Technically, yes, on paper, they do expire, gets cancelled and renewed every 2-3 years.
In practice, no. They can’t not be renewed. If the employees don’t accept the agreement there will be a strike, and if the employers don’t accept the agreement they can make a lock-out. If the strike or lock-out leads nowhere, and society comes to a halt, the government can sign a law to require the work to resume on previous terms.
The individual employer has no more say in the negotiations than an individual employee. The negotiations happen between the employer union and the employee union.
Keep in mind that some companies actually want to have a union agreement.
It’s really only the most unprofessionally run and privately owned companies who believe they can somehow save money from not having a proper agreement with their employees.
Professionel companies focus on making money instead of wasting resources fighting their own employees.
If the strike or lock-out leads nowhere, and society comes to a halt
Hold up, what if the strike leads nowhere and society doesn’t grind to a halt? Because the strike is ineffective, because the union lost most of it’s members because of pay incentives to leave the union?
I believe you missed the part about how the employers negotiate. They don’t. Their union does.
A single employer can pay all the money it wants to its own employees to make them quit the union, but the employer is still bound by the agreement that is made on their behalf by all the other companies in the same employer union.
They will never be able to agree to pay off an entire sector to do what you suggest, because these companies are competitors.
Unlike the businesses that are competing in a race to the bottom by lowering wages, the companies that have union agreements are competing in a race to attract the best employees. It’s not uncommon for businesses to pay more or give better terms than the union agreement describes. That is their edge against their competitors.
The only businesses interested in “escaping” the minimum pay are the unsuccesful bottom feeders.
They will never be able to agree to pay off an entire sector to do what you suggest, because these companies are competitors.
That “never” is a pretty big claim. You could just as easily argue that since workers are competing against each other for the same jobs, they would “never” form together into unions, or choose to go on strike in solidarity with others instead of scabbing for an individual pay raise. Class consciousness works both ways, just as workers can benefit more from working together with each other, so too can companies. This is especially true in cases of monopolization (or near-monopolozation), when there are only a handful of companies that would have to coordinate.
Unlike the businesses that are competing in a race to the bottom by lowering wages, the companies that have union agreements are competing in a race to attract the best employees.
Wages are not just determined by the value a worker contributes to the company but also by the power that the company and the workers hold relative to each other. If this were not the case, then there’s be no reason to have unions at all.
Even if the most skilled/desired candidates are able to shop around, there will also always be less skilled/desired candidates who don’t have the same individual bargaining power.
The union contract covers the business license generally, so long as that exists the It’s a union shop. They would have to shutdown or mutually enter union termination which happens but it’s incredibly rare. They get renegotiated but generally no one is going to accept less and the company can’t go around the contract to cut pay, they can however provide incentive not to join.
Legit, not answering your questions isn’t trolling, asking questions you should find out on your own is trolling. Making dumb comments about shit you clearly don’t understand is trolling. Go back to .ml or bother to research the subject you’re all worked up over.
They get renegotiated but generally no one is going to accept less
This is fundamentally not how anything works. The contract is determined by the relative power between the company and the union. If the union refuses to accept the company’s offer, then their only recourse is stuff like going on strike - and if they don’t have enough members for that to be a credible threat (because they’ve all been bought off) then yes, they will accept lower pay because they will have no other option.
This is the first thing resembling a real answer you’ve given me (despite being completely wrong) after like 20 comments of pure evasion and trolling.
Not until everyone leaves the union to get extra pay and the union loses all its bargaining power.
This doesn’t even make sense.
What part of it doesn’t make sense?
In my case, even that wouldn’t matter. The only way for an employer to get out of a union agreement is to shut down the business completely.
Your union agreements last until the end of time and never get renegotiated?
It’s a union shop on Union contract. Again you just don’t understand basic facts of life you should have learned in civics.
I’ll ask again, since you comletely ignored the question: so their contracts never expire and never get renegotiated?
Technically, yes, on paper, they do expire, gets cancelled and renewed every 2-3 years.
In practice, no. They can’t not be renewed. If the employees don’t accept the agreement there will be a strike, and if the employers don’t accept the agreement they can make a lock-out. If the strike or lock-out leads nowhere, and society comes to a halt, the government can sign a law to require the work to resume on previous terms.
The individual employer has no more say in the negotiations than an individual employee. The negotiations happen between the employer union and the employee union.
Keep in mind that some companies actually want to have a union agreement. It’s really only the most unprofessionally run and privately owned companies who believe they can somehow save money from not having a proper agreement with their employees.
Professionel companies focus on making money instead of wasting resources fighting their own employees.
Hold up, what if the strike leads nowhere and society doesn’t grind to a halt? Because the strike is ineffective, because the union lost most of it’s members because of pay incentives to leave the union?
I believe you missed the part about how the employers negotiate. They don’t. Their union does. A single employer can pay all the money it wants to its own employees to make them quit the union, but the employer is still bound by the agreement that is made on their behalf by all the other companies in the same employer union. They will never be able to agree to pay off an entire sector to do what you suggest, because these companies are competitors. Unlike the businesses that are competing in a race to the bottom by lowering wages, the companies that have union agreements are competing in a race to attract the best employees. It’s not uncommon for businesses to pay more or give better terms than the union agreement describes. That is their edge against their competitors. The only businesses interested in “escaping” the minimum pay are the unsuccesful bottom feeders.
That “never” is a pretty big claim. You could just as easily argue that since workers are competing against each other for the same jobs, they would “never” form together into unions, or choose to go on strike in solidarity with others instead of scabbing for an individual pay raise. Class consciousness works both ways, just as workers can benefit more from working together with each other, so too can companies. This is especially true in cases of monopolization (or near-monopolozation), when there are only a handful of companies that would have to coordinate.
Wages are not just determined by the value a worker contributes to the company but also by the power that the company and the workers hold relative to each other. If this were not the case, then there’s be no reason to have unions at all.
Even if the most skilled/desired candidates are able to shop around, there will also always be less skilled/desired candidates who don’t have the same individual bargaining power.
The union contract covers the business license generally, so long as that exists the It’s a union shop. They would have to shutdown or mutually enter union termination which happens but it’s incredibly rare. They get renegotiated but generally no one is going to accept less and the company can’t go around the contract to cut pay, they can however provide incentive not to join.
Legit, not answering your questions isn’t trolling, asking questions you should find out on your own is trolling. Making dumb comments about shit you clearly don’t understand is trolling. Go back to .ml or bother to research the subject you’re all worked up over.
This is fundamentally not how anything works. The contract is determined by the relative power between the company and the union. If the union refuses to accept the company’s offer, then their only recourse is stuff like going on strike - and if they don’t have enough members for that to be a credible threat (because they’ve all been bought off) then yes, they will accept lower pay because they will have no other option.
This is the first thing resembling a real answer you’ve given me (despite being completely wrong) after like 20 comments of pure evasion and trolling.
So yup just not arguing in good faith, go back to .ml with your trolly bullshit baby boo.