a mobile phone.
Don’t want to use PlayStore? Use Accrescent + Obtanium + F-Droid + Aurora (preferably in that order). There is no longer a reason to have playstore installed on your device unless one of these FOSS projects die or you paid for apps from the playstore before. I’m perfectly comfortable with using these instead of the pre installed spyware they ship me.
There are attempts to work around this, AOSP is one of them, but the fact that its a thing in the first place illustrates what I’m trying to say.
AOSP is not a workaround, it’s what Google bases their OS on (what they ship with the Pixel) along with other manufacturers. Yes, Google writes a lot of AOSP but it is FOSS and available to anyone. Otherwise Huawei wouldn’t be able to make Android devices at all.
Thus, /e/os is stuck. Package microg, or dont provide access to the google app store for their consumer focused devices, or use google play services.
eOS is FOSS. Murena is the business. And no, I don’t agree - they could have at least given us an option (like LineageOS does) to either have microG or not have it in the base image. This is not a hard thing to do.
I suppose I can just rip MicroG out and only install it in a “Work Profile” but not having to do that would be a great QoL upgrade.
I do know that it does not seem as though AOSP as a ROM is widely used
Giving credit where it is due: due to Google’s efforts in making project Treble compatibility mandatory along with further enhancements to the Android software ecosystem, you can technically run AOSP’s (or really, any ROM’s) GSI on any phone you can unlock the bootloader to. That is only possible on the Pixels, older OnePluses, some Motorolas and some Nothing Phones in the US, excluding Murena’s phones and some other niche manufacturers. There are caveats due to proprietary firmware but that’s where we are right now.
In conclusion: I would have liked an eOS without MicroG pre-installed. I suppose I could rip it out but I’m afraid I’ll miss some artifacts. But that’s a minor worry. I’m sorry for the long note.
How authors of software projects behave has never been my concern when evaluating their projects technically. I’m no expert, but I’ll pay tribute to Gr******OS for everything that they have done for the community; hardened Malloc by itself is a great advancement in the Linux kernel. Unfortunate that two people like them at the forefront of FOSS have disagreements, but I do not care. I hope both of them live long and healthy and bring FOSS even greater achievements.
I don’t need any of that. All I need isa privacy-focussed ROM which allows me the ability to install MicroG in a different workspace without bundling it in the base image. I think I’m being misunderstood
Possibly, maybe probably. If you dont want to degoogle, why use /e/os? Thats basically the explicit purpose. /e/is fills the same need as any degoogled ROM but is prepackaged on fairphone devices, no need to buy a pixel in order to use graphene. If you just want android, and the ability to use microg when you want and not when you dont, just use a normal android device.
Unfortunately, if I’m to use it as my daily driver I will need to use some non-FOSS apps. Mainly the 2FA apps like the ones from MS, Okta, Cisco etc. And Google maps because OSM didn’t work for me. And some chat apps because family. Rather than having MicroG in the base system for just this handful of Big-Tech produced apps, I wanted to contain all of them in a workspace. I don’t actually care about running eOS specifically, it’s just that running GrapheneOS means buying an expensive Pixel device. I want a privacy-foscussed ROM on which I can do this
Right, I think this is where we are misommunicating.
I use my fairphone as my daily. I also have to use OKTA, and stuff. And I dont use microg for them cause they don’t talk to google. I suppose technically the apps dont use microg, just like they dont use google.
The problem you are going to run into though is that google has baked itself into android that you need something to trick android into thinking its operable.
In stock android, you COULD have a workspace that only uses microg, but considering you otherwise MUST have play services… Why?
Alternatively, you can use microg to handle all your google bullshit to sign yourself in locally and actually use the services that require google without actually signing in to google.
Frankly, it sounds more like you want an Ubuntu/Linux (not android Linux) phone or something, but I’m not able to advise on that.
I’m a bit confused.
The idea is to contain all non-FOSS apps in a workspace. I assume that I’ll have trouble without microg for some apps in said workspace, which is why I’m looking for a way to put microG in that workspace.
The rest of the apps will all be FOSS. Thus, I do not see a good reason to bundle MicroG in the base image. I’d like to keep all non-FOSS+Google stuff in one workspace and not have them touch the rest of my apps.
I’m assuming workspaces are akin to a “namespace” in general Linux terminology.
What do you mean? I genuinely do not understand, I thought DeGoogled AOSP would work just fine.
There are significant portions of android that are effectively under google monopoly, in truth, if not technically in fact.
First android is a phone OS, don’t assume desktop rules really apply the same way. There’s not tons of use for a workspace here, or at least not in my personal experience. Its my phone, my phone IS my workspace.
Second, android makes the assumption that you want basic functionality like email, and internet use, and messaging, location info for mapping, etc, so all of that got coded directly in to the OS. yeah you can use Firefox but can you uni stall chrome? Can you unintstall gmail? Often the answer is no, as you aren’t the admin of your phone, the carrier is and they have deals with google.
There are attempts to work around this, AOSP is one of them, but the fact that its a thing in the first place illustrates what I’m trying to say.
Third, among those things google has an effective monopoly on is their app store. Its incredibly difficult to, as a normal person who is not especially technically inclined, to make heads or tails of fdroid, or worse to have to find your own app store.
Thus, /e/os is stuck. Package microg, or dont provide access to the google app store for their consumer focused devices, or use google play services.
Packaging microg was easily the best option from the perspective of a business that wants to sell a functional device.
As to the specifics of AOSP folk, they’re basically the arch nerds of android. I love them but I dont understand much. I do know that it does not seem as though AOSP as a ROM is widely used, and that many of the projects around deGoogled android are basically single person communities, in that one person does all the work and burns out (Linege) or are… toolbags is the term I’m going to diplomatically use. Specifically graphene where the admin wound up being a toolbag, bad enough for Louis Rossman to do a video on.
I think we are still miscommunicating, partly due to my fault.
When I said “workspaces” what I meant is a “Work Profile” - you know, the kind of thing you manage with the shelter app and that companies use MDM for to manage their company-specific apps.
Android doesn’t make these decisions, Google does. It is a common misconception that Google ships AOSP with Pixel. They do not.
If you don’t want Google apps, either install a custom ROM or get root access (I hear KernelSU is making great progress). I don’t think your point is valid, you’re talking about stock ROMs. I’m not. And God help people who buy from a carrier, that’s probably the worst way to get a mobile phone.
Don’t want to use PlayStore? Use Accrescent + Obtanium + F-Droid + Aurora (preferably in that order). There is no longer a reason to have playstore installed on your device unless one of these FOSS projects die or you paid for apps from the playstore before. I’m perfectly comfortable with using these instead of the pre installed spyware they ship me.
AOSP is not a workaround, it’s what Google bases their OS on (what they ship with the Pixel) along with other manufacturers. Yes, Google writes a lot of AOSP but it is FOSS and available to anyone. Otherwise Huawei wouldn’t be able to make Android devices at all.
eOS is FOSS. Murena is the business. And no, I don’t agree - they could have at least given us an option (like LineageOS does) to either have microG or not have it in the base image. This is not a hard thing to do.
I suppose I can just rip MicroG out and only install it in a “Work Profile” but not having to do that would be a great QoL upgrade.
Giving credit where it is due: due to Google’s efforts in making project Treble compatibility mandatory along with further enhancements to the Android software ecosystem, you can technically run AOSP’s (or really, any ROM’s) GSI on any phone you can unlock the bootloader to. That is only possible on the Pixels, older OnePluses, some Motorolas and some Nothing Phones in the US, excluding Murena’s phones and some other niche manufacturers. There are caveats due to proprietary firmware but that’s where we are right now.
In conclusion: I would have liked an eOS without MicroG pre-installed. I suppose I could rip it out but I’m afraid I’ll miss some artifacts. But that’s a minor worry. I’m sorry for the long note.
How authors of software projects behave has never been my concern when evaluating their projects technically. I’m no expert, but I’ll pay tribute to Gr******OS for everything that they have done for the community; hardened Malloc by itself is a great advancement in the Linux kernel. Unfortunate that two people like them at the forefront of FOSS have disagreements, but I do not care. I hope both of them live long and healthy and bring FOSS even greater achievements.