This makes me sad because I assume Hector is deeply demoralized. I’ve seen him as a hero since he started the Asahi project. I know nothing about him other than working on Asahi, Asahi worked when I installed it last year, and this blow-up last week or so and now. Maybe he’s a terrible person. I just see his technical work (and all the other devs contributing to the project) and I know this would make me lose steam if I were in his shoes.
He didn’t even say anything wrong. In all that discussion and whole thread linus could’ve said anything useful for either side or to help things move forward but chose to do nothing besides saying 2 things and they didn’t address any of the concerns. He just contributed to the problem. One could’ve said that he didn’t read or something, but no, he came, read everything, all the technical concerns, all the needs from the stockholders involved and decided not to address the elephant in the room!
I would’ve done much worse than hector and call half of the people there names.
Really people should go to the kernel threads and read all of them carefully and the links to the social media and read them careful too, it’s not too big.
Anyway what matters is apple/arm work will continue out of the kernel tree, downstream.
And this could basically also lead the whole rust effort go the same direction by all the betweens lines we can understand in the whole discussion. Basically there are enough people that feel that no other language other than C should ever be in the kernel. Doesn’t matter if it’s rust or not. No other. Even if some people are supportive, there are enough in key positions that will fight to not include it.
Linus shouldn’t have to get involved at all. Each part of the Kernel should be handled independently by the maintainers. Linus responding publicly to outside forces is fine but once he has to step in to handle public fights between individuals who are supposed to work together it is a problem.
Linux staying C focused is a valid thing to do. It is very hard to get folks to contribute to the kernel and if you cut out anyone who doesn’t know Rust, a language with at best 5% the adoption rate of C, you will run into spots where sections of the kernel are unmaintained due to no willing and qualified person covering it.
Adding Rust based functionality and support is great. Changing APIs to require maintainers to learn Rust to continue to maintain the code they are experts in is unacceptable.
Really people should go to the kernel threads and read all of them carefully and the links to the social media and read them careful too, it’s not too big.
No, people who aren’t involved with the kernel should not get involved with this, that’s Torvald’s point. You can’t let a serious project like Linux be affected by social media uproar, let the developers sort it out amongst themselves.
This makes me sad because I assume Hector is deeply demoralized. I’ve seen him as a hero since he started the Asahi project. I know nothing about him other than working on Asahi, Asahi worked when I installed it last year, and this blow-up last week or so and now. Maybe he’s a terrible person. I just see his technical work (and all the other devs contributing to the project) and I know this would make me lose steam if I were in his shoes.
He didn’t even say anything wrong. In all that discussion and whole thread linus could’ve said anything useful for either side or to help things move forward but chose to do nothing besides saying 2 things and they didn’t address any of the concerns. He just contributed to the problem. One could’ve said that he didn’t read or something, but no, he came, read everything, all the technical concerns, all the needs from the stockholders involved and decided not to address the elephant in the room!
I would’ve done much worse than hector and call half of the people there names.
Really people should go to the kernel threads and read all of them carefully and the links to the social media and read them careful too, it’s not too big.
Anyway what matters is apple/arm work will continue out of the kernel tree, downstream.
And this could basically also lead the whole rust effort go the same direction by all the betweens lines we can understand in the whole discussion. Basically there are enough people that feel that no other language other than C should ever be in the kernel. Doesn’t matter if it’s rust or not. No other. Even if some people are supportive, there are enough in key positions that will fight to not include it.
Linus shouldn’t have to get involved at all. Each part of the Kernel should be handled independently by the maintainers. Linus responding publicly to outside forces is fine but once he has to step in to handle public fights between individuals who are supposed to work together it is a problem.
Linux staying C focused is a valid thing to do. It is very hard to get folks to contribute to the kernel and if you cut out anyone who doesn’t know Rust, a language with at best 5% the adoption rate of C, you will run into spots where sections of the kernel are unmaintained due to no willing and qualified person covering it.
Adding Rust based functionality and support is great. Changing APIs to require maintainers to learn Rust to continue to maintain the code they are experts in is unacceptable.
No, people who aren’t involved with the kernel should not get involved with this, that’s Torvald’s point. You can’t let a serious project like Linux be affected by social media uproar, let the developers sort it out amongst themselves.