I have a custom creature card in my cube. It’s a 0/4 with the text: “Rubblebelt Rioters gets +X/+0, where X is the greatest power among creatures.”
If it’s the only creature in play, it’s a 0/4. If it’s in play with a 1/1, then it’s a 1/4. Easy so far.
What happens if it’s the only creature in play and it has a +1/+1 counter on it? Is it a 1/5? Does it see that the greatest power is 1, so it gives itself +1/+0, then +2/+0, +4/+0 ad infinitum?
I don’t know of any real card with a similar static ability to check the rulings for.
Since you describe it as a constant modifier rather than a triggered ability like all of the similar cards i could find i would say this sounds like a Layers deal. Layers are the order in which constant effects are applied and I personally don’t know enough to say for sure, but if you start by looking up MTG Rules Layers that should be a solid starting point.
As you say, layers deal with the order that effects are applied but not how many times to apply the same effect. I think the real answer is that the ability doesn’t work when worded this way within the official rules…
Right, thats likely why all of the similar cards i could find on a search were triggered abilities. But, if you go through all of the layers in order then the resulting power after 1 pass will stay that value until something else changes the game-state and causes them to recheck since the +X/+0 will have already been applied.
Nice! I just used this same effect on a card for my custom cube! There exist NO cards in mtg that perform this effect on themselves passively. It is always found either as an activated ability or it refers to ‘other creatures’. So yeah, I don’t believe this works because of the infinite self reference issues you describe.
“Highest among other creatures” is probably the simplest fix.
Ah, sadly it’s a redacted cube so I can only take away words from existing cards rather than adding my own. Someone found this problem last time we were playing, so we decided as a group that it probably has infinite power now. Shame there’s no official answer.
Thanks for the input :)
Ok, as always with layers, I might misunderstand something, but I believe the creature would stay a 1/5 with a +1/+1 counter (not even a 2/5)
From what I understand:
- 7c is the layer where the power-changing continuous effects take place
- 7d is the layer where counter-based power changing occurs
So your ability applies at 7c, and probably can’t ever see counters
Why ever? Well, again if I understand correctly, layers check resets everything each “loop”. This is why blood moon still applies when you remove its rule text, because each layer check, it applies the type change before the ability removing, rendering the abiliy removing effectively useless
This doesn’t apply when this kind of effect are resolved (trigger, activation and cast), because every layers where already checked before, as the effect is not using the layers itself.
Is it worded like that on any real mtg creatures? If so, check rulings on that creature. If not, maybe that’s why 😉
I couldn’t think of any. The real Rubblebelt Rioters has a trigger at the start of combat, and something with a static ability like Tarmogoyf never references itself that I’m aware of. I don’t think there is an official answer (because the ability doesn’t work when it’s worded this way) but I don’t know everything about Magic
You’ll want to add “not named rubblebelt rioters” to the rules text.
That would be a good fix, but sadly I can’t. It’s a redacted cube, so I can only redact words from existing cards and not add more words
Oh that’s fun, in that case leave it and watch the game explode.
@Worx generally it would exclude itself, or exclude all other creatures with X name, in order to avoid this runaway situation
Yes, sadly that’s not possible from my cube. Still, it’s the first time it’s come up in around three years of playing the cube so hopefully no-one tries this again haha
